(07-18-2013 02:03 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  SEC - flirted with Rice in 1990...

LOL..... That was UH (and A&M). Forgot the specific names but it was a combo of SEC officials and coaches angling for A&M in the early 90's and "considering" us as a partner for the Aggies.

The real play was for A&M by far. I won't try and spin it as we (UH) were the main focus of that expansion talk, and for the record I don't think you were going there either.

We were certainly not the main focus of the expansion. We were considered as an expansion partner with Arkansas, not aTm. South Carolina got that spot.

(07-19-2013 09:57 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 02:03 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  SEC - flirted with Rice in 1990...

LOL..... That was UH (and A&M). Forgot the specific names but it was a combo of SEC officials and coaches angling for A&M in the early 90's and "considering" us as a partner for the Aggies.

The real play was for A&M by far. I won't try and spin it as we (UH) were the main focus of that expansion talk, and for the record I don't think you were going there either.

We were certainly not the main focus of the expansion. We were considered as an expansion partner with Arkansas, not aTm. South Carolina got that spot.

Per a former SEC AD at the time of the 1989 expansion.

The plan laid about by Kramer was to add Texas, Texas A&M, Florida State and Miami.

The Texas schools said that they could not leave unless something changed with the SWC. Arkansas getting wind of what was going on went to Kramer and said if they leave that ought to clear the way for Texas and Texas A&M.

Soon as the Arkansas move is announced Texas begins immediate talks. With the Big 10 and Pac-10. Had no interest in the SEC. TAMU though wants in.

Meanwhile the SEC presidents inform Kramer they will not support Miami.

So now the plan for the now 11 team SEC is TAMU and Florida State and a player to be named later with Houston and South Carolina getting some discussion.

Texas politics shut down the TAMU option (and Houston). So the plan has become simple. Add Florida State and stop at 12.

The Florida State president tells Bowden to clear his schedule for a date about a week out for the SEC announcement. A couple days before the announcement date, the president asks Bowden to come to his office. He opens the meeting by asking "What would be your opinion if I were to accept an offer to join the ACC?" Bowden says he has no objection and says its probably better for the sports other than football. Kramer is all set to head to Tallahassee for the press conference and the FSU president calls and says we are having a press conference in two hours to announce we are joining the ACC.

So back to the board they go over their options and finally settle on South Carolina.

(07-19-2013 09:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-19-2013 09:02 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  While they have some support neither UConn or Syracuse are nyc's team.most people not associated with these schools don't care about them. Unless of course it involves some national story like a championship game.

while its hard to deny that those schools dont have a good stamp on that region. the only way a conference can claim part of that region is by having multiple teams with large fanbases in that area. both the acc & the b10 can say that

b10
rutgers
psu

acc
syracuse
notre dame

i've lived in the ny metro area for most of my life and im no kid. Believe me when i say there isnt much interest in Uconn, Syracuse or even Rutgers beyond the typical interest in sports. People arent rushing home to catch syracuse fb or asking bartenders to put on the Uconn game
NYC has large fan bases of many teams and Syracuse travels well in BB and has had a histoically strong program for decades. However as much as the university wishes it to be true, Syracuse is not NYC's team. People may watch because Syracuse is a winner but there isnt that level of fanatasism that can truly bring a market
Uconn and Cuse get occasional coverage on the tv news, usually if the story either has national interest or they are playing a "local" team such as rutgers or st johns. from what ive seen Uconn doesnt register as strongly with sports fans in fairfield county as they do in the rest of the state. Maybe i have a different interpretation of what brings a city but i honestly cant see uconn or syracuse ever bringing nyc like they do closer to campus or like other schools do with their markets in other states
Others of course will disagree

(07-17-2013 09:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  pac- flirted with cu in 1996
acc- flirted with syracuse in 2005
sec- flirted with aggie in 2010
b12- flirted with tcu in 1996

it sure seems like schools that a conference didnt add but almost did seems to be like planting a seed that sticks around. im wondering if these events mean that a conference already has its next expansion option in mind or if they do in fact have the "what if" thinking when they dont like where a particular conference realignment move went.

and im not saying it works one way (aggie is a perfect example of a school showing regret)

The ACC first talked to Syracuse in 1990.
Reading the story you will see that the ACC contacted Syracuse BEFORE they called Florida State,

http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_acc.html

The story also shows that the SEC had intended to expand from 10 to 12 with Arkansas and Florida State.

