Just a clarification, Murphy and staff DO try to recruit high school players just look at the scouting of Bishop Robinson, the number of offers made, aren't Ray Lee and Jalen Ross high school players?

The fact is Murphy and staff try to take the best talent available.
That's their job.

It appears the MAC West is cursed with all sorts of issues these past two years.

I find it interesting that some WMU fans want to throw Hawkins under the bus after an NIT appearance and winning the MAC West because Paul is leaving.

Again, the acting AD and new AD need to have a heart to heart with Murphy and his staff re background checks and what type of athlete is coming into the program.

(04-25-2013 09:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:09 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:02 AM)Dennis Hoopster Wrote:  WHY CAN'T HE RECRUIT HS TALENT?

Interesting question.

i assume it's because high school players take longer to develop and he's looking for a quick ticket out of town.

I think it is because our program has been mediocre for so many years that our reputation locally is not good.

Remember, the last time we were in the NCAAs was March 1998, 15 years ago.

Some of the h.s. players Hoopster wants us to get were just out of diapers (and the rising junior class was still in diapers) during the Boykins, Dial, etc. era.

In the ensuing 15 years EMU students, Ypsilanti locals, Hoopster, posters here have been turned off by EMU hoops.

If Hoopster and others are 'on and off' the EMU bandwagon why would Martez Walker, Kahlid Felder, etc be on the bandwagon???

I read poster sentiment and assume it is a 'microcosm' of what Detroit PSL coaches, Detroit sports media, Detroit area players, etc. think.

We are all observers of the same product: EMU men's basketball.

If we, many of whom 'bleed green' are 'off the bandwagon' then things are dire for us in Southeast MI.

We need wins to refurbish our image.

We'd need to go 'beyond our borders' and look for recruits who will take a FRESH LOOK at Murphy and the program.

P.S. EVERYONE knows this: You take a Detroit athlete and ask him what he thinks of EMU (fill in the sport), EMU's campus and EMU's athletic facilities and get his reaction.

THEN, take that same athlete on a tour of the campus and the athletic facilities and he'll say: "I never would have thought (the campus and facilities were so nice).

EMU has an image problem which diminishes once folks step on campus and put their preconceived notions to reality...

P.S. Don't we have the same problem in FB? Don't we have real problems recruiting in MI?

Doesn't that suggest the problem is not just a men's basketball program problem, per se???

(04-25-2013 09:51 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:09 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:02 AM)Dennis Hoopster Wrote:  WHY CAN'T HE RECRUIT HS TALENT?

Interesting question.

i assume it's because high school players take longer to develop and he's looking for a quick ticket out of town.

I think it is because our program has been mediocre for so many years that our reputation locally is not good.

Remember, the last time we were in the NCAAs was March 1998, 15 years ago.

Some of the h.s. players Hoopster wants us to get were just out of diapers (and the rising junior class was still in diapers) during the Boykins, Dial, etc. era.

In the ensuing 15 years EMU students, Ypsilanti locals, Hoopster, posters here have been turned off by EMU hoops.

If Hoopster and others are 'on and off' the EMU bandwagon why would Martez Walker, Kahlid Felder, etc be on the bandwagon???

I read poster sentiment and assume it is a 'microcosm' of what Detroit PSL coaches, Detroit sports media, Detroit area players, etc. think.

We are all observers of the same product: EMU men's basketball.

If we, many of whom 'bleed green' are 'off the bandwagon' then things are dire for us in Southeast MI.

We need wins to refurbish our image.

We'd need to go 'beyond our borders' and look for recruits who will take a FRESH LOOK at Murphy and the program.

P.S. EVERYONE knows this: You take a Detroit athlete and ask him what he thinks of EMU (fill in the sport), EMU's campus and EMU's athletic facilities and get his reaction.

THEN, take that same athlete on a tour of the campus and the athletic facilities and he'll say: "I never would have thought (the campus and facilities were so nice).

EMU has an image problem which diminishes once folks step on campus and put their preconceived notions to reality...

P.S. Don't we have the same problem in FB? Don't we have real problems recruiting in MI?

Doesn't that suggest the problem is not just a men's basketball program problem, per se???

i agree with everything you said. we have a problem with poor perception, and i'm sure a lot of well-regarded HS players choose Oakland, WMU and maybe Detroit as a result. but, even Ramsey was getting high school players, so my impression is that Murphy chooses to look at JUCO/transfers instead of high school players. if this works and he wins the MAC then i think we'll all be happy, but right now we have one player in prison and one that seems to be destined for prison and no wins to show for it. it's frustrating. we all want to root for a winning team where the players seem like decent people, and right now we don't have that.

