NYC kids are usually way behind development wise...but with one or two years in a college program they can become productive and even stars. Jason Bromley was discovered in June after HS graduation at an NY State All Star game. He wasn't even a 2 star...Cuse offered him the next morning after the game and he has played all 4 years. I expect he'll go in the top 2-3 rounds in the NFL Draft.
I always thought NYC had a lot of hidden talent, and I'm surprised that a school like St. John's chose to eliminate football rather than follow UConn's path in building a competitive Division 1 FBS program.
the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
half those teams (i think we all know which 4) need to belly up & die.
and SU needs to take advantage of the southern pipeline we now have especially in florida.
if we wanna take our recruiting seriously then we better keep up with these facility upgrades. we are currently in in the high 20s mid 30s in terms of athletic revenue and we are due for a couple more mill a year with the ACC move. its inexcusable to let that money sit
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
half those teams (i think we all know which 4) need to belly up & die.
and SU needs to take advantage of the southern pipeline we now have especially in florida.
if we wanna take our recruiting seriously then we better keep up with these facility upgrades. we are currently in in the high 20s mid 30s in terms of athletic revenue and we are due for a couple more mill a year with the ACC move. its inexcusable to let that money sit
Syracuse won't be losing recruits to Temple, UConn, Buffalo, or UMass, at least not on a regular basis. There are definitely enough to split between Syracuse, Pitt, Penn State, Boston College, and Rutgers. Especially when you consider Pitt focuses on recruiting southwest PA.
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
half those teams (i think we all know which 4) need to belly up & die.
and SU needs to take advantage of the southern pipeline we now have especially in florida.
if we wanna take our recruiting seriously then we better keep up with these facility upgrades. we are currently in in the high 20s mid 30s in terms of athletic revenue and we are due for a couple more mill a year with the ACC move. its inexcusable to let that money sit
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
half those teams (i think we all know which 4) need to belly up & die.
and SU needs to take advantage of the southern pipeline we now have especially in florida.
if we wanna take our recruiting seriously then we better keep up with these facility upgrades. we are currently in in the high 20s mid 30s in terms of athletic revenue and we are due for a couple more mill a year with the ACC move. its inexcusable to let that money sit
Syracuse won't be losing recruits to Temple, UConn, Buffalo, or UMass, at least not on a regular basis. There are definitely enough to split between Syracuse, Pitt, Penn State, Boston College, and Rutgers. Especially when you consider Pitt focuses on recruiting southwest PA.
you would think thats the case. however uconn & rutgers have produced a lot of draft picks the past 2 seasons. (its insanely high) so either our recruiting sucks, our scouting sucks, or our player development sucks. either way we suck in one of those area's where any legitimate program wouldnt.
its painful reading syracuse.com and seeing their recruiting stories
recruit X has limited his choices to clemson & syracuse ==> like we have a freaking chance
recruit Y who played at Bville choose temple over syracuse ==> are you freaking kidding me.
we lose players to uconn, rutgers & temple way more than we should and if we cant out recruit our conference foe's in the BE, we dont stand a chance in the ACC.
we need to recruit in a place that works for us. and traditionally thats florida. and we just traded usf for miami (the best recruiting turf) and FSU and the idea is to double down on NYC?????NYC has some quality there however....
1. we will always play 3rd fiddle to rutgers & psu in football recruiting. if those programs want a guy that we want theres no way we are getting them.
2. it takes 10x more effort to find, scout, recruit, & ultimately develop a kid from NYC than the south. why? because their level of football (more HS experience) is at a much higher level, and the recruiters/scouters know the area much better
3. why waste our energy on NYC which we have always had access to when we have just been opened up to miami, georgia, SC, NC, & virginia? that just doesnt sound smart to me.
if we build ourselves up on southern recruiting and become a decent acc team, then the NYC recruiting pool will open up to us. and then we can talk about taking more advantage of it.