A lot of us regretted not going to the SEC with Arkansas in 91 but at the time there was nothing we could do about it because we didn't have the political power to fight Lt Gov Bob Bullock who was determined to save Baylor and Tech by making sure the Big 12 merger happened so those 2 could have a spot in it.

(07-20-2013 01:11 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  A lot of us regretted not going to the SEC with Arkansas in 91 but at the time there was nothing we could do about it because we didn't have the political power to fight Lt Gov Bob Bullock who was determined to save Baylor and Tech by making sure the Big 12 merger happened so those 2 could have a spot in it.

IIRC the story was that Bullock told A&M that they could get money to build their planned new basketball arena only if they agreed to join the Big 12.

Almost.

The gist was:

"Go to the SEC and all of a sudden funding for anything you wants gonna be real tough...but if you go with UT then not only will funding not be an issue but I'll get you those last few votes your short for building Reed Arena."

(07-18-2013 09:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 03:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 03:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 11:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  What was the story on the PAC angle Bullet? I was familiar with the SEC interest in the Horns and Aggies but never heard anything pertaining to the Cougars. I would be interested to hear the story on that.

VT was added to the ACC in 2003, because Duke and UNC wanted to right a wrong that was done to VT in 1953. Duke and UNC could have blocked VT by letting UVa off the hook on the vote, instead UNC and Duke made UVa vote for VT on a motion that included VT and Miami at the same time.

VT was blackballed from the ACC in 1953 over the bowl ban - UNC tried to get them in the new conference but their voted died 4-4. West Va which had just been added to the Southern Confernece in 1950, was the swing vote on the bowl ban and when UNC made a motion to include WVa it died for lack of a second.

The ACC could have added Florida in the 1970's but MD was against the idea. MD was also against adding Penn State in the 1980's and against FSU in 1991. Anyone see a pattern?

Really?

The story at the time was that they went into the meeting expecting the expansion vote for Miami, BC, Syracuse to pass 8-2 with UNC and Duke being the no votes. Virginia then announced the governor had put the squeeze on and they could not cast a yes vote on expansion unless it was for Va Tech which make the vote fail 7-3. The ACC then agreed to add Miami and VaTech on an 8-2 vote with neither Syracuse or BC getting the needed 8 at that meeting.

yeah thats how i heard it as well

I think you are missing the points. 1. Duke and UNC knew exactly what was happening in Blacksburg, Charlottesville, and Richmond none of that was a suprise - it was all known in the conference and covered in the media.
2. Duke and UNC both knew that unless one of them voted in favor of the Miami, Syracuse, BC combination, that VT would get into the league because UVa was being held to the fire by Va Governor and General Assembly.
3. This is how Duke and UNC helped orchestrate VT into the ACC instead of Syracuse. Duke did not want Syracuse at the time. UVa was made to look like the culprit, when the decision rested in Durham and Chapel Hill.
4. One of the reasons Duke and UNC wanted VT back with the group was to help fill seats in their football stadiums.

I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

(07-19-2013 03:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-19-2013 09:57 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 02:03 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:39 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  SEC - flirted with Rice in 1990...

LOL..... That was UH (and A&M). Forgot the specific names but it was a combo of SEC officials and coaches angling for A&M in the early 90's and "considering" us as a partner for the Aggies.

The real play was for A&M by far. I won't try and spin it as we (UH) were the main focus of that expansion talk, and for the record I don't think you were going there either.

We were certainly not the main focus of the expansion. We were considered as an expansion partner with Arkansas, not aTm. South Carolina got that spot.

Per a former SEC AD at the time of the 1989 expansion.

The plan laid about by Kramer was to add Texas, Texas A&M, Florida State and Miami.

The Texas schools said that they could not leave unless something changed with the SWC. Arkansas getting wind of what was going on went to Kramer and said if they leave that ought to clear the way for Texas and Texas A&M.

Soon as the Arkansas move is announced Texas begins immediate talks. With the Big 10 and Pac-10. Had no interest in the SEC. TAMU though wants in.