Aaron, I was typing a response to Steve that mirrored what you wrote... Until my browser crashed and I lost it all. Only thing I don't know about is the point about Ramsey's ability to get preps who are legitimate MAC players outside of Dumes, Medlock, Dobbins, and Bowdry. And three of them were in one class if memory correctly serves me. Ramsey had a ton of transfers. Most did not do well.

Thing is Eastern's coach (whomever it is, in hoops or fb!!!!) needs to get lucky and get some players who are overlooked. See: CMU Kaman, WMU Reitz, WMU Gary, WMU Kool, EMU Medlock. CMU Lefevour (B Kelly played a factor, I know). UDM and OU get theirs. Those players who would come to EMU have to get passed by those two teams and some other more sucessful MAC teams first. So it's a "have-to-hit-on-a-few-hidden-gem" type game Murphy needs to play in recruiting. OR go with transfers, which sucks. But he may be looking to build short term by supplementing talent with transfers.

I'm not as much concerned with wins and losses (obviously I'd like a winning foootball and basketball program), but what I am concerned with is ensuring that EMU is represented by good solid student athletes. Now, every once in awhile I could see a kid making a mistake; an arrest for underage drinking that sort of thing but what we've seen out of Murphy's kids goes well beyond the typical mistakes made by college students. He has jeopardized our school's reputation and has never commented or explained himself. Just a short side note, I know many people who work for EMU, from faculty to administrators and I speak with them regularly. All of them, and I mean all of them talk about the vast difference between a man of character like Ron English and a man with no character like Rob Murphy. The way that English has handled players who have broken the rules has been swift and harsh. If you talk to his players they will tell you how much they respect him, not like him although I'm sure they do. But they respect him, they don't want to dissapoint him, they don't want to embarrass him or EMU. Not only do Murphy's kids not respect him, they don't respenct EMU, they are immature products of poor parenting (not all of them) but too many of them and now EMU is paying the price. Murphy must be fired, the only reason this isn't a bigger story is because of the lack of interest in EMU sports. If this was any other divison 1 school there would be people calling for Murphy's job. Gragg skipped town, its time to send Murphy on his way and as painful as it is start the rebuilding process all over again. I can't hardly cheer on a team made up of criminals and half-wits. How does a coach recruit a kid awaiting a felony trial in Rhode Island, a kid charged with rape in West Virginia, a kid charged with rape in Arkansas and the athletic director and President of the University have nothing to say. This isn't to mention all the off the court problems that haven't made the head-lines that would blow people's minds. I hope people start to see Murphy for what he is; an egotistical dirtbag with no respect for higher education, EMU or morality. Here's hoping he finds another job.

(04-25-2013 10:51 AM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  Only thing I don't know about is the point about Ramsey's ability to get preps who are legitimate MAC players outside of Dumes, Medlock, Dobbins, and Bowdry. And three of them were in one class if memory correctly serves me. Ramsey had a ton of transfers. Most did not do well.

i agree. my point is that even Ramsey - a total failure - was able to get high school players, so it's not impossible to get high school players to come to EMU. our school's poor perception (made worse by the Still and Bryant situations) makes it difficult to get high school players, but it does not make it impossible.

and apologies for derailing this thread. i don't mean to get into a high school vs JUCO/transfer debate. the big issue (in my mind) is the University's response to Murphy now that Still is in prison and Bryant has felony charges pending against him.

(04-25-2013 09:51 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:09 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:02 AM)Dennis Hoopster Wrote:  WHY CAN'T HE RECRUIT HS TALENT?

Interesting question.

i assume it's because high school players take longer to develop and he's looking for a quick ticket out of town.

I think it is because our program has been mediocre for so many years that our reputation locally is not good.

Remember, the last time we were in the NCAAs was March 1998, 15 years ago.

Some of the h.s. players Hoopster wants us to get were just out of diapers (and the rising junior class was still in diapers) during the Boykins, Dial, etc. era.

In the ensuing 15 years EMU students, Ypsilanti locals, Hoopster, posters here have been turned off by EMU hoops.

If Hoopster and others are 'on and off' the EMU bandwagon why would Martez Walker, Kahlid Felder, etc be on the bandwagon???

I read poster sentiment and assume it is a 'microcosm' of what Detroit PSL coaches, Detroit sports media, Detroit area players, etc. think.

We are all observers of the same product: EMU men's basketball.

