(07-28-2013 09:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:41 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 10:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 12:29 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The entire Ohio State team was in on that scandal too. The entire Montana team didn't get bailed out. It was just a couple of players...

I provided the 2nd article to provide a little more information. There were at least SIX players accused.

Okay. So it was 6 players vs. an entire team. It still ain't the same...

Just don't tell me you're upset that Montana didn't get slammed because Ohio State broke the rules? That's how the NCAA used to work. But not anymore...

An entire team? No football player or any athlete at Penn St. was ever involved in any way in the Sandusky scandal. President yes. AD yes. V-P yes. Players not at all.

We were comparing the incidents at Montana to the Ohio State scandal - not Penn State. But thanks for playing...

(07-28-2013 09:49 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 10:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 09:22 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 12:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 11:13 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  I admit I am not totally familiar with all that went on at Montana. However comparing it to what happened at Penn st is a bit of a stretch

You're right. At Montana it involved multiple players, not one retired coach. Campus police ignored the crimes instead of being ignorant of them. It involved actual athletes who played and students of the university assulted, not a peripheral crime involving a former coach and victims outside the university. So yes, the NCAA should blow off Montana but get real involved with Penn St.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/41081/...ay-with-it

I didnt say Montana should not be punished. Do you really think the horrid actions of a few FB Players is equal to those of an official of the university who REPEATEDLY raped young boys for YEARS and whose actions were COVERED up by the university, the AD and head FB coach? Sandusky used the university's status to attack his victims. He did this on campus, off campus and even performed these acts across state lines. He preyed on vulnerable young boys, actually carfully planning his actions. Selecting well in advance whom his victims would be. Penn st officials were aware of what went on and yet CONTINUED to allow him access to his young victims. They did nothing to protect these boys and continued to operate programs when they knew more young boys would become vulnerable to this scu**ag.

You don't seem to know much about Penn St. either. Half of what you are saying is inaccurate.

And there are two issues. With the crime and with the relation to the NCAA.

And so a half dozen different players raping women is a significantly smaller crime than one retired coach raping children? They're both awful. Both can have long term effects on the victim.

And the relation to performance on the field is much stronger with Montana. With PSU its peripheral. With Montana its direct.

so then enlighten me. what is inaccurate about when i said about Penn st?

Sandusky wasn't an "official." He was a retired employee who as a retired employee had access to PSU facilities. One crime was at the Alamo Bowl when he was a coach, but no one knew about that one until the last couple of years. They properly handled 2000. The police investigated and didn't charge him.

They didn't really fail until 2002. And even then they weren't certain what happened. They knew and suspected enough that their disregard for the victims was inexcusable. But they didn't "cover up" at the time. They did nothing other than tell the charity. Doing nothing is inexcusable, but its not a "cover up." They didn't know he was continuing to do it. The only "cover up" was when the grand jury started investigating a couple of years ago and they apparently lied to the grand jury. They should have reported it to the police. They should have made sure he didn't come back on campus with kids, even with the charity, as they decided.

I'm all for PSU getting hit hard. I just don't think its the NCAA's role. It should be the federal government. And they still may.

(07-28-2013 10:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:49 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 10:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 09:22 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 12:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  You're right. At Montana it involved multiple players, not one retired coach. Campus police ignored the crimes instead of being ignorant of them. It involved actual athletes who played and students of the university assulted, not a peripheral crime involving a former coach and victims outside the university. So yes, the NCAA should blow off Montana but get real involved with Penn St.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/41081/...ay-with-it

I didnt say Montana should not be punished. Do you really think the horrid actions of a few FB Players is equal to those of an official of the university who REPEATEDLY raped young boys for YEARS and whose actions were COVERED up by the university, the AD and head FB coach? Sandusky used the university's status to attack his victims. He did this on campus, off campus and even performed these acts across state lines. He preyed on vulnerable young boys, actually carfully planning his actions. Selecting well in advance whom his victims would be. Penn st officials were aware of what went on and yet CONTINUED to allow him access to his young victims. They did nothing to protect these boys and continued to operate programs when they knew more young boys would become vulnerable to this scu**ag.

You don't seem to know much about Penn St. either. Half of what you are saying is inaccurate.

And there are two issues. With the crime and with the relation to the NCAA.

And so a half dozen different players raping women is a significantly smaller crime than one retired coach raping children? They're both awful. Both can have long term effects on the victim.

And the relation to performance on the field is much stronger with Montana. With PSU its peripheral. With Montana its direct.

so then enlighten me. what is inaccurate about when i said about Penn st?

Sandusky wasn't an "official." He was a retired employee who as a retired employee had access to PSU facilities. One crime was at the Alamo Bowl when he was a coach, but no one knew about that one until the last couple of years. They properly handled 2000. The police investigated and didn't charge him.