Meanwhile the SEC presidents inform Kramer they will not support Miami.

So now the plan for the now 11 team SEC is TAMU and Florida State and a player to be named later with Houston and South Carolina getting some discussion.

Texas politics shut down the TAMU option (and Houston). So the plan has become simple. Add Florida State and stop at 12.

The Florida State president tells Bowden to clear his schedule for a date about a week out for the SEC announcement. A couple days before the announcement date, the president asks Bowden to come to his office. He opens the meeting by asking "What would be your opinion if I were to accept an offer to join the ACC?" Bowden says he has no objection and says its probably better for the sports other than football. Kramer is all set to head to Tallahassee for the press conference and the FSU president calls and says we are having a press conference in two hours to announce we are joining the ACC.

So back to the board they go over their options and finally settle on South Carolina.

I don't know if FSU regretted it, but I sure did.

I think it's just that conferences have always counted on the "also-rans" to still be ripe for the picking during the next round of expansion, which is one of the reason there have been so many threads and articles on the Big 12 not adding Louisville when it still could've.

(07-21-2013 07:00 AM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 09:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 03:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 03:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  VT was added to the ACC in 2003, because Duke and UNC wanted to right a wrong that was done to VT in 1953. Duke and UNC could have blocked VT by letting UVa off the hook on the vote, instead UNC and Duke made UVa vote for VT on a motion that included VT and Miami at the same time.

VT was blackballed from the ACC in 1953 over the bowl ban - UNC tried to get them in the new conference but their voted died 4-4. West Va which had just been added to the Southern Confernece in 1950, was the swing vote on the bowl ban and when UNC made a motion to include WVa it died for lack of a second.

The ACC could have added Florida in the 1970's but MD was against the idea. MD was also against adding Penn State in the 1980's and against FSU in 1991. Anyone see a pattern?

Really?

The story at the time was that they went into the meeting expecting the expansion vote for Miami, BC, Syracuse to pass 8-2 with UNC and Duke being the no votes. Virginia then announced the governor had put the squeeze on and they could not cast a yes vote on expansion unless it was for Va Tech which make the vote fail 7-3. The ACC then agreed to add Miami and VaTech on an 8-2 vote with neither Syracuse or BC getting the needed 8 at that meeting.

yeah thats how i heard it as well

I think you are missing the points. 1. Duke and UNC knew exactly what was happening in Blacksburg, Charlottesville, and Richmond none of that was a suprise - it was all known in the conference and covered in the media.
2. Duke and UNC both knew that unless one of them voted in favor of the Miami, Syracuse, BC combination, that VT would get into the league because UVa was being held to the fire by Va Governor and General Assembly.
3. This is how Duke and UNC helped orchestrate VT into the ACC instead of Syracuse. Duke did not want Syracuse at the time. UVa was made to look like the culprit, when the decision rested in Durham and Chapel Hill.
4. One of the reasons Duke and UNC wanted VT back with the group was to help fill seats in their football stadiums.

I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I know the facts.

Gene Corrigan had started the ball rolling along with Paul Dee and then NC State AD Les Robinson. By the time Swofford is made commissioners and starts on the expansion, he is moving ahead at full steam with one problem - he has not specifically checked with Duke's President or UNC Chancellor. He has missed the fact that Duke really doesn't want Syracuse, he thinks the ACC presidents and chancellors are going to do what he reccomends. He will soon find out what Gene Corrigan found out with FSU - the ACC presidents and chancellors can't be told what to do - they will do as they please.

VT held up nothing from the ACC - the could not. UNC and Duke decided that it was in their best interest to give UVa some direct competition and reap the large visiting football crowd from VT, especially since VT's basketball program possed no threat to UNC or Duke.

If UNC did not want VT in the league, all they had to do was make the motion to add Miami and BC. Same with Duke. By telling everyone ahead of time they would be a no vote, that put UVa in the bullseye.

You seem to have forgotten the timeline of how things transpired.

(07-21-2013 05:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:00 AM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 09:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 03:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Really?

