I'm channel surfing and came upon Oral Roberts/Saint Louis. For some reason (Probably its Jesuit roots and location in a major Midwestern city) it surprises me they're not in the Big East. Was this ever discussed?

They are one of the 3-4 more talked about additions for the BigEast to get to 12 schools. The others being: Dayton, VCU and Richmond. I don't know the status of any of them - or even if they are planning on going to 12 anymore (or if they ever were "officially"), but that was the (poster) talk back when they added Xavier and Creighton.

(11-21-2013 09:40 PM)mnjayhawk Wrote:  I'm channel surfing and came upon Oral Roberts/Saint Louis. For some reason (Probably its Jesuit roots and location in a major Midwestern city) it surprises me they're not in the Big East. Was this ever discussed?

Yes. They are considered to be a lock if/when the Big East goes to 12. The other is a more open question--VCU and Dayton as the most likely options, with Richmond as a possibility.

They're locked into spot #11.

(11-21-2013 09:46 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:40 PM)mnjayhawk Wrote:  I'm channel surfing and came upon Oral Roberts/Saint Louis. For some reason (Probably its Jesuit roots and location in a major Midwestern city) it surprises me they're not in the Big East. Was this ever discussed?

Yes. They are considered to be a lock if/when the Big East goes to 12. The other is a more open question--VCU and Dayton as the most likely options, with Richmond as a possibility.

So basically nothings changed. The BE can't decide on a 12th.

They need the St. Louis market to tie in Creighton, Marquette, DePaul. I would also pick up WSU as well. That would create a strong West wing with Butler and Xavier. Add Dayton, VCU and or Richmond to tie up the Best of the rest.

(11-21-2013 10:22 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  So basically nothings changed. The BE can't decide on a 12th.

LOL

(11-21-2013 10:55 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I would also pick up WSU as well. That would create a strong West wing with Butler and Xavier. Add Dayton, VCU and or Richmond to tie up the Best of the rest.

BE will not take Wichita State anytime soon. It will take more -- a lot more -- than one Final 4 run to make the BE change on that.

Well if the Big East wants to expand then the 2 likely candidates IMO would be St. Louis and VCU. I don't know if they will expand unlike in football there is no need to move to 12 to host a conference tournament. The only reason to expand is TV and the almighty dollar, and with the STL market and the Virginia base market there will be plenty of TV sets to sell which should bring in a nice bump into what the BE is getting now per team. Who knows, but STL & VCU is my picks.

I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

A very interesting point from earlier in the negotiations has to do with Fox.

It was said that since FS1 was already on the basic tier in STL, that would be to the detriment of SLU because FS1 is already in that market. Not sure how accurate that is, but a couple people have said it. SLU has to keep winning, because the "catch" with the Billikens is that no one knows if our recent success is totally dependent on the great Rick Majerus.

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

Indianapolis (NCAA). Trying to win brownie points at selection time.

(11-22-2013 01:19 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler

Indianapolis (NCAA). Trying to win brownie points at selection time.

u really think thats the reason?

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

Thought it was strange as well, but Butler helps with short term credibility for a league trying to gain traction and build a brand. It makes sense if Butler can extend it's relevance another few years even if they fade away after that.

(11-22-2013 12:14 AM)LouPower Wrote:  A very interesting point from earlier in the negotiations has to do with Fox.

It was said that since FS1 was already on the basic tier in STL, that would be to the detriment of SLU because FS1 is already in that market. Not sure how accurate that is, but a couple people have said it. SLU has to keep winning, because the "catch" with the Billikens is that no one knows if our recent success is totally dependent on the great Rick Majerus.

True FS1 is in the St. Louis market but that doesn't mean anyone's watching. St.Louis added to the BE would change the number of viewers drastically if The local school is a BE member.

(11-22-2013 08:44 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:14 AM)LouPower Wrote:  A very interesting point from earlier in the negotiations has to do with Fox.

It was said that since FS1 was already on the basic tier in STL, that would be to the detriment of SLU because FS1 is already in that market. Not sure how accurate that is, but a couple people have said it. SLU has to keep winning, because the "catch" with the Billikens is that no one knows if our recent success is totally dependent on the great Rick Majerus.

True FS1 is in the St. Louis market but that doesn't mean anyone's watching. St.Louis added to the BE would change the number of viewers drastically if The local school is a BE member.

I thought FS1 was on pretty much nationwide right? Isn't it in 80 million homes or something?

From the A-10 side of things, it seems like the A-10 offices know St. Louis is as good as gone. Adding Davidson and GMU instead of trying to bridge the gap to St. Louis some how.

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

Your kidding right? Butler who has had a string of successful coaches even before Stevens took over. In Indianapolis which is a basketball crazed city in a basketball crazed state. Good fan base, matches the rest of the conference in size and school type, good BBall history.

Why WOULDN'T they take Butler? Passing them by for who exactly? Who should they have taken over Butler? C'mon, asking that question is just silly.

Butler were a known quantity long before those two Final Four runs. Most college basketball fans that were paying attention knew about that school and how much they cared about the sport.

I think that Butler is a decent addition - not bad, not great. I think that they'll be a mid-table team in the Big East (20-22 wins, something like that).

(11-22-2013 12:30 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Butler were a known quantity long before those two Final Four runs. Most college basketball fans that were paying attention knew about that school and how much they cared about the sport.

I think that Butler is a decent addition - not bad, not great. I think that they'll be a mid-table team in the Big East (20-22 wins, something like that).

Also when they were invited Stevens was still there. It took one of the best NBA franchises to pry him away from the bulldogs.

(11-22-2013 12:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:30 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Butler were a known quantity long before those two Final Four runs. Most college basketball fans that were paying attention knew about that school and how much they cared about the sport.

I think that Butler is a decent addition - not bad, not great. I think that they'll be a mid-table team in the Big East (20-22 wins, something like that).

Also when they were invited Stevens was still there. It took one of the best NBA franchises to pry him away from the bulldogs.

...well, duh. You can win a national title out of the Big East - so if you like your situation, why leave? There are about 7-8 conferences (from the 30+ in Div. I) that can realistically be a launching pad for a title run. You and I both know who they are without even saying them...

The Butler job is a very good coaching job to have:

1. Big East
2. Modest expectations from a realistic and respectful fanbase
3. Basketball-first
4. Indianapolis
5. Recent history shows that "it can be done here"

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 2007, Last Champ Game 198
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.