(11-04-2013 11:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with your southern strategy is the fact that every kid you recruit from down here is going to know two facts:
A. The average high temp for Syracuse from Dec-Feb is 34 degrees.
B. The average snowfall for the same time period is 28 inches.
Good luck!
That sounds like a fat kid's paradise! Hopefully that will help with recruiting on the OL and DL fronts. Sadly, Dino BBQ doesn't compare to southern BBQ. I think that's what's holding us back.
Seriously though, that's why we have a Dome, and why an open air stadium would be suicide (the second part of that sentence was directed at the general public)
(11-04-2013 11:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with your southern strategy is the fact that every kid you recruit from down here is going to know two facts:
A. The average high temp for Syracuse from Dec-Feb is 34 degrees.
B. The average snowfall for the same time period is 28 inches.
Good luck!
we have
16 kids from florida
10 kids from virginia
9 kids from georgia
of the 23 freshman in this years class 13 of them came from southern area's (i included a few guys from southern california in this)
i dont think the weather is gonna be a big problem
(11-04-2013 11:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with your southern strategy is the fact that every kid you recruit from down here is going to know two facts:
A. The average high temp for Syracuse from Dec-Feb is 34 degrees.
B. The average snowfall for the same time period is 28 inches.
Good luck!
That sounds like a fat kid's paradise! Hopefully that will help with recruiting on the OL and DL fronts. Sadly, Dino BBQ doesn't compare to southern BBQ. I think that's what's holding us back.
Seriously though, that's why we have a Dome, and why an open air stadium would be suicide (the second part of that sentence was directed at the general public)
the dome is really starting to hold us back now. we need a brand new state of the art dome (its expensive & a pipe dream) but thats the cost of SU football ever being a national contender
(11-04-2013 11:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with your southern strategy is the fact that every kid you recruit from down here is going to know two facts:
A. The average high temp for Syracuse from Dec-Feb is 34 degrees.
B. The average snowfall for the same time period is 28 inches.
Good luck!
That sounds like a fat kid's paradise! Hopefully that will help with recruiting on the OL and DL fronts. Sadly, Dino BBQ doesn't compare to southern BBQ. I think that's what's holding us back.
Seriously though, that's why we have a Dome, and why an open air stadium would be suicide (the second part of that sentence was directed at the general public)
It's a legitimate concern. We have players every year that see their first snowfall ever and think Clemson is cold.
About 7-8 years ago I was teaching a class in Seneca and stayed over Friday night to catch a Saturday afternoon basketball game. It was the day of our annual football team banquet which is always a huge recruiting day. It was a sunny mid 40's day and the Florida kids looked like they were dressed for Anchorage when they came in for the hoops game.
(11-04-2013 11:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with your southern strategy is the fact that every kid you recruit from down here is going to know two facts:
A. The average high temp for Syracuse from Dec-Feb is 34 degrees.
B. The average snowfall for the same time period is 28 inches.
Good luck!
That sounds like a fat kid's paradise! Hopefully that will help with recruiting on the OL and DL fronts. Sadly, Dino BBQ doesn't compare to southern BBQ. I think that's what's holding us back.
Seriously though, that's why we have a Dome, and why an open air stadium would be suicide (the second part of that sentence was directed at the general public)
It's a legitimate concern. We have players every year that see their first snowfall ever and think Clemson is cold.
About 7-8 years ago I was teaching a class in Seneca and stayed over Friday night to catch a Saturday afternoon basketball game. It was the day of our annual football team banquet which is always a huge recruiting day. It was a sunny mid 40's day and the Florida kids looked like they were dressed for Anchorage when they came in for the hoops game.
i get what you mean.....
however SU fans have to be rational. they guys we will be going after at this point have been passed over by their first couple of choices.
the only schools that we have to compete with where weather is an issue are the power conference schools in the south and lets be rational, we dont have a chance to get those kids anyways. the kids we do have a solid shot of getting if they wanna stay warm then their options are the likes of ucf, usf, or LA tech. and at that point playing in the ACC > being cold.
wvu struck gold with the southern strategy. if they could convince kids to come to morgantown......MORGANTOWN......then getting kids to come to SU should be a piece of cake
Most likely, the successful strategy for Syracuse is to work both threads at the same time. Get 3-star kids from the South, but also go after 3's & 4's (and an occasional 5 if you can) from the North. Your biggest key, IMO, will have to be "coaching them up" - especially the underrated kids from NYC.