The story at the time was that they went into the meeting expecting the expansion vote for Miami, BC, Syracuse to pass 8-2 with UNC and Duke being the no votes. Virginia then announced the governor had put the squeeze on and they could not cast a yes vote on expansion unless it was for Va Tech which make the vote fail 7-3. The ACC then agreed to add Miami and VaTech on an 8-2 vote with neither Syracuse or BC getting the needed 8 at that meeting.

yeah thats how i heard it as well

I think you are missing the points. 1. Duke and UNC knew exactly what was happening in Blacksburg, Charlottesville, and Richmond none of that was a suprise - it was all known in the conference and covered in the media.
2. Duke and UNC both knew that unless one of them voted in favor of the Miami, Syracuse, BC combination, that VT would get into the league because UVa was being held to the fire by Va Governor and General Assembly.
3. This is how Duke and UNC helped orchestrate VT into the ACC instead of Syracuse. Duke did not want Syracuse at the time. UVa was made to look like the culprit, when the decision rested in Durham and Chapel Hill.
4. One of the reasons Duke and UNC wanted VT back with the group was to help fill seats in their football stadiums.

I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I know the facts.

Gene Corrigan had started the ball rolling along with Paul Dee and then NC State AD Les Robinson. By the time Swofford is made commissioners and starts on the expansion, he is moving ahead at full steam with one problem - he has not specifically checked with Duke's President or UNC Chancellor. He has missed the fact that Duke really doesn't want Syracuse, he thinks the ACC presidents and chancellors are going to do what he reccomends. He will soon find out what Gene Corrigan found out with FSU - the ACC presidents and chancellors can't be told what to do - they will do as they please.

VT held up nothing from the ACC - the could not. UNC and Duke decided that it was in their best interest to give UVa some direct competition and reap the large visiting football crowd from VT, especially since VT's basketball program possed no threat to UNC or Duke.

If UNC did not want VT in the league, all they had to do was make the motion to add Miami and BC. Same with Duke. By telling everyone ahead of time they would be a no vote, that put UVa in the bullseye.

You seem to have forgotten the timeline of how things transpired.

You're making up new facts unless you have been in personal discussion with the Duke or UNC presidents and they are really Machiavellian.

The ACC was adding Miami, SU and BC. They made public campus visits. At the last minute UVA got political pressure to vote not unless VT was in. So to get UVA's vote (with UNC and Duke voting no), they admitted Miami and Virginia Tech despite no votes from Duke and UNC. It was UVA who effectively broke up the Miami/SU/BC addition.

(07-21-2013 05:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:00 AM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 09:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 03:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Really?

The story at the time was that they went into the meeting expecting the expansion vote for Miami, BC, Syracuse to pass 8-2 with UNC and Duke being the no votes. Virginia then announced the governor had put the squeeze on and they could not cast a yes vote on expansion unless it was for Va Tech which make the vote fail 7-3. The ACC then agreed to add Miami and VaTech on an 8-2 vote with neither Syracuse or BC getting the needed 8 at that meeting.

yeah thats how i heard it as well

I think you are missing the points. 1. Duke and UNC knew exactly what was happening in Blacksburg, Charlottesville, and Richmond none of that was a suprise - it was all known in the conference and covered in the media.
2. Duke and UNC both knew that unless one of them voted in favor of the Miami, Syracuse, BC combination, that VT would get into the league because UVa was being held to the fire by Va Governor and General Assembly.
3. This is how Duke and UNC helped orchestrate VT into the ACC instead of Syracuse. Duke did not want Syracuse at the time. UVa was made to look like the culprit, when the decision rested in Durham and Chapel Hill.
4. One of the reasons Duke and UNC wanted VT back with the group was to help fill seats in their football stadiums.

I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I know the facts.

Gene Corrigan had started the ball rolling along with Paul Dee and then NC State AD Les Robinson. By the time Swofford is made commissioners and starts on the expansion, he is moving ahead at full steam with one problem - he has not specifically checked with Duke's President or UNC Chancellor. He has missed the fact that Duke really doesn't want Syracuse, he thinks the ACC presidents and chancellors are going to do what he reccomends. He will soon find out what Gene Corrigan found out with FSU - the ACC presidents and chancellors can't be told what to do - they will do as they please.

VT held up nothing from the ACC - the could not. UNC and Duke decided that it was in their best interest to give UVa some direct competition and reap the large visiting football crowd from VT, especially since VT's basketball program possed no threat to UNC or Duke.