If we, many of whom 'bleed green' are 'off the bandwagon' then things are dire for us in Southeast MI.

We need wins to refurbish our image.

We'd need to go 'beyond our borders' and look for recruits who will take a FRESH LOOK at Murphy and the program.

P.S. EVERYONE knows this: You take a Detroit athlete and ask him what he thinks of EMU (fill in the sport), EMU's campus and EMU's athletic facilities and get his reaction.

THEN, take that same athlete on a tour of the campus and the athletic facilities and he'll say: "I never would have thought (the campus and facilities were so nice).

EMU has an image problem which diminishes once folks step on campus and put their preconceived notions to reality...

P.S. Don't we have the same problem in FB? Don't we have real problems recruiting in MI?

Doesn't that suggest the problem is not just a men's basketball program problem, per se???

I completely agree. It is an image problem that stems even further than athletics. When telling people where I went to school, I have received many eye rolls and blank stairs(many while in the Ann Arbor area). It is disheartening that this "perception" of EMU is so negative, but the true EMU supporters of this page and elsewhere need to keep the faith in the coaches and leaders of the university, that in time this "perception" will begin to improve.


I also found this twitter exchange between Ray Lee and Glenn Bryant to be worrisome. It explains a lot of about both of them and where these actions have derived from. It is sick that these are they type of things that some young college students and athletes believe.

https://twitter.com/RayLee15/status/324647397827432449

(04-25-2013 11:11 AM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:51 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:09 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:02 AM)Dennis Hoopster Wrote:  WHY CAN'T HE RECRUIT HS TALENT?

Interesting question.

i assume it's because high school players take longer to develop and he's looking for a quick ticket out of town.

I think it is because our program has been mediocre for so many years that our reputation locally is not good.

Remember, the last time we were in the NCAAs was March 1998, 15 years ago.

Some of the h.s. players Hoopster wants us to get were just out of diapers (and the rising junior class was still in diapers) during the Boykins, Dial, etc. era.

In the ensuing 15 years EMU students, Ypsilanti locals, Hoopster, posters here have been turned off by EMU hoops.

If Hoopster and others are 'on and off' the EMU bandwagon why would Martez Walker, Kahlid Felder, etc be on the bandwagon???

I read poster sentiment and assume it is a 'microcosm' of what Detroit PSL coaches, Detroit sports media, Detroit area players, etc. think.

We are all observers of the same product: EMU men's basketball.

If we, many of whom 'bleed green' are 'off the bandwagon' then things are dire for us in Southeast MI.

We need wins to refurbish our image.

We'd need to go 'beyond our borders' and look for recruits who will take a FRESH LOOK at Murphy and the program.

P.S. EVERYONE knows this: You take a Detroit athlete and ask him what he thinks of EMU (fill in the sport), EMU's campus and EMU's athletic facilities and get his reaction.

THEN, take that same athlete on a tour of the campus and the athletic facilities and he'll say: "I never would have thought (the campus and facilities were so nice).

EMU has an image problem which diminishes once folks step on campus and put their preconceived notions to reality...

P.S. Don't we have the same problem in FB? Don't we have real problems recruiting in MI?

Doesn't that suggest the problem is not just a men's basketball program problem, per se???

I completely agree. It is an image problem that stems even further than athletics. When telling people where I went to school, I have received many eye rolls and blank stairs(many while in the Ann Arbor area). It is disheartening that this "perception" of EMU is so negative, but the true EMU supporters of this page and elsewhere need to keep the faith in the coaches and leaders of the university, that in time this "perception" will begin to improve.


I also found this twitter exchange between Ray Lee and Glenn Bryant to be worrisome. It explains a lot of about both of them and where these actions have derived from. It is sick that these are they type of things that some young college students and athletes believe.

https://twitter.com/RayLee15/status/324647397827432449

SAD, SAD, SAD - WONDER WHAT MURPHY THINKS, HE BROUGHT BOTH OF THEM HERE!

(04-25-2013 10:51 AM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  Aaron, I was typing a response to Steve that mirrored what you wrote... Until my browser crashed and I lost it all. Only thing I don't know about is the point about Ramsey's ability to get preps who are legitimate MAC players outside of Dumes, Medlock, Dobbins, and Bowdry. And three of them were in one class if memory correctly serves me. Ramsey had a ton of transfers. Most did not do well.

Ah, Ramsey recruited well INITIALLY (or got lucky) and then things dried up and when he left the cupboard was bare, bare, bare...