JMO
The one thing you can't teach is genetics but you have to bring in kids from states that produce more D1 level prospects if you want a competitive team yearly.
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
half those teams (i think we all know which 4) need to belly up & die.
and SU needs to take advantage of the southern pipeline we now have especially in florida.
if we wanna take our recruiting seriously then we better keep up with these facility upgrades. we are currently in in the high 20s mid 30s in terms of athletic revenue and we are due for a couple more mill a year with the ACC move. its inexcusable to let that money sit
Syracuse won't be losing recruits to Temple, UConn, Buffalo, or UMass, at least not on a regular basis. There are definitely enough to split between Syracuse, Pitt, Penn State, Boston College, and Rutgers. Especially when you consider Pitt focuses on recruiting southwest PA.
you would think thats the case. however uconn & rutgers have produced a lot of draft picks the past 2 seasons. (its insanely high) so either our recruiting sucks, our scouting sucks, or our player development sucks. either way we suck in one of those area's where any legitimate program wouldnt.
its painful reading syracuse.com and seeing their recruiting stories
recruit X has limited his choices to clemson & syracuse ==> like we have a freaking chance
recruit Y who played at Bville choose temple over syracuse ==> are you freaking kidding me.
we lose players to uconn, rutgers & temple way more than we should and if we cant out recruit our conference foe's in the BE, we dont stand a chance in the ACC.
we need to recruit in a place that works for us. and traditionally thats florida. and we just traded usf for miami (the best recruiting turf) and FSU and the idea is to double down on NYC?????NYC has some quality there however....
1. we will always play 3rd fiddle to rutgers & psu in football recruiting. if those programs want a guy that we want theres no way we are getting them.
2. it takes 10x more effort to find, scout, recruit, & ultimately develop a kid from NYC than the south. why? because their level of football (more HS experience) is at a much higher level, and the recruiters/scouters know the area much better
3. why waste our energy on NYC which we have always had access to when we have just been opened up to miami, georgia, SC, NC, & virginia? that just doesnt sound smart to me.
if we build ourselves up on southern recruiting and become a decent acc team, then the NYC recruiting pool will open up to us. and then we can talk about taking more advantage of it.
Schiano is not at Rutgers anymore lying about Syracuse. GRob is not at Syracuse anymore, adding credence to Schiano's lies. We won't lose many, if any, important recruiting battles to Rutgers.
Rutgers is also going to become a doormat in the B1G. Their best seasons will be between 5-7 and 7-5, with more at the 5-7 or worse end. Annually they will play PSU, MSU, UM and OSU, and Maryland will probably win 2/3 of the games v. Rutgers (I don't think Edsall will last long with his performance to date). Add in Wiscy, UNL, Minny, and the usual ups and downs by the remainder of the conference, Rutgers will have a tough time winning 8 or more games again.
We will always recruit NYC/LI because the school heavily recruits students from this area and because this is a rich area of talent (not just football, i.e. hoops, lacrosse, academics, etc.) and alumni. Plus, Syracuse is making a concerted effort to maintain a presence in the city. Recruiting is just one more method of doing so. Finally, the ACC wnats NYC to be ACC territory, expect ACC schools to heavily monitor NYC for any talent in any sport and keep doors open, it's in their own best interest. Ex: Clemson snagged a couple NY kids over the last couple years and will do so regularly because they offer something good to these kids.
(11-05-2013 05:22 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]Most likely, the successful strategy for Syracuse is to work both threads at the same time. Get 3-star kids from the South, but also go after 3's & 4's (and an occasional 5 if you can) from the North. Your biggest key, IMO, will have to be "coaching them up" - especially the underrated kids from NYC.