If UNC did not want VT in the league, all they had to do was make the motion to add Miami and BC. Same with Duke. By telling everyone ahead of time they would be a no vote, that put UVa in the bullseye.

You seem to have forgotten the timeline of how things transpired.

I'm not sure what you mean by mentioning FSU, but if you're talking about why FSU got in the ACC, but Syracuse didn't get in the ACC in '91, it's because we wanted special treatment. I have a source if you don't believe me.

(07-21-2013 06:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  You're making up new facts unless you have been in personal discussion with the Duke or UNC presidents and they are really Machiavellian.

The ACC was adding Miami, SU and BC. They made public campus visits. At the last minute UVA got political pressure to vote not unless VT was in. So to get UVA's vote (with UNC and Duke voting no), they admitted Miami and Virginia Tech despite no votes from Duke and UNC. It was UVA who effectively broke up the Miami/SU/BC addition.

+1

(07-21-2013 07:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 05:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:00 AM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 09:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 04:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  yeah thats how i heard it as well

I think you are missing the points. 1. Duke and UNC knew exactly what was happening in Blacksburg, Charlottesville, and Richmond none of that was a suprise - it was all known in the conference and covered in the media.
2. Duke and UNC both knew that unless one of them voted in favor of the Miami, Syracuse, BC combination, that VT would get into the league because UVa was being held to the fire by Va Governor and General Assembly.
3. This is how Duke and UNC helped orchestrate VT into the ACC instead of Syracuse. Duke did not want Syracuse at the time. UVa was made to look like the culprit, when the decision rested in Durham and Chapel Hill.
4. One of the reasons Duke and UNC wanted VT back with the group was to help fill seats in their football stadiums.

I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I know the facts.

Gene Corrigan had started the ball rolling along with Paul Dee and then NC State AD Les Robinson. By the time Swofford is made commissioners and starts on the expansion, he is moving ahead at full steam with one problem - he has not specifically checked with Duke's President or UNC Chancellor. He has missed the fact that Duke really doesn't want Syracuse, he thinks the ACC presidents and chancellors are going to do what he reccomends. He will soon find out what Gene Corrigan found out with FSU - the ACC presidents and chancellors can't be told what to do - they will do as they please.

VT held up nothing from the ACC - the could not. UNC and Duke decided that it was in their best interest to give UVa some direct competition and reap the large visiting football crowd from VT, especially since VT's basketball program possed no threat to UNC or Duke.

If UNC did not want VT in the league, all they had to do was make the motion to add Miami and BC. Same with Duke. By telling everyone ahead of time they would be a no vote, that put UVa in the bullseye.

You seem to have forgotten the timeline of how things transpired.

I'm not sure what you mean by mentioning FSU, but if you're talking about why FSU got in the ACC, but Syracuse didn't get in the ACC in '91, it's because we wanted special treatment. I have a source if you don't believe me.

http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_acc.html

Here is some proof for you.

(07-21-2013 07:57 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 06:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  You're making up new facts unless you have been in personal discussion with the Duke or UNC presidents and they are really Machiavellian.

The ACC was adding Miami, SU and BC. They made public campus visits. At the last minute UVA got political pressure to vote not unless VT was in. So to get UVA's vote (with UNC and Duke voting no), they admitted Miami and Virginia Tech despite no votes from Duke and UNC. It was UVA who effectively broke up the Miami/SU/BC addition.

+1

Virginia Tech cancelled all future athletic construction, and contacted West Virginia about adding East Carolina to the Big East.

(From memory) Did UNC have a chancellor at that time? If I remember correctly, UNC abstained. I do remember that UNC and Duke were vocal about not wanting expansion.

Syracuse made an announcement that they were happy in the Big East. Boston College did, too. Miami jumped. BC followed and the lawsuits started.

