(02-02-2013 01:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  The thread seems open to me.

It was closed, i opened it back up.

Thread split coming re: Why not 13

(02-02-2013 10:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 09:35 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  There is a difference between 13 and 16. There are a legit 6 teams currently under consideration. I'm not talking about adding everyone, just the legit 6. Like I said, the odd number helps get a nice 18 game schedule where you know who you have each and every year.

If we assume that Fox is pushing hard for SLU, I'd rather have 13 than not have VCU. I have no objection to Dayton getting in as 13.

Best case for me would no SLU. Worst case would be SLU and no VCU. I have no objection to Dayton as a member, I don't think leaving Dayton out is a big mistake.

REdman has a pretty good schedule idea--you play everyone 3 times in 2 years. No divisions, so MUAvalanche should be happy. VCU is in, so me and Stever20 are happy.

Aughanure, what say you?

Not sure if the C7 would want to dilute their voting power, at 6 adds they would just have 1 more vote and by laws will probably require more than a minimum majority. I'd honestly rather just add SLU, Xavier and Butler and sit at 10 and wait for a bit. Maybe ND starts calling, maybe Gonzaga figures a way to make it work. I don't know, I think jumping to add 6 just because we are scared of leaving everyone out may be a mistake made for the short term.

In my mind I think there's something valuable to having a consistent conference identity. Alumni of Georgetown and SLU are more likely to know each other and associate and relate to each other more, both professionally and personally. This may be very important as there are no real regional rivalries in this conference, so having the schools all match and have similar identities and backgrounds can spur that rivalry. Marquette alumni are probably more likely to know Creighton and Villanova alumni and vice versa - and will see each other as peers. VCU sticks out like a sore thumb, which I why I would probably only like to add them if we're expanding to 14 or 16 and grabbing a Wichita St or UMass to match with them.

(02-02-2013 02:01 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 10:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 09:35 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  There is a difference between 13 and 16. There are a legit 6 teams currently under consideration. I'm not talking about adding everyone, just the legit 6. Like I said, the odd number helps get a nice 18 game schedule where you know who you have each and every year.

If we assume that Fox is pushing hard for SLU, I'd rather have 13 than not have VCU. I have no objection to Dayton getting in as 13.

Best case for me would no SLU. Worst case would be SLU and no VCU. I have no objection to Dayton as a member, I don't think leaving Dayton out is a big mistake.

REdman has a pretty good schedule idea--you play everyone 3 times in 2 years. No divisions, so MUAvalanche should be happy. VCU is in, so me and Stever20 are happy.

Aughanure, what say you?

Not sure if the C7 would want to dilute their voting power, at 6 adds they would just have 1 more vote and by laws will probably require more than a minimum majority. I'd honestly rather just add SLU, Xavier and Butler and sit at 10 and wait for a bit. Maybe ND starts calling, maybe Gonzaga figures a way to make it work. I don't know, I think jