(05-18-2013 05:32 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The solution is simple, you compromise with the NCAA:

-You give us (P5) our own subdivision for FB so we can grow our playoff without having to give bids to any midmajor G5 conference

and in return

-We don't separate from the NCAA and continue to fund their organization via our participation in the tournament (people watch for Cinderella but Cindy aint **** without Prince Charming and his money to fund the Dance)

The few peanuts thrown our way aren't worth it. I'd rather sit and watch your attempt to pull out of the NCAA and amateur sports with all the work it would take and possibility of it severely back-firing as the fans are disgusted in the behavior and the mid-major alumns no longer have interest and either start rooting for NFL/NBA teams or actually start rooting again for their alumnus. Why would the mid-majors make it easy and a for sure thing? For the $2 or $3 million we get from the current system? Nah, we could make that small amount on our own if you guys really do try to break away.

That new league would get boring fast and a lot of the Purdue, Wake Forest, Iowa State, Vanderbilt types would be the new mid-majors never having winning seasons. Wouldn't be long before Texas, Ohio State, Alabama say "hey, why are we sharing our money equally with Wake Forest??" Then it starts over once again. It would be like the wild west with their new rules of spending and the bottom schools wouldn't be able to keep up. It's either that, or for the new league to be successful, fair, and interesting, there would have to be salary caps, recruiting drafts where the worst teams get to draft the 5-star recruits first so they couls be competitive and a balances league so their fans wouldn't abandon them going 0-12 every year, etc. You bet there is a reason why the NFL and NBA have these rules in place, because teams like Tampa Bay (Ole Miss) and Oakland (Wash St) have to be able to win every now and then or their fan base will leave and the team will go under and then the NFL would lose teams and money overall.

Yeah, you can keep your $2 million, and I'd rather wait to watch this play out.

Of course you want us to try and break away completely as it would be the worst possible idea.

What you DONT want is our best solution, because its the best of both worlds for us: staying in the NCAA but forming our own subdivision for football. You dont want that because the midmajors still harbor a dream of turning the cfb playoff into the NCAA tournament where their champ gets an autobid. THAT is exactly what the P5 absolutely do not want and the main reason behind creating the new subdivision: so the playoff can grow but without any midmajors taking away bids.

As for "it will hurt the lower teams" nobody said you cant schedule teams from other subdivisions to pad your record if you want to do that. We do this already with FCS anyway. You can say "we'll just say no" but no you wont. Somebody will take the payday and exposure and then the dam will burst.

(05-21-2013 07:22 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Of course you want us to try and break away completely as it would be the worst possible idea.

What you DONT want is our best solution, because its the best of both worlds for us: staying in the NCAA but forming our own subdivision for football. You dont want that because the midmajors still harbor a dream of turning the cfb playoff into the NCAA tournament where their champ gets an autobid. THAT is exactly what the P5 absolutely do not want and the main reason behind creating the new subdivision: so the playoff can grow but without any midmajors taking away bids.

As for "it will hurt the lower teams" nobody said you cant schedule teams from other subdivisions to pad your record if you want to do that. We do this already with FCS anyway. You can say "we'll just say no" but no you wont. Somebody will take the payday and exposure and then the dam will burst.

But why would we let you create the new subdivision? Answer is we won't and as long as your still under the NCAA you don't have a choice in the matter as there are more of our votes than yours. So you have 2 options, break away outside the NCAA and roll the dice, or quit flapping your gums.

some form of reorganization is going to happen IMO, it's just a matter of time. the CFB playoff will never grow to 12 or 16 because it devalues the regular season & tv won't pay for it

10th Mountain, do you really think that $1 million per team from the new contract is enough of a payday to bride the Go5 with? 1 million? And do you really think 1 million+ couldn't be earned on our own if the P5 truly decides to try and break outside the NCAA?

And the sticking point for you guys is you want to give us less then you already do? Wow, form your NFL-lite and like I said before, there is a reason why the NFL must have rules to allow the worst teams draft first each year and have salary caps because if they didn't, then fan interest and teams would fold. Are you ready for Texas A&M to have to give away their 5 star recruits to Iowa State and only sign 2 star recruits after you just had a great season to keep the league balanced so Iowa State doesn't go 0-12 for the third straight year because they didnt have 3 FCS teams on their schedule ?