(07-21-2013 08:23 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 05:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:00 AM)chess Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 09:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  I think you are missing the points. 1. Duke and UNC knew exactly what was happening in Blacksburg, Charlottesville, and Richmond none of that was a suprise - it was all known in the conference and covered in the media.
2. Duke and UNC both knew that unless one of them voted in favor of the Miami, Syracuse, BC combination, that VT would get into the league because UVa was being held to the fire by Va Governor and General Assembly.
3. This is how Duke and UNC helped orchestrate VT into the ACC instead of Syracuse. Duke did not want Syracuse at the time. UVa was made to look like the culprit, when the decision rested in Durham and Chapel Hill.
4. One of the reasons Duke and UNC wanted VT back with the group was to help fill seats in their football stadiums.

I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I know the facts.

Gene Corrigan had started the ball rolling along with Paul Dee and then NC State AD Les Robinson. By the time Swofford is made commissioners and starts on the expansion, he is moving ahead at full steam with one problem - he has not specifically checked with Duke's President or UNC Chancellor. He has missed the fact that Duke really doesn't want Syracuse, he thinks the ACC presidents and chancellors are going to do what he reccomends. He will soon find out what Gene Corrigan found out with FSU - the ACC presidents and chancellors can't be told what to do - they will do as they please.

VT held up nothing from the ACC - the could not. UNC and Duke decided that it was in their best interest to give UVa some direct competition and reap the large visiting football crowd from VT, especially since VT's basketball program possed no threat to UNC or Duke.

If UNC did not want VT in the league, all they had to do was make the motion to add Miami and BC. Same with Duke. By telling everyone ahead of time they would be a no vote, that put UVa in the bullseye.

You seem to have forgotten the timeline of how things transpired.

I'm not sure what you mean by mentioning FSU, but if you're talking about why FSU got in the ACC, but Syracuse didn't get in the ACC in '91, it's because we wanted special treatment. I have a source if you don't believe me.

http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_acc.html

Here is some proof for you.

It also didn't help that Clemson and Maryland, teams who did well in the 1980's, did not compete well.

The ACC had teams show signs of growth but never could put it all together. After the 10 year FSU domination, NC State would defeat Florida State and lose to Wake Forest the next week.

Virginia (Walsh), NC State (Amato), UNC (Brown leaves for Texas),...

(07-25-2013 07:20 AM)chess Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 08:23 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 05:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-21-2013 07:00 AM)chess Wrote:  I don't agree with your speculation.

The ACC wanted Miami (FL), Syracuse, and Boston College.

VPI shut down all expansion for the time and the Virginia Governor got involved.

The ACC wanted markets and the Hokies didn't offer new markets.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I know the facts.

Gene Corrigan had started the ball rolling along with Paul Dee and then NC State AD Les Robinson. By the time Swofford is made commissioners and starts on the expansion, he is moving ahead at full steam with one problem - he has not specifically checked with Duke's President or UNC Chancellor. He has missed the fact that Duke really doesn't want Syracuse, he thinks the ACC presidents and chancellors are going to do what he reccomends. He will soon find out what Gene Corrigan found out with FSU - the ACC presidents and chancellors can't be told what to do - they will do as they please.

VT held up nothing from the ACC - the could not. UNC and Duke decided that it was in their best interest to give UVa some direct competition and reap the large visiting football crowd from VT, especially since VT's basketball program possed no threat to UNC or Duke.

If UNC did not want VT in the league, all they had to do was make the motion to add Miami and BC. Same with Duke. By telling everyone ahead of time they would be a no vote, that put UVa in the bullseye.

You seem to have forgotten the timeline of how things transpired.

I'm not sure what you mean by mentioning FSU, but if you're talking about why FSU got in the ACC, but Syracuse didn't get in the ACC in '91, it's because we wanted special treatment. I have a source if you don't believe me.

http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_acc.html

Here is some proof for you.

It also didn't help that Clemson and Maryland, teams who did well in the 1980's, did not compete well.

The ACC had teams show signs of growth but never could put it all together. After the 10 year FSU domination, NC State would defeat Florida State and lose to Wake Forest the next week.

Virginia (Walsh), NC State (Amato), UNC (Brown leaves for Texas),...

At the time (spring 2003) the thought was that UVA, NC State and Maryland were all on the upswing. UVA had throttled WVU in the Continental Tire Bowl and Al Groh won ACC Coach Of The Year the previous season. NC State waxed Notre Dame in the Gator Bowl and posted 11 wins. Maryland crushed Tennessee in the Peach Bowl as well.