(11-06-2013 06:42 PM)orangefan Wrote:  Keep in mind that state schools keep their overall scholarship expense down by signing in state kids.

The majority of the subsidy credited to Clemson Athletics from Clemson University is the fact that the University allows Athletics to pay in-state rates for all scholarships. We still predominantly recruit SC, but out of state kids aren't a financial hindrance to us like some schools.

(11-04-2013 12:23 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  NYC kids are usually way behind development wise...but with one or two years in a college program they can become productive and even stars. Jason Bromley was discovered in June after HS graduation at an NY State All Star game. He wasn't even a 2 star...Cuse offered him the next morning after the game and he has played all 4 years. I expect he'll go in the top 2-3 rounds in the NFL Draft.

You would think that schools in that area - Rutgers, UConn, even Cuse - would get together and invest in a "finishing" school to convert NYC basketball players who are not quite college basketball material to football players, which could also work to help the more raw kids develop. Even have a set up feeder Juco for the ones who come out but still need more work. Obviously going there is no guarantee to go to one of those schools, but you'd have a big leg up.

(11-05-2013 08:26 AM)mj4life Wrote:  The one thing you can't teach is genetics but you have to bring in kids from states that produce more D1 level prospects if you want a competitive team yearly.

It's less nature and more nurture. In sunbelt states, it's football all year round from the time the players are in 1st grade. A friend of mine from Alabama who has no interest in sports whatsoever, is one of the more knowledgeable football people around. Why? He says he hates football, but when he was in kindergarten thru 5th grade, after school care was essentially football camp. And everyone did it. The reason they have so many more players is because EVERY kid just about has tried football, and the ones who shoed any sort of aptitude for it, played football from k-8, with the best ones from there playing in HS. Whereas everywhere else, maybe 20% of kids play football, if that much, in sunbelt states it's closer to 70-80%. In Florida and Texas probably higher. The more kids who play it, the larger the number of good players you will find. Plus if you have the best training, your odds go up that much more. And if you can play year round because the weather allows it, it goes up even more.

It is a football culture in those states that makes it so different, and helps produce so much more talent. I am sure genetics help, as many former good players are from the south, or go to college there and stay there, but the culture is more responsible.

(11-11-2013 02:57 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 12:23 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  NYC kids are usually way behind development wise...but with one or two years in a college program they can become productive and even stars. Jason Bromley was discovered in June after HS graduation at an NY State All Star game. He wasn't even a 2 star...Cuse offered him the next morning after the game and he has played all 4 years. I expect he'll go in the top 2-3 rounds in the NFL Draft.

You would think that schools in that area - Rutgers, UConn, even Cuse - would get together and invest in a "finishing" school to convert NYC basketball players who are not quite college basketball material to football players, which could also work to help the more raw kids develop. Even have a set up feeder Juco for the ones who come out but still need more work. Obviously going there is no guarantee to go to one of those schools, but you'd have a big leg up.

Most programs have a prep school of choice. They have long established ties to the school and the staff at the prep school, and when they "place" a recruit there the prep school tends to do what it can to protect that original commitment. It doesn't always work out because once the recruit goes the prep school route they open their recruitment up once again, but for the most part players that are directed to a certain prep school by a program tend to stick with their commitment. Clemson had a great relationship with Hargrave Military but Hargrave dropped football after last year so I am not sure who we will be using in the future.

Right that is what I am saying. But in this case, one who's sports programs might specialize in training top level athletes with limited football background (i.e. New York, Philadelphia, and New Jersey basketball players) in the nuances of football. Seems like a good place to find a new untapped market for skill position players, and maybe a few defensive ends and linebackers.

Undersized high school centers and shooting guards who were not able to make it to the next level, would be the bread and butter.

(11-06-2013 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  2. in what world are you living in is OH a NE state?

It's a state UB will play 4 of their games in this season and recruit heavily in. They are not restriced to NE.

Quote:3. well for staters i have no idea where you got your numbers from...

A five year study of all FBS recruits...

I'm not sayin Texas is not a way better football state. I am saying thats *1* state supporting 12 in state teams and many adjacent states.

The sum of football talent in the north east to the Atlantic has enough talent to support the 8 teams.

(11-11-2013 02:57 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 12:23 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  NYC kids are usually way behind development wise...but with one or two years in a college program they can become productive and even stars. Jason Bromley was discovered in June after HS graduation at an NY State All Star game. He wasn't even a 2 star...Cuse offered him the next morning after the game and he has played all 4 years. I expect he'll go in the top 2-3 rounds in the NFL Draft.

You would think that schools in that area - Rutgers, UConn, even Cuse - would get together and invest in a "finishing" school to convert NYC basketball players who are not quite college basketball material to football players, which could also work to help the more raw kids develop. Even have a set up feeder Juco for the ones who come out but still need more work. Obviously going there is no guarantee to go to one of those schools, but you'd have a big leg up.

Syracuse has traditional ties with Milford Academy. UConn is a newbie and has no history with anyone. Rutgers historically has been weak with only a recent rise in football prowess. I am not sure if they have any ties with any prep schools.

(11-12-2013 01:18 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(11-06-2013 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  2. in what world are you living in is OH a NE state?

It's a state UB will play 4 of their games in this season and recruit heavily in. They are not restriced to NE.

Quote:3. well for staters i have no idea where you got your numbers from...

A five year study of all FBS recruits...

I'm not sayin Texas is not a way better football state. I am saying thats *1* state supporting 12 in state teams and many adjacent states.