@ 10thMountain: What if the mid-major in question is 12-0 with 2-3 top 25 wins and a national ranking of about 6-10? I understand why you don't want an 8-4 mid-major weakening the field, but what if the schools is ACTUALLY qualified?

@ Miami (Oh): Votes can be bought or sold VERY easily. If the P5 want to separate THAT badly they can always take the 64 team field and push it to 75-80. Guess who holds the majority vote then? They do. They hold most of the athletic money anyway, so I don't think that they're as suspect as you're making them out to be.

AAC schools are not your friend in this matter, either - they'll all sell you up-river in no time if it meant that they'd make it in to the "new top division". Ditto that for parts of the MWC (although they're more loyal IMO).

There are only a few more cards the P5 needs to play in order to decimate the G5. They are holding ALL of them. They can assimilate problem-children to seal the break. They can just try to bludgeon you using the media as a weapon. They can economically strangle you via new "NCAA FBS Regulations". The options at their disposal are endless - and remember that they hold POLITICAL power too - so don't expect for your beloved Congress to do anything for the G5.

(05-21-2013 07:45 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 07:22 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Of course you want us to try and break away completely as it would be the worst possible idea.

What you DONT want is our best solution, because its the best of both worlds for us: staying in the NCAA but forming our own subdivision for football. You dont want that because the midmajors still harbor a dream of turning the cfb playoff into the NCAA tournament where their champ gets an autobid. THAT is exactly what the P5 absolutely do not want and the main reason behind creating the new subdivision: so the playoff can grow but without any midmajors taking away bids.

As for "it will hurt the lower teams" nobody said you cant schedule teams from other subdivisions to pad your record if you want to do that. We do this already with FCS anyway. You can say "we'll just say no" but no you wont. Somebody will take the payday and exposure and then the dam will burst.

But why would we let you create the new subdivision? Answer is we won't and as long as your still under the NCAA you don't have a choice in the matter as there are more of our votes than yours. So you have 2 options, break away outside the NCAA and roll the dice, or quit flapping your gums.

They would do just fine outside the NCAA. Schools pushing them out would be the ones to suffer. Losing the NCAA tourney $ would devastate the sports programs in all the remaining NCAA schools. The tourney funds everything.

How could you have a 64-team NCAA tournament when you only have 64-80 teams?

If you have a basketball tournament with the same percentage of teams getting into the tournament that you have in football, and which the powers that be say is plenty of teams, you'd have 1.9 teams in the tournament.

(05-18-2013 05:08 PM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 02:45 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Boy, is Calipari ever the wrong spokesman for this issue. He left 2 programs behind him with NCAA sanctions. Think he's bitter about the NCAA? On top of that he represents the most peanlized program in the history of college basketball. He has absolutely zero credibility on this issue.

Then he complains about the one-and-done rule which has absolutely nothing to do with the NCAA. It's totally an NBA rule. So, he compounds his lack of credibility by coming off as a complete idiot on this matter. John did nothing to advance his cause with this interview.

Might wanna check your stats again, UK is not the most penalized team in NCAA history, though we are certainly the most vilified in the media, especially since Cal has arrived on scene. Not a peep about Lance Thomas/Duke and UNC's ridiculous fake class-gate from anyone. Cal is abrasive to the media, and it certainly doesn't help the case as far as giving him the benefit of the doubt, I know.

Do you know for what Memphis and UMass were sanctioned? Did Calipari have to do with Derrick Rose's SAT (that was passed through by the NCAA CLEARINGHOUSE) and Camby's flirtation with an agent? This is getting overboard. It is more an NBA issue of course, but he's arguing for the NCAA to work alongside the NBA PA on it, to be fair.

I said they were the most penalized basketball program. If you want to challenge that statement, tell me who is. I guarantee you that it's Kentucky.

