(06-02-2013 01:42 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  16 is in every division of football except FBS. It's always worked. I do say so. Perhaps you think don't think enough on this subject?

No.

The NCAA FCS playoffs had 20 playoff teams in 2012. For 2013, they're expanding the playoff field to 24 teams (11 autobids and 13 at-large teams). (source)

(06-02-2013 03:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  There's a good chance 16 hurts regular season attendance. That's where the P5 get most of their money. FCS actually has the opposite problem. Some schools draw less for playoff games.

16 teams (or more) in a FBS playoff would provide a good supply of programming for ESPN but would definitely hurt regular-season attendance. Fans of teams that have locked up a playoff spot might skip the last game or two. And because a 16-team playoff would make fans realize just how pointless the remaining bowls are, teams that have no shot at the playoff after a certain point in the season (and are only playing for a bowl) would see their attendance fall off toward the end of the season.

Attendance is slowly eroding anyway because of higher ticket prices and because of the growing appeal of watching at home. A supersized playoff would accelerate the pace of that erosion.

(06-03-2013 10:26 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-02-2013 01:42 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  16 is in every division of football except FBS. It's always worked. I do say so. Perhaps you think don't think enough on this subject?

No.

The NCAA FCS playoffs had 20 playoff teams in 2012. For 2013, they're expanding the playoff field to 24 teams (11 autobids and 13 at-large teams). (source)

(06-02-2013 03:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  There's a good chance 16 hurts regular season attendance. That's where the P5 get most of their money. FCS actually has the opposite problem. Some schools draw less for playoff games.

16 teams (or more) in a FBS playoff would provide a good supply of programming for ESPN but would definitely hurt regular-season attendance. Fans of teams that have locked up a playoff spot might skip the last game or two. And because a 16-team playoff would make fans realize just how pointless the remaining bowls are, teams that have no shot at the playoff after a certain point in the season (and are only playing for a bowl) would see their attendance fall off toward the end of the season.

Attendance is slowly eroding anyway because of higher ticket prices and because of the growing appeal of watching at home. A supersized playoff would accelerate the pace of that erosion.

I disagree. Divisional races would not be decided at the earliest by the 10th game of the season.

The first two weeks would probably tune up games. Then the next 8 weeks would be conference games to make 10 weeks. It would probably week 11 before that happens. That is eleven gamess before the championship game. Therefore, every game counts.

(06-05-2013 03:36 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(06-03-2013 10:26 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-02-2013 01:42 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  16 is in every division of football except FBS. It's always worked. I do say so. Perhaps you think don't think enough on this subject?

No.

The NCAA FCS playoffs had 20 playoff teams in 2012. For 2013, they're expanding the playoff field to 24 teams (11 autobids and 13 at-large teams). (source)

(06-02-2013 03:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  There's a good chance 16 hurts regular season attendance. That's where the P5 get most of their money. FCS actually has the opposite problem. Some schools draw less for playoff games.

16 teams (or more) in a FBS playoff would provide a good supply of programming for ESPN but would definitely hurt regular-season attendance. Fans of teams that have locked up a playoff spot might skip the last game or two. And because a 16-team playoff would make fans realize just how pointless the remaining bowls are, teams that have no shot at the playoff after a certain point in the season (and are only playing for a bowl) would see their attendance fall off toward the end of the season.

Attendance is slowly eroding anyway because of higher ticket prices and because of the growing appeal of watching at home. A supersized playoff would accelerate the pace of that erosion.

I disagree. Divisional races would not be decided at the earliest by the 10th game of the season.

The first two weeks would probably tune up games. Then the next 8 weeks would be conference games to make 10 weeks. It would probably week 11 before that happens. That is eleven gamess before the championship game. Therefore, every game counts.

Not if you can get in as a wildcard with 3 losses. And the conference championship might become irrelevant as conference basketball tournaments are becoming. Maybe a 16 team tournament with 10 conference champs and only 6 wildcards could avoid harming the regular season, but the first round might regularly generate a lot of blowouts.

IMO 3 wildcards (5AQ + 3 WC) isn't going to do any harm to the regular season. Those are pretty good teams. But if you let in non-champs with more than 2 losses, you are degrading the regular season. I've checked it with 8 wildcards and you pretty frequently get 3 loss teams, as well as a lot of 2 loss teams.

You don't need 16 teams to include the best team (or "most deserving"). That, IMO, was the flaw with 2. The best team definitely had a good chance of not even getting to play. Over the last 10 years, there were decent arguments pre-bowl that the best team didn't get in except for 2005 and last year.

Just take the Top 8.

If you aren't in the Top 8, what argument do you have to being the best team in the country regardless of whether or not you won your conference?

(06-05-2013 04:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  But if you let in non-champs with more than 2 losses, you are degrading the regular season.

Agreed. Imagine a late-season rivalry game between two 10-1 teams -- maybe USC-ND or Florida-FSU. If the playoff has enough room for every well-regarded two-loss team, then those games lose most of their meaning. They become about as meaningful as an end-of-regular-season hoops game between UNC and Duke -- the ESPN hype machine gets worked up, but fans know it's just a sideshow that doesn't impact the NCAA tournament.

(06-05-2013 04:25 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just take the Top 8.

If you aren't in the Top 8, what argument do you have to being the best team in the country regardless of whether or not you won your conference?

The #10 team might actually be better than the #5 team though, since most of the top teams don't play top teams from other conferences so the rankings are a crapshoot. You'd probably do okay with 8 most years though. Having only 4 is a joke.

When the new division of P5 begins 8 teams will be plenty

When you look at the G5 in 2014:
Sun Belt 2 teams (NMSU, ULL) have been I-A; 1 team (ASU) moved up in the 80s, 8 teams have moved up since 1995. 2 didn't even play football 5 years ago.
CUSA 3 teams (UTEP, Rice, USM) have been I-A; 1 team (LT) moved up in the 80s, 10 have moved up since 1995. 5 didn't play football prior to the 90s.
MAC 3 teams have stayed I-A, 3 moved down for 1 year in 1982 (original 6-OU/KSU/MU/BG/Toledo/WMU), 4 moved up from Division II in the 70s, 1 moved up from I-AA in the 90s and 2 moved up since then.

AACK! 7 schools have been I-A (UH,Navy,Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Temples), 1 moved down for 1 year in 1982(Cincinnati), 1 moved up from the Southern Conference (ECU), and 3 have moved up since 1995 (USF,UCF,UConn). 2 of those didn't play football until the 90s.

MWC 6 schools have been I-A (NM,AF,CSU,WY,HI,USU), 4 moved up in the early 70s along with a bunch of schools that dropped fb(SDSU,Fresno,SJSU,UNLV), 2 moved up since 1995 (NV, Boise)

The 5 conferences have a substantial number of schools who have only a short time as major football playing schools. That's reflected in their TV value and why we don't need 16 teams just to make room for all of them.

(06-05-2013 04:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  But if you let in non-champs with more than 2 losses, you are degrading the regular season.

College football has been scraping the bottom of the barrel for years now and has been cheapened in so many ways.

(06-05-2013 04:25 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just take the Top 8.

If you aren't in the Top 8, what argument do you have to being the best team in the country regardless of whether or not you won your conference?

You're right. We should also cancel every NCAA basketball tournament except for the NCAA tournament and shrink it to eight teams.