(11-21-2013 09:43 PM)nert Wrote:  They are one of the 3-4 more talked about additions for the BigEast to get to 12 schools. The others being: Dayton, VCU and Richmond. I don't know the status of any of them - or even if they are planning on going to 12 anymore (or if they ever were "officially"), but that was the (poster) talk back when they added Xavier and Creighton.

I hope the AAC adds any school of that group (St Louis, VCU, Dayton, Richmond) that the Big East passes on. VCU is especially attractive because they are so similar to the other AAC schools and are located reasonably close to several current members.

(11-22-2013 12:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 1985
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.

What are you talking about? Gtown went to the final four just a few years ago. The Big East has 4 teams who went to a FF in the last 10 years.

(11-22-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 1985
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.

What are you talking about? Gtown went to the final four just a few years ago. The Big East has 4 teams who went to a FF in the last 10 years.

You are right - that should have been last Champ Game Appearance.

10 years is a long time ago for 18 year olds

(11-22-2013 12:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 1985
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.

What are you talking about? Gtown went to the final four just a few years ago. The Big East has 4 teams who went to a FF in the last 10 years.

You are right - that should have been last Champ Game Appearance.

10 years is a long time ago for 18 year olds

It's a lot better than most conferences.

I think that Xavier (OH) is going to be a national contender now that they're in an excellent basketball league.

They looked pretty strong and balanced on FS1 a few nights ago. I think that they can win the whole league this season.

(11-22-2013 01:07 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 1985
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.

What are you talking about? Gtown went to the final four just a few years ago. The Big East has 4 teams who went to a FF in the last 10 years.

You are right - that should have been last Champ Game Appearance.

10 years is a long time ago for 18 year olds

It's a lot better than most conferences.

My post was in reference to the claim that Butler was a bad invite for the Big East. Just pointing out that outside of a few teams, the C7 haven't made a lot of noise recently.

(11-22-2013 01:13 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I think that Xavier (OH) is going to be a national contender now that they're in an excellent basketball league.

They looked pretty strong and balanced on FS1 a few nights ago. I think that they can win the whole league this season.

I am not a believer in their coach. I think they are a coach away from making any significant noise again.

(11-22-2013 01:19 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 01:13 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I think that Xavier (OH) is going to be a national contender now that they're in an excellent basketball league.

They looked pretty strong and balanced on FS1 a few nights ago. I think that they can win the whole league this season.

I am not a believer in their coach. I think they are a coach away from making any significant noise again.

Fair enough, but the Big East isn't having a great year.

Georgetown and Marquette are in really bad form right now. Creighton have some scary offensive firepower - but that team looked unbalanced when I saw them play against Saint Joseph's. I think that road games in the Big East will knock them back a bit - their defense can get a bit funky at times. Butler, St. John's, and Providence have all done a satisfactory job - but do they have the talent to REALLY make a run in league play? Providence has a decent win against BC - I think that they could really be the sleeper this season. The other two from those three are bubble teams until they show otherwise.

I think that this could be Xavier's year.

(11-22-2013 01:13 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 01:07 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 1985
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.

What are you talking about? Gtown went to the final four just a few years ago. The Big East has 4 teams who went to a FF in the last 10 years.

You are right - that should have been last Champ Game Appearance.

10 years is a long time ago for 18 year olds

It's a lot better than most conferences.

My post was in reference to the claim that Butler was a bad invite for the Big East. Just pointing out that outside of a few teams, the C7 haven't made a lot of noise recently.

From the C7, 3 out of 7 made a F4 in the last 10 years. Thats almost half of the C7.

(11-22-2013 01:07 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 12:05 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I kinda wonder why the Big East took a flash in the pan like Butler and why other small time one time programs like VCU are considered candidates.

If Butler makes it to the Final Four again in the next 50 years I will be shocked. They have a two year history and no longer have the coach that did it.

That's funny.

Let's look at the C-7

DePaul - hasn't been to tourney since 2004, Last S16 in 1989
Providence - 2004 last appearance, last F4 in 87, never in Champ Game
Seton Hall - 2006 last appearance, last F4 1989
St. Johns - 2011 last appearance, 2000 last win (last seconds over NAU - I was there), last F4 1985
Georgetown - last Final four - 1985
Villanova - last Final Four - 2009, Last Champ Game - 1985
Marquette - Last Final Four - 2003, Last Champ Game - 1977


Big East needed Butler, Xavier and Creighton to bring current respectability to the league.


BTW - this season marks the 30th anniversary of Houston's last NCAA tourney win.

What are you talking about? Gtown went to the final four just a few years ago. The Big East has 4 teams who went to a FF in the last 10 years.

You are right - that should have been last Champ Game Appearance.

10 years is a long time ago for 18 year olds

It's a lot better than most conferences.

Only 4-5 conferences at most can say they've had the recent tradition of the BE in hoops.

Would like to see how Butler does in the Big East.

They were OK in last year's A-10. Still, having big tourney runs is never a negative.

SLU hired Rick Majerus a couple years too late, and he passed way too early.

i'm convinced if Majerus hadn't passed away, SLU is in the Big East right now.

(11-21-2013 10:22 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:46 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:40 PM)mnjayhawk Wrote:  I'm channel surfing and came upon Oral Roberts/Saint Louis. For some reason (Probably its Jesuit roots and location in a major Midwestern city) it surprises me they're not in the Big East. Was this ever discussed?

Yes. They are considered to be a lock if/when the Big East goes to 12. The other is a more open question--VCU and Dayton as the most likely options, with Richmond as a possibility.

So basically nothings changed. The BE can't decide on a 12th.

It is not clear to me why the Big East can't just add St. Louis and stop at 11. If there is no clear #12, then don't go to 12.

Like someone else pointed out. Its not a football conference. You don't need 12. Many conferences have worked great with exactly 11 teams.

Leagues don't like 11 for basketball because someone is always idle on the weekend when you get your best gate.

I'm surprised that people are questioning if Butler can be successful in the Big East, while overlooking Creighton. Since the tournament expanded to 32 teams in 1975, these are the number of Sweet Sixteen Appearances by candidate:

Xavier: 6
Butler: 4
Creighton: 0
Saint Louis: 0
Dayton: 1
Richmond: 2
VCU: 1

Not often talked about, but interesting:
UMass: 2
Saint Joseph's: 3

There was a clear drop off in prestige after the 8th and 9th spot. I think Creighton was given the edge due to their attendance (Top 10 in the nation). The Big East needs to make sure that any new teams will bring fans to Madison Square Garden - the continued success of the Big East Conference tournament is the biggest factor in their future success.

(11-22-2013 07:12 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  I think Creighton was given the edge due to their attendance (Top 10 in the nation).

Not to mention a small payout to leave the MVC. Simple addition for the BE.

IMO another reason why creighton was chosen before st louis was , picking them wouldnt be as damaging to another conference as would picking 3 schools from the A10 (which already was losing temple and charlotte).
waiting to offer st louis gives the a10 time to adjust

Creighton made more sense at the time drawing 18K a game.

(11-22-2013 06:27 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Leagues don't like 11 for basketball because someone is always idle on the weekend when you get your best gate.

Is that really a problem? Thats 1 weekend out of 11 weeks that each team is idle. They can schedule an OOC game that weekend.

It's created a strange dynamic below the Big East.

That is also known as "giving the A-10 more reason to hate the city of St. Louis".