I was willing to cut Calipari some slack on Camby when he was at UMass because he was not directly tied to the gifts to Camby, but I'm not willing to do it a second time. When it happens once, it's a fluke, or an isolated occurence, we're beginning to see a pattern.

At the very least we can say that Calipari has involved himself with players with questionable ties. We don't know that Calipari is directly involved with any of that, but I'm no longer willing to assume that he's blameless and beyond reproach. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

The point is that Cal should shut up and mind his p's and q's. He's a poor spokesman for this issue and simply looked foolish for blaming one-and-done on the NCAA when it's an NBA rule. With his questionable past, he doesn't do anything to advance the cause.

They are...it not even close...I could put up the Sports Illustrated Kentucky Shame cover or the fact they had that Gambling Scandal back in the 50's.

A 12-0 G5 team will be assured of a spot in their subdivisions playoff and a chance to compete and win their national title.

Again, we do this already when Montana has a great season and recieves a high seed for their subdivisions playoff nobody says "but why don't they get a Sugar Bowl Bid?"

(05-21-2013 09:02 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  A 12-0 G5 team will be assured of a spot in their subdivisions playoff and a chance to compete and win their national title.

Again, we do this already when Montana has a great season and recieves a high seed for their subdivisions playoff nobody says "but why don't they get a Sugar Bowl Bid?"

Because they only play maybe 1 FBS team all year. But Montana might be as good as Indiana, Kansas, Duke, etc.

(05-21-2013 08:13 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  @ 10thMountain: What if the mid-major in question is 12-0 with 2-3 top 25 wins and a national ranking of about 6-10? I understand why you don't want an 8-4 mid-major weakening the field, but what if the schools is ACTUALLY qualified?

@ Miami (Oh): Votes can be bought or sold VERY easily. If the P5 want to separate THAT badly they can always take the 64 team field and push it to 75-80. Guess who holds the majority vote then? They do. They hold most of the athletic money anyway, so I don't think that they're as suspect as you're making them out to be.

AAC schools are not your friend in this matter, either - they'll all sell you up-river in no time if it meant that they'd make it in to the "new top division". Ditto that for parts of the MWC (although they're more loyal IMO).

There are only a few more cards the P5 needs to play in order to decimate the G5. They are holding ALL of them. They can assimilate problem-children to seal the break. They can just try to bludgeon you using the media as a weapon. They can economically strangle you via new "NCAA FBS Regulations". The options at their disposal are endless - and remember that they hold POLITICAL power too - so don't expect for your beloved Congress to do anything for the G5.

The NCAA is made up of all schools, there are like 400 D1 basketball programs alone. Are you saying they are gonna buy like 500 votes? I dont think so. Again, either break away completely from the NCAA or just quit talking and trying to intimidate the rest of the NCAA schools. The P5 has already taken so much away, there is nothing left to hold over the remaining school's head.

(05-21-2013 07:22 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  What you DONT want is our best solution, because its the best of both worlds for us: staying in the NCAA but forming our own subdivision for football. You dont want that because the midmajors still harbor a dream of turning the cfb playoff into the NCAA tournament where their champ gets an autobid. THAT is exactly what the P5 absolutely do not want and the main reason behind creating the new subdivision: so the playoff can grow but without any midmajors taking away bids.

You are correct. The P5 football powers dread the idea of the top Go5 team being given an opportunity to compete with them for a national title. God forbid a Go5 school might win the whole thing, and history has shown the top Go5 teams can compete with the top P5 teams. It happened with Utah, it happened with TCU and it happened with Boise State. And even if the P5 continues to assimilate the best Go5 programs, new Go5 challengers will continue to arise, simply because the NCAA limits on scholarships and coaching staffs prevent P5 schools from monopolizing the best player and coaching talent in the country.

What's not clear is whether the P5 football powers will get their way. As others have pointed out, a new P5-only subdivision will not only hurt the Go5 schools. It will also hurt the lower echelon teams in the P5, many of whom will no longer be able to post 7-5 and 6-6 records and qualify for bowl games. The biggest obstacle to a new subdivision won't be the Go5. It will be the presidents of the schools with the bottom 35 football programs in the P5.