They didn't really fail until 2002. And even then they weren't certain what happened. They knew and suspected enough that their disregard for the victims was inexcusable. But they didn't "cover up" at the time. They did nothing other than tell the charity. Doing nothing is inexcusable, but its not a "cover up." They didn't know he was continuing to do it. The only "cover up" was when the grand jury started investigating a couple of years ago and they apparently lied to the grand jury. They should have reported it to the police. They should have made sure he didn't come back on campus with kids, even with the charity, as they decided.

I'm all for PSU getting hit hard. I just don't think its the NCAA's role. It should be the federal government. And they still may.

Sandusky was "investigated" in 98 while he was still a coach. Conveniently he "retired" (most believe told to )in 99 while still at the top of his game. Many belived he still had quite a few years left to coach and were puzzled as to why he would retire at that time.
To believe that Paterno and the university weren't aware of what was going on, to me, seems a little naive.

The government should get involved, However IMO, the only way to reduce the likelihood of things like this happeneing in the future, is for the university involved to be severly punished by the body that governs it. Montana didnt have control over its football program. The accussed players had their days in court. There should be some kind of penalty against the school.
PSU IMO should have had its FB program shutdown for a few years. Its seems that scandal was widespread in terms of who knew what and how it was handled. They provided the physical facilites for the abuse to continue, even after 1998. I will give them the benefit of the doubt of not knowing what is said to have happened in the 70"s and 80"s but i"m not convinced they wanted to know.

Well it seems like we're not going to agree on which was the worse scandal so i guess we should move

(07-28-2013 10:24 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 10:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 09:49 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 10:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 09:22 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I didnt say Montana should not be punished. Do you really think the horrid actions of a few FB Players is equal to those of an official of the university who REPEATEDLY raped young boys for YEARS and whose actions were COVERED up by the university, the AD and head FB coach? Sandusky used the university's status to attack his victims. He did this on campus, off campus and even performed these acts across state lines. He preyed on vulnerable young boys, actually carfully planning his actions. Selecting well in advance whom his victims would be. Penn st officials were aware of what went on and yet CONTINUED to allow him access to his young victims. They did nothing to protect these boys and continued to operate programs when they knew more young boys would become vulnerable to this scu**ag.

You don't seem to know much about Penn St. either. Half of what you are saying is inaccurate.

And there are two issues. With the crime and with the relation to the NCAA.

And so a half dozen different players raping women is a significantly smaller crime than one retired coach raping children? They're both awful. Both can have long term effects on the victim.

And the relation to performance on the field is much stronger with Montana. With PSU its peripheral. With Montana its direct.

so then enlighten me. what is inaccurate about when i said about Penn st?

Sandusky wasn't an "official." He was a retired employee who as a retired employee had access to PSU facilities. One crime was at the Alamo Bowl when he was a coach, but no one knew about that one until the last couple of years. They properly handled 2000. The police investigated and didn't charge him.

They didn't really fail until 2002. And even then they weren't certain what happened. They knew and suspected enough that their disregard for the victims was inexcusable. But they didn't "cover up" at the time. They did nothing other than tell the charity. Doing nothing is inexcusable, but its not a "cover up." They didn't know he was continuing to do it. The only "cover up" was when the grand jury started investigating a couple of years ago and they apparently lied to the grand jury. They should have reported it to the police. They should have made sure he didn't come back on campus with kids, even with the charity, as they decided.

I'm all for PSU getting hit hard. I just don't think its the NCAA's role. It should be the federal government. And they still may.

Sandusky was "investigated" in 98 while he was still a coach. Conveniently he "retired" (most believe told to )in 99 while still at the top of his game. Many belived he still had quite a few years left to coach and were puzzled as to why he would retire at that time.
To believe that Paterno and the university weren't aware of what was going on, to me, seems a little naive.

The government should get involved, However IMO, the only way to reduce the likelihood of things like this happeneing in the future, is for the university involved to be severly punished by the body that governs it. Montana didnt have control over its football program. The accussed players had their days in court. There should be some kind of penalty against the school.
PSU IMO should have had its FB program shutdown for a few years. Its seems that scandal was widespread in terms of who knew what and how it was handled. They provided the physical facilites for the abuse to continue, even after 1998. I will give them the benefit of the doubt of not knowing what is said to have happened in the 70"s and 80"s but i"m not convinced they wanted to know.

Well it seems like we're not going to agree on which was the worse scandal so i guess we should move

You're getting the 1998 Alamo Bowl which no one knew about until a couple years ago with the 2000 case which was investigated by the police and charges dropped. That was when he retired. The NCAA penalized back to 1998 even though no one knew about that problem at the time.