(04-27-2013 01:13 AM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  Goldsmith still recruited better than Bailiff, even though Bailiff has hauled in some gems. One still has to wonder if Vance could have been more productive as an Owl with better tutelage and scheme.

Okay let's be honest here, Goldsmith recruited to the SWC and Bailiff recruits to CUSA. And Bailiff's recruiting has improved every year. All things being equal, Bailiff would be an equal or better recruiter than Goldsmith, IMO.

I think the tutelage was clearly of high quality. I think the utilization was lacking. Of course, there are probably half a dozen or more pro teams that wouldn't fully utilize Vance's or Sam's skills either... the difference is, THEY aren't playing in front of 10,000 fans against a declining revenue stream.

Heck, the 49'ers retooled their offense mid-stream to take advantage of the unique skills of their QB and rode it to a Superbowl. It's not as if the had a weak QB to start the season, and when he went down with a concussion, not a broken leg, but a concussion, they didn't force the new guy into the same scheme. When the original guy got healthy, they kept him on the bench anyway. Sure, perhaps it was their plan anyway... but no doubt, this is an example of a team willing to think outside of the same old playbook that everyone else uses.

Will all of the guys like the WV QB and Vince Young and Michael Vick and Johnny Football, and even to a lesser degree, McHargue and Clement lighting up college, and Vick showing flashes in the pros and now Kapernic translating that into a superbowl, it won't be long before LOTS of teams in the NFL covet these multi-dimensional QBs (and TE's) who can stress defenses in unique ways.

THIS is the wave of the future... and hopefully with Casey and Vance and Luke in the pro's, we can continue to recruit these unique athletes.... we just have to do a better job of utlizing them. The impact in college can be MASSIVE. PARTICULARLY in anything but the top 20 teams, as the linebackers are generally slower and the safeties are generally smaller. Guys like Casey and Vance and Luke can create MASSIVE mismatches in CUSA that may be only slight advantages in the pros.

The first round pick of the Texans was a 6'1 WR who ran a 4.57 at the combine. What did Sam run?

Maybe we should copy SF. Some of these west coast guys know a little about innovative offensive football.

There are two different skill sets.
One set involves becoming a better football player. Those were developed here and are what the NFL drafts.
The other set involves doing the things as a team to win football games, the "little things" that Bryant used to obsess about. Those were not well developed here. They will be in San Francisco.

(04-27-2013 12:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think the tutelage was clearly of high quality. I think the utilization was lacking. Of course, there are probably half a dozen or more pro teams that wouldn't fully utilize Vance's or Sam's skills either... the difference is, THEY aren't playing in front of 10,000 fans against a declining revenue stream.

Heck, the 49'ers retooled their offense mid-stream to take advantage of the unique skills of their QB and rode it to a Superbowl. It's not as if the had a weak QB to start the season, and when he went down with a concussion, not a broken leg, but a concussion, they didn't force the new guy into the same scheme. When the original guy got healthy, they kept him on the bench anyway. Sure, perhaps it was their plan anyway... but no doubt, this is an example of a team willing to think outside of the same old playbook that everyone else uses.

Will all of the guys like the WV QB and Vince Young and Michael Vick and Johnny Football, and even to a lesser degree, McHargue and Clement lighting up college, and Vick showing flashes in the pros and now Kapernic translating that into a superbowl, it won't be long before LOTS of teams in the NFL covet these multi-dimensional QBs (and TE's) who can stress defenses in unique ways.

THIS is the wave of the future... and hopefully with Casey and Vance and Luke in the pro's, we can continue to recruit these unique athletes.... we just have to do a better job of utlizing them. The impact in college can be MASSIVE. PARTICULARLY in anything but the top 20 teams, as the linebackers are generally slower and the safeties are generally smaller. Guys like Casey and Vance and Luke can create MASSIVE mismatches in CUSA that may be only slight advantages in the pros.

The first round pick of the Texans was a 6'1 WR who ran a 4.57 at the combine. What did Sam run?

Maybe we should copy SF. Some of these west coast guys know a little about innovative offensive football.

I agree...it would appear that David Sloane on the staff is paying big dividends. Having an NFL All Pro TE has benefited Vance and Luke. Hopefully it will continue with Eddington. But as you point out utilization of TE's has been a weak point through most of Baliff's tenure.