Edit: Also keep in mind that the creation of a new subdivision will likely result in the shutdown of many existing bowl games. The Go5 will almost certainly shift to a playoff, and a 70-school P5 will average no more than 40 with .500 or better records. No fan or network is going to pay to see bowl games featuring losing teams. That means 20 bowls max, including the playoff semifinal bowls. Who is going to have a problem with the other 15 bowls going away? The communities that sponsor them? The charities that benefit from them? The politicians who represent those communities and charities? ESPN, which televises most of them and actually owns quite a few? I would guess all of the above.

Kentucky and Mr. One & Done can expect a recruiting and graduation rate investigation soon. Calipari already has an NCAA target on his back, he is just making it bigger.

(05-21-2013 11:36 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Kentucky and Mr. One & Done can expect a recruiting and graduation rate investigation soon. Calipari already has an NCAA target on his back, he is just making it bigger.

The graduation rate is going to be a killer for Kentucky eventually. The NCAA does have standards for graduation rates and academics. That's what kept UConn out of the NCAA tourney not too long ago...

(05-17-2013 03:23 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  This is all Robert Morris' fault

Maybe Kentucky needs to leave southern hospitality behind and travel to these small schools once in a while

(05-21-2013 09:02 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  A 12-0 G5 team will be assured of a spot in their subdivisions playoff and a chance to compete and win their national title.

Again, we do this already when Montana has a great season and recieves a high seed for their subdivisions playoff nobody says "but why don't they get a Sugar Bowl Bid?"

This issue here is there are school that are better than some that were gifted to be I the club, but haven't done crap with it. What about those teams that are in the 30-50 million range in the ACC and the MWC? Fresno St., Boise, Cinny, UCF, USF, ECU, UCONN, BYU and others that have proven they can complete with the "big boys". The ONLY damn thing holding them back is not being in the club.

(05-21-2013 12:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 11:36 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Kentucky and Mr. One & Done can expect a recruiting and graduation rate investigation soon. Calipari already has an NCAA target on his back, he is just making it bigger.

The graduation rate is going to be a killer for Kentucky eventually. The NCAA does have standards for graduation rates and academics. That's what kept UConn out of the NCAA tourney not too long ago...

I think our guys are doing a lot better than the public perception, as far as grades as they're in school, and the initiative to come back and complete coursework. There is a big drive for the guys to come back on their free time, matter of fact, Jodie Meeks just got here a couple days ago; some are more aggressively doing it than others, but I think steps have been made by every single guy that's left early for the league under Calipari, with one sole exception, who couldn't get out of school quick enough apparently.

GPA has been very good almost every semester of his tenure as well, again there's been maybe one guy that's dragged along and wasn't interested in class that I know of, everyone else has done pretty great work, it's been a great positive, because there wasn't as huge a factor in classwork in the past, some kids didn't take class too seriously. This staff is very on top of the academics of the team, coach and team has a book club and do lots of study, it's very cool stuff but we don't hear much about it unless you're right there, it obviously isn't headline news in the sports world. That's usually "Cal is Satan, he singlehandedly created the one and done rule, he holds a gun to kids' heads and makes them leave school when they're begging to stay, he must be cheating, Robert Morris LOL", etc etc. :)

(05-21-2013 09:02 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  A 12-0 G5 team will be assured of a spot in their subdivisions playoff and a chance to compete and win their national title.

Again, we do this already when Montana has a great season and recieves a high seed for their subdivisions playoff nobody says "but why don't they get a Sugar Bowl Bid?"

Montana is happy with FCS because Montana decided that's where they wanted to be.

I think its cute you think the schools or conferences are calling the shots. Like I said before, tv is the Big Daddy Warbucks. TV doesn't want the split. They are not stupid. You don't improve your ratings by alienating half college football audience (65 team fanbases). Watch how advertisers run for the exits the moment a tiny group gets a little angry over something said on a radio show or television program.

Sure, maybe they trim FBS a bit to insure quality---I'm thinking 80-100 teams. My guess is tv will want about 100. They need enough inventory to fill all those 24 hour sports networks and conference networks.