JMO
Unless you are one of the few football factories, spotting diamond sin the rough and coaching up is the only real strategy. It does not matter where you find the diamonds in the rough, only that you find them.
The MAC and CUSA routinely finds excellent kids picked over by the Football factories and the power 5 conferences and produce winners.
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
Ummm Lets be clear here you're saying NY,PA,OH,NJ,CON,RI,MA,ME,NH,VT don't have enough fbs talent to support *8* FBS teams but the state of Texas has enough to support what 12 now?
Texas put 2,100 from 2008-2013.. That's a really impressive number but OH,PA,NJ,NU alone put 1,700 over that same time span
Pull up your pants and try talking with the other end...
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
Ummm Lets be clear here you're saying NY,PA,OH,NJ,CON,RI,MA,ME,NH,VT don't have enough fbs talent to support *8* FBS teams but the state of Texas has enough to support what 12 now?
Texas put 2,100 from 2008-2013.. That's a really impressive number but OH,PA,NJ,NU alone put 1,700 over that same time span
Pull up your pants and try talking with the other end...
1. on average texas players are much much better than NE players
2. in what world are you living in is OH a NE state?
3. well for staters i have no idea where you got your numbers from, but heres what im looking at according to rivals
texas
345 FBS signee's
161,210 HS players
the northeast
153 FBS signees (105 of which come from NJ/PA)
134,363 HS players
right off the bat you can see that there is a HUGE difference in recruiting.
and secondly there is one huge aspect in the number of FBS schools per state that you are missing
yes texas has 12 FBS schools however they only have 5 FCS schools
the NE has 10 FBS schools however they also have 29 FCS schools
normally i wouldnt make the claim that FCS affects FBS, but you are talking about such a large disparity here that you just cant ignore that lil stat.
(11-04-2013 09:06 PM)john01992 Wrote: [ -> ]the northeast simply doesnt have enough recruits to support all these programs
psu
pitt
bc
syracuse
temple
uconn
buffalo
umass
Ummm Lets be clear here you're saying NY,PA,OH,NJ,CON,RI,MA,ME,NH,VT don't have enough fbs talent to support *8* FBS teams but the state of Texas has enough to support what 12 now?
Texas put 2,100 from 2008-2013.. That's a really impressive number but OH,PA,NJ,NU alone put 1,700 over that same time span
Pull up your pants and try talking with the other end...
1. on average texas players are much much better than NE players
2. in what world are you living in is OH a NE state?
3. well for staters i have no idea where you got your numbers from, but heres what im looking at according to rivals
texas
345 FBS signee's
161,210 HS players
the northeast
153 FBS signees (105 of which come from NJ/PA)
134,363 HS players
right off the bat you can see that there is a HUGE difference in recruiting.
and secondly there is one huge aspect in the number of FBS schools per state that you are missing
yes texas has 12 FBS schools however they only have 5 FCS schools
the NE has 10 FBS schools however they also have 29 FCS schools
normally i wouldnt make the claim that FCS affects FBS, but you are talking about such a large disparity here that you just cant ignore that lil stat.
I agree. When you look at the number of FBS players from a state like Ohio, for instance, you have to consider that it has 8 FBS schools, only one of which is P5 plus one other BCS AQ. With so few FBS schools in New England, the kids playing at FBS Akron (Sagarin Rating 57) are roughly equivalent to the kids playing at FCS UMaine (Sagarin Rating 62.5). Keep in mind that state schools keep their overall scholarship expense down by signing in state kids.
This is why I did a chart of recruiting exports a while back. http://csnbbs.com/attachment.php?aid=3900. It shows which states are producing FBS talent, and calculates which states are exporting and which are importing talent. The ACC feature 2 of the monster 4 exporting states - Florida and Georgia. Georgia is known as a recruiting hotbed, but well behind FL and TX. When you see how many of those recruits are leaving the state, though, because it only has two FBS schools until recently, it is right on the heals of FL and TX as an exporter.
.