(04-27-2013 01:54 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I agree...it would appear that David Sloane on the staff is paying big dividends. Having an NFL All Pro TE has benefited Vance and Luke. Hopefully it will continue with Eddington. But as you point out utilization of TE's has been a weak point through most of Baliff's tenure.

It was pretty strong in 2008, so my guess is this is largely a function of weak QB play since then.

^^ And of course when I say, "maybe Rice will start getting some pub as Tight End U," I mean that this is one of the areas where Rice's Athletic Department fails me. I know it's hard work (I've done it many many times), but a subject can generate its own press. In other words, create your own pub, Rice. Interview Casey, interview Sloan, interview Vance, interview Luke, interview Bailiff, interview Harbaugh in SF, interview Carroll in Seattle, interview Kelly in Philly (he's already talking about his new TE plans; see below). Craft a story. Write the story. Pitch it, feed it, place it. In SI. On ESPN. In the Chron. In the NYT. With the AP. All over the web. Etc, etc. Yes, it's a ton of work. But for those that haven't worked the spin rooms, it's infinitely do-able. Don't wait for funding and wins and fans that may never come; use the media pulpit to effect the public's perception of "little old Rice," or as we've become, "little old Sunbelt Rice." It works. And it kills me when we don't maximize a gift-wrapped PR story like this. 2-star recruit to 2nd-round pick?? Where the NFC Champions traded up to snag him?? Right after another Rice TE was the top off-season target of Philly's new wonderboy, the most innovative offensive mind in football?? I mean, c'mon, man. That's gold. You don't think that helps get recruits?? You don't think that puts butts in seats?? You don't think that helps with conference realignment?? Perception is truth, Rice. Stop missing opportunities. Do the legwork. Rev up the PR machine. It's the wise man's sandwich board. Unconventional wisdom. Change the perception. Change the truth. Or not...

CHIP KELLY DISCUSSES DOMINATING WITH 3 TIGHT ENDS

(04-27-2013 11:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But every additional pass thrown his way would be one less thrown to Willson, Cook, Taylor, and McG, or one less carry for Ross, Eddington, and the rest of our talented RBs. There is only one football, and when we have such a wide array of talent, we need to spread it around.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this argument if we didn't have huge numbers of 3 and outs in being uncompetitive against UCLA, UH, and La Tech.

(04-27-2013 04:45 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 11:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But every additional pass thrown his way would be one less thrown to Willson, Cook, Taylor, and McG, or one less carry for Ross, Eddington, and the rest of our talented RBs. There is only one football, and when we have such a wide array of talent, we need to spread it around.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this argument if we didn't have huge numbers of 3 and outs in being uncompetitive against UCLA, UH, and La Tech.

Indeed, if it were thrown his way on third down and picked up a first down, that would be not one less but three MORE opportunities to get the ball to Wilson, Cook, Taylor, McGuffie, or Ross or Eddington.

(04-27-2013 04:45 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 11:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But every additional pass thrown his way would be one less thrown to Willson, Cook, Taylor, and McG, or one less carry for Ross, Eddington, and the rest of our talented RBs. There is only one football, and when we have such a wide array of talent, we need to spread it around.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this argument if we didn't have huge numbers of 3 and outs in being uncompetitive against UCLA, UH, and La Tech.

True, if we went to McD on every third down, we would always make the first down and the defense would never catch on.

Remember the records we had when we went to Butler all the time, or Houser? Is anyone seriously saying we needed to concentrate the third down offense to one obvious choice all the time?

(04-27-2013 06:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Remember the records we had when we went to Butler all the time, or Houser? Is anyone seriously saying we needed to concentrate the third down offense to one obvious choice all the time?

No, I am saying something different. I am saying that we pissed away a bunch of games screwing around with the Wild Owl when our base offense had talent that was far superior to the teams trying to defend it.

McDonald and Willson were drafted, collectively, higher than Casey and Dillard. Yet their production, and that of the whole offense, was much much lower than the 2008 team.

Heck, Taylor Cook signed a pro contract and had only 10 catches.

(04-27-2013 12:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Heck, the 49'ers retooled their offense mid-stream to take advantage of the unique skills of their QB and rode it to a Superbowl. It's not as if the had a weak QB to start the season, and when he went down with a concussion, not a broken leg, but a concussion, they didn't force the new guy into the same scheme. When the original guy got healthy, they kept him on the bench anyway. Sure, perhaps it was their plan anyway... but no doubt, this is an example of a team willing to think outside of the same old playbook that everyone else uses.

