(03-21-2013 04:58 PM)johnbragg Wrote: Ranking us below the Mountain West is disrespect, in my book.
"The MWC should be the top league outside the new power five.
The new Big East has the potential to rival or exceed the MWC's number of bids on a regular basis. The new Big East could topple it if St. John's and Providence can escape the bottom."
That's not really disprespect at all. The MWC was #1 in conference RPI this season. The new Big East is better, but still hypothetical.
And it's freaking ESPN sucking off their new property. I expected far worse, like outright trashing the new league.
(03-21-2013 12:34 PM)stever20 Wrote: I think the primary arguement for the MWC is that they have played together- there is no question about them playing together- no question about how Butler, Xavier, and Creighton will get integrated.
And- Boise was the top rated team in the Play in games. They didn't have the crap losses that UVA did. UVA had 4 losses to losing teams this year. That just NIT.
The MWC has only 6 of its founding members. They've lost 3 members over the last couple of years, including 2 very strong programs in Utah and BYU. Boise joined last year. Fresno and Nevada this year. USU and SJSU coming in next year. SDSU and BSU were out the door. How is their situation all that different than the C7, which has 5 members that have been together for over 30 years? I think the MWC will be a consistent multibid conference, but they have hardly the beacon of conference stability.
But their top schools- UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego St, and Colorado St have played together from the get go. They aren't going anywhere. Boise got in playing a MWC schedule this year. Boise and SDSU were going to leave but they didn't.
How it's different than the C7 is using the numbers- of the 46 bids the BE has- 18 are from teams that have never played in the Big East. We don't know how they will get integrated.
Like I said Katz should have said the MWC could be the strongest non top 5 conference. That's a pretty defensible statement- and you can make arguements to that effect. What he did say that they should be- is a joke. There is nothing out there that defends that at all..
MWC 1-3 so far in the NCAA's. NBE 2-0.
Assuming Katz is correctly counting the C7/BE as a top 5 conference, though, his statement about the MWC could be correct.
Now looking at Harvard as NBE candidate. Large market, "fairly good" academics, recent NCAA success.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2013 08:26 AM by orangefan.)
lucky is a major component of the NCAA tourney. As the ESPN 30 for 30 with NC State said- Survive and Advance. Every champion has one game in the run that you can say they are lucky...
That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2013 06:09 PM by JPSchmack.)
(03-22-2013 03:49 PM)itsmejpt Wrote: I think Katz tweeted something about "eating his words" about the MWC yesterday. I'm not sure though.
This was the closest thing I could find.
"Andy Katz @ESPNAndyKatz 21h
For someone who has been high on the MWC all season, this stat stings: MWC is 5-29 against power six schools in the NCAA tournament."
(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote: That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.
(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote: That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.
No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.
(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote: That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.
No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.
VCU has made the tourney as many times as GMU has since both final 4 appearances. There's a reason why VCU is getting a stand alone game slot tomorrow afternoon in the tourney. You can hate on VCU as much as you want- but they are building more and more whether you like it or not.
(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote: That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.
No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.
VCU has made the tourney as many times as GMU has since both final 4 appearances. There's a reason why VCU is getting a stand alone game slot tomorrow afternoon in the tourney. You can hate on VCU as much as you want- but they are building more and more whether you like it or not.
Time slots have nothing to do with the team. They are decided well in advance. Making the tourny and making a run are two different things. You said that they have proven that the final four wasn't a fluke. Since they never made it past the first weekend except once doesn't mean you have proven anything.
(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote: That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.
No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.
VCU has made the tourney as many times as GMU has since both final 4 appearances. There's a reason why VCU is getting a stand alone game slot tomorrow afternoon in the tourney. You can hate on VCU as much as you want- but they are building more and more whether you like it or not.
Time slots have nothing to do with the team. They are decided well in advance. Making the tourny and making a run are two different things. You said that they have proven that the final four wasn't a fluke. Since they never made it past the first weekend except once doesn't mean you have proven anything.
The time slots are NOT decided well in advance. Look at the Sunday schedule- EVERYTHING right now is TBA. CBS felt that was the top game so that's why it's a national broadcast.
Going 56-15 since the final 4 is proving that it wasn't a fluke. Esp this year in the A10 a damn good conference.
(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote: That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.
You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.
For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.
St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.
Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).
I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"
If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.
No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.
So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.