Hence, Murphy reached for Austin Harper, hoping to have a legitimate PG (he didn't know that Lamps would prove to be an effective PG).

And had to 'reach' and take some risks to try to build the program.

(04-25-2013 12:00 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 10:51 AM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  Aaron, I was typing a response to Steve that mirrored what you wrote... Until my browser crashed and I lost it all. Only thing I don't know about is the point about Ramsey's ability to get preps who are legitimate MAC players outside of Dumes, Medlock, Dobbins, and Bowdry. And three of them were in one class if memory correctly serves me. Ramsey had a ton of transfers. Most did not do well.

Ah, Ramsey recruited well INITIALLY (or got lucky) and then things dried up and when he left the cupboard was bare, bare, bare...

Hence, Murphy reached for Austin Harper, hoping to have a legitimate PG (he didn't know that Lamps would prove to be an effective PG).

And had to 'reach' and take some risks to try to build the program.

Yeah it seems Rams got by on his ties to Braun and Mich. but t hen water found its level, he turned every player against him (remember him screaming in the faces of his players during timeouts? -- See Dumes), and any well he had with hs coaches/players dried up.

As for Murphy going forward, I wouldn't be surprised if the new ad came in and cleaned him out confiding this Bryant thing. Or Martin will do it before and be able to sell a new AD on installing his/her own. Murphy will then fall into the Gino Smith, Still, Richard Franklin (fb), Okoro, types who had potential and got caught up in legal trouble/off field stuff.

(04-25-2013 09:27 AM)emu79 Wrote:  It appears the MAC West is cursed with all sorts of issues these past two years.

And Hoopster sent this to me: "Only at EMU do these incidents seem to happen."

But is it the MAC, i guess mostly the West, which is really struggling?:

1). CMU fires Ziegler and Trey transfers to Pitt,

2). Toledo gets busted by the NCAA and can't go to the NCAAs or even the MAC tourney.

3) Alex Abreau gets busted late in the season,

4). Potential superstar, Darius Paul, decides to leave WMU for greener pastures.

5). GBIII gets busted. Still in November gets set down.

This could be why MAC men's hoops is really struggling. Lot of programs have gone through some bad experiences... I've listed 5 of 12 programs to take hits. There could be more, esp. in the MAC East which I could easily miss...

Murphy is done. No way he survives this mess. Will anyone even notice when he's gone?

(04-25-2013 12:58 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Murphy is done. No way he survives this mess. Will anyone even notice when he's gone?

Hopefully top light aau and hs coaches. Agreed, he's got go be done if this Bryant mess is actually true. Cannot afford anymore legal problems.

(04-25-2013 01:20 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 12:58 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Murphy is done. No way he survives this mess. Will anyone even notice when he's gone?

Hopefully top light aau and hs coaches. Agreed, he's got go be done if this Bryant mess is actually true. Cannot afford anymore legal problems.

I hope no one here is an attorney. If so, they should rip up their law degree.

Do we want to pay off 3 years of future salary?

NO WAY can Murphy get fired FOR CAUSE.

While Murphy can be blamed for the Still incident, whatever Bryant did or whatever happens to him, is BRYANT's problem not Murphys.

Can't fire someone for the prospective activities of someone he recruited.

Also, Still's problems had to be known to the EMU AD and the AD (and probably a lot higher) must have signed off.

Bryant had a blemish on his record at Arkansas (2 game suspension) but it isn't like he committed a felony there.

(04-25-2013 11:11 AM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:51 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:09 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 09:02 AM)Dennis Hoopster Wrote:  WHY CAN'T HE RECRUIT HS TALENT?

Interesting question.

i assume it's because high school players take longer to develop and he's looking for a quick ticket out of town.

I think it is because our program has been mediocre for so many years that our reputation locally is not good.

Remember, the last time we were in the NCAAs was March 1998, 15 years ago.

Some of the h.s. players Hoopster wants us to get were just out of diapers (and the rising junior class was still in diapers) during the Boykins, Dial, etc. era.

In the ensuing 15 years EMU students, Ypsilanti locals, Hoopster, posters here have been turned off by EMU hoops.

If Hoopster and others are 'on and off' the EMU bandwagon why would Martez Walker, Kahlid Felder, etc be on the bandwagon???

I read poster sentiment and assume it is a 'microcosm' of what Detroit PSL coaches, Detroit sports media, Detroit area players, etc. think.

We are all observers of the same product: EMU men's basketball.

If we, many of whom 'bleed green' are 'off the bandwagon' then things are dire for us in Southeast MI.

We need wins to refurbish our image.