Taking a leaf out of the 49ers playbook, after the bowl win, maybe Jackson will be our new starter.

(04-29-2013 08:38 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 12:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Heck, the 49'ers retooled their offense mid-stream to take advantage of the unique skills of their QB and rode it to a Superbowl. It's not as if the had a weak QB to start the season, and when he went down with a concussion, not a broken leg, but a concussion, they didn't force the new guy into the same scheme. When the original guy got healthy, they kept him on the bench anyway. Sure, perhaps it was their plan anyway... but no doubt, this is an example of a team willing to think outside of the same old playbook that everyone else uses.

Taking a leaf out of the 49ers playbook, after the bowl win, maybe Jackson will be our new starter.

I hope that decision will be made after spring practice or maybe in early August, but I agree that he deserves a look.

(04-27-2013 03:24 PM)smackdaddy Wrote:  ^^ And of course when I say, "maybe Rice will start getting some pub as Tight End U," I mean that this is one of the areas where Rice's Athletic Department fails me. I know it's hard work (I've done it many many times), but a subject can generate its own press. In other words, create your own pub, Rice. Interview Casey, interview Sloan, interview Vance, interview Luke, interview Bailiff, interview Harbaugh in SF, interview Carroll in Seattle, interview Kelly in Philly (he's already talking about his new TE plans; see below). Craft a story. Write the story. Pitch it, feed it, place it. In SI. On ESPN. In the Chron. In the NYT. With the AP. All over the web. Etc, etc. Yes, it's a ton of work. But for those that haven't worked the spin rooms, it's infinitely do-able. Don't wait for funding and wins and fans that may never come; use the media pulpit to effect the public's perception of "little old Rice," or as we've become, "little old Sunbelt Rice." It works. And it kills me when we don't maximize a gift-wrapped PR story like this. 2-star recruit to 2nd-round pick?? Where the NFC Champions traded up to snag him?? Right after another Rice TE was the top off-season target of Philly's new wonderboy, the most innovative offensive mind in football?? I mean, c'mon, man. That's gold. You don't think that helps get recruits?? You don't think that puts butts in seats?? You don't think that helps with conference realignment?? Perception is truth, Rice. Stop missing opportunities. Do the legwork. Rev up the PR machine. It's the wise man's sandwich board. Unconventional wisdom. Change the perception. Change the truth. Or not...

CHIP KELLY DISCUSSES DOMINATING WITH 3 TIGHT ENDS

excellent post. Agree!

(04-28-2013 12:51 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I am saying that we pissed away a bunch of games screwing around with the Wild Owl....

yep.

Really? Our base offense was that effective?

I believe a large part of the lack of production is due to QB play. Not to disrespect McHargue or Jackson, they are both good QBs and i am very happy to have them, but Chase Clement was a phenomenal college talent who could get the ball to anyone at any time.

(04-29-2013 11:20 AM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 12:51 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I am saying that we pissed away a bunch of games screwing around with the Wild Owl....

yep.

What I don't understand is why the Wild Owl that was so effective one year was so ineffective the next.

(04-29-2013 11:20 AM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 12:51 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I am saying that we pissed away a bunch of games screwing around with the Wild Owl....

yep.

I 100% blame the Tulsa loss on that and if you look at that old game thread, you will see me raving about how we need to stop it immediately

(04-29-2013 12:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 11:20 AM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 12:51 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I am saying that we pissed away a bunch of games screwing around with the Wild Owl....

yep.

What I don't understand is why the Wild Owl that was so effective one year was so ineffective the next.

Sadly, I ask the same question about everything else Rice football each year. What works in the latter half of the season is somehow forgotten by the start of the next season.

(04-29-2013 01:26 PM)07owl Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 11:20 AM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 12:51 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I am saying that we pissed away a bunch of games screwing around with the Wild Owl....

yep.

I 100% blame the Tulsa loss on that and if you look at that old game thread, you will see me raving about how we need to stop it immediately

The Tulsa loss was on running the WildOwl, in which Luke Turner rushes for over 100 yards and 6.8 ypc?

And not... say, our base offense, where McHargue was 15-35 with an INT and a couple horrible sacks in Tulsa territory that cost us points?