The sum of football talent in the north east to the Atlantic has enough talent to support the 8 teams.

you cant just casually include ohio as being part of the northeast thats a pretty big state with a lot of football recruits. Ohio alone produces as many recruits as the entire northeast combined (145 vs 153). and then say the northeast has no shortage of football recruits. that it the most nitpicked, slanted, & totally inaccurate argument I have ever seen. and to top it off......

ohio has 8 FBS programs. so just to be clear: you are totally willing to include all the benefits of ohio (its a recruiting hotbed) but you dont want to include any of the subtractions (theres more teams there).

i dont know about you but no one from the northeast claims OH is part of the northeast. buffalo gets OH recruits because they are in the mac. just like wvu/cuse got FL recruits because they were in the big east. just because buffalo gets a piece of the ohio pipeline doesnt mean that uconn, temple, pitt, su, & army do. thats a product of conference affiliation not geography.

like i said, that is one of the dumbest and most slanted arguments ive ever seen.

(11-04-2013 11:11 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 10:05 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs

psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass

half those teams (i think we all know which 4) need to belly up & die.

and SU needs to take advantage of the southern pipeline we now have especially in florida.

if we wanna take our recruiting seriously then we better keep up with these facility upgrades. we are currently in in the high 20s mid 30s in terms of athletic revenue and we are due for a couple more mill a year with the ACC move. its inexcusable to let that money sit

Syracuse won't be losing recruits to Temple, UConn, Buffalo, or UMass, at least not on a regular basis. There are definitely enough to split between Syracuse, Pitt, Penn State, Boston College, and Rutgers. Especially when you consider Pitt focuses on recruiting southwest PA.

you would think thats the case. however uconn & rutgers have produced a lot of draft picks the past 2 seasons. (its insanely high) so either our recruiting sucks, our scouting sucks, or our player development sucks. either way we suck in one of those area's where any legitimate program wouldnt.

its painful reading syracuse.com and seeing their recruiting stories

recruit X has limited his choices to clemson & syracuse ==> like we have a freaking chance

recruit Y who played at Bville choose temple over syracuse ==> are you freaking kidding me.

we lose players to uconn, rutgers & temple way more than we should and if we cant out recruit our conference foe's in the BE, we dont stand a chance in the ACC.

we need to recruit in a place that works for us. and traditionally thats florida. and we just traded usf for miami (the best recruiting turf) and FSU and the idea is to double down on NYC?????NYC has some quality there however....

1. we will always play 3rd fiddle to rutgers & psu in football recruiting. if those programs want a guy that we want theres no way we are getting them.

2. it takes 10x more effort to find, scout, recruit, & ultimately develop a kid from NYC than the south. why? because their level of football (more HS experience) is at a much higher level, and the recruiters/scouters know the area much better

3. why waste our energy on NYC which we have always had access to when we have just been opened up to miami, georgia, SC, NC, & virginia? that just doesnt sound smart to me.

if we build ourselves up on southern recruiting and become a decent acc team, then the NYC recruiting pool will open up to us. and then we can talk about taking more advantage of it.

I don't necessarily think we will play second fiddle to Rutgers. Perhaps Penn State but I don't think Rutgers will be able to compete in the B1G which means that they will probably go down in terms of recruiting.
The one thing that I think you are missing is that kids these days mostly want to play in the league (NFL), which means that they will be willing to leave the south if they think the college they are going to will turn them into an NFL player. If Syracuse or other schools consistently turn out NFL players then that will be noticed by recruits as a good place to possibly develop into an NFL player. There are a lot of cold weather teams in the NFL (Green Bay, Chicago, Buffalo, Cleveland, New England, NY Giants, NY Jets, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Denver) so the recruits probably realize at some point they will have to get used to cold weather if they want to play in the league.
The academics angle is something more important for the parents but it is something that should not be discounted from a recruiting standpoint.
Sure the recruits in the north will be behind in football development but the one thing that does not show is their heart and desire to improve. This will happen once they get in the program and get coached up by the coaching staff.
One other thing is that historically in college football, successful programs have to do really well in their home area and then add in select recruits from other areas.

(11-12-2013 09:51 AM)john01992 Wrote:  buffalo gets OH recruits because they are in the mac.

Doesn't hurt hat Buffalo is not far from Ohio either.

(11-12-2013 06:44 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 02:57 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 12:23 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  NYC kids are usually way behind development wise...but with one or two years in a college program they can become productive and even stars. Jason Bromley was discovered in June after HS graduation at an NY State All Star game. He wasn't even a 2 star...Cuse offered him the next morning after the game and he has played all 4 years. I expect he'll go in the top 2-3 rounds in the NFL Draft.

You would think that schools in that area - Rutgers, UConn, even Cuse - would get together and invest in a "finishing" school to convert NYC basketball players who are not quite college basketball material to football players, which could also work to help the more raw kids develop. Even have a set up feeder Juco for the ones who come out but still need more work. Obviously going there is no guarantee to go to one of those schools, but you'd have a big leg up.

Syracuse has traditional ties with Milford Academy. UConn is a newbie and has no history with anyone. Rutgers historically has been weak with only a recent rise in football prowess. I am not sure if they have any ties with any prep schools.

Cuse also has ties to Nassau and ASA JUCOs in NYC/LI...Cuse is getting a huge manchild (Wayne Williams) this November from ASA. The kid didn't play FB tis Fall but had to work on academics. I expect he'll a contributer next year and a star the following year.

Is Syracuse giving up on these two local players:

http://247sports.com/Player/Thomas-Holley-29296

http://247sports.com/Player/Chad-Mavety-28545

(11-12-2013 06:46 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Is Syracuse giving up on these two local players:

http://247sports.com/Player/Thomas-Holley-29296

http://247sports.com/Player/Chad-Mavety-28545

#1 No
#2 Probably