We'd need to go 'beyond our borders' and look for recruits who will take a FRESH LOOK at Murphy and the program.

P.S. EVERYONE knows this: You take a Detroit athlete and ask him what he thinks of EMU (fill in the sport), EMU's campus and EMU's athletic facilities and get his reaction.

THEN, take that same athlete on a tour of the campus and the athletic facilities and he'll say: "I never would have thought (the campus and facilities were so nice).

EMU has an image problem which diminishes once folks step on campus and put their preconceived notions to reality...

P.S. Don't we have the same problem in FB? Don't we have real problems recruiting in MI?

Doesn't that suggest the problem is not just a men's basketball program problem, per se???

I completely agree. It is an image problem that stems even further than athletics. When telling people where I went to school, I have received many eye rolls and blank stairs(many while in the Ann Arbor area). It is disheartening that this "perception" of EMU is so negative, but the true EMU supporters of this page and elsewhere need to keep the faith in the coaches and leaders of the university, that in time this "perception" will begin to improve.


I also found this twitter exchange between Ray Lee and Glenn Bryant to be worrisome. It explains a lot of about both of them and where these actions have derived from. It is sick that these are they type of things that some young college students and athletes believe.

https://twitter.com/RayLee15/status/324647397827432449

I'd kick both of those clowns off the team right now for those statements alone!!!!!!!!!!!! People have been booted for much less.

What a couple of a$$holes.

(04-25-2013 12:00 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 10:51 AM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  Aaron, I was typing a response to Steve that mirrored what you wrote... Until my browser crashed and I lost it all. Only thing I don't know about is the point about Ramsey's ability to get preps who are legitimate MAC players outside of Dumes, Medlock, Dobbins, and Bowdry. And three of them were in one class if memory correctly serves me. Ramsey had a ton of transfers. Most did not do well.

And had to 'reach' and take some risks to try to build the program.

It appears he built his program on sand.

(04-25-2013 01:41 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 01:20 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 12:58 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Murphy is done. No way he survives this mess. Will anyone even notice when he's gone?

Hopefully top light aau and hs coaches. Agreed, he's got go be done if this Bryant mess is actually true. Cannot afford anymore legal problems.

I hope no one here is an attorney. If so, they should rip up their law degree.

Do we want to pay off 3 years of future salary?

NO WAY can Murphy get fired FOR CAUSE.

While Murphy can be blamed for the Still incident, whatever Bryant did or whatever happens to him, is BRYANT's problem not Murphys.

Can't fire someone for the prospective activities of someone he recruited.

Also, Still's problems had to be known to the EMU AD and the AD (and probably a lot higher) must have signed off.

Bryant had a blemish on his record at Arkansas (2 game suspension) but it isn't like he committed a felony there.

In the words of Hawk Harrelson, "he gone!"

(04-25-2013 03:16 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 01:41 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 01:20 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 12:58 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Murphy is done. No way he survives this mess. Will anyone even notice when he's gone?

Hopefully top light aau and hs coaches. Agreed, he's got go be done if this Bryant mess is actually true. Cannot afford anymore legal problems.

I hope no one here is an attorney. If so, they should rip up their law degree.

Do we want to pay off 3 years of future salary?

NO WAY can Murphy get fired FOR CAUSE.

While Murphy can be blamed for the Still incident, whatever Bryant did or whatever happens to him, is BRYANT's problem not Murphys.

Can't fire someone for the prospective activities of someone he recruited.

Also, Still's problems had to be known to the EMU AD and the AD (and probably a lot higher) must have signed off.

Bryant had a blemish on his record at Arkansas (2 game suspension) but it isn't like he committed a felony there.

In the words of Hawk Harrelson, "he gone!"

I think Mitt would be willing to bet you 10K on that... :)

I think it is kind of obvious what Coach Murphy has tried to do at EMU. Get transfers, from better schools and conferences, hoping that he wins quick and big enough to get offered a higher coaching position somewhere else. So far the plan is back firing on him. That is usually what happens when you take shortcuts.

(04-25-2013 03:52 PM)realistEagle Wrote:  I think it is kind of obvious what Coach Murphy has tried to do at EMU. Get transfers, from better schools and conferences, hoping that he wins quick and big enough to get offered a higher coaching position somewhere else. So far the plan is back firing on him. That is usually what happens when you take shortcuts.

I blame Gragg for hiring him--not only hiring him, but pushing him to the front of the line at the 11th hour. I didn't think that was fair at the time and as it turns out, it was a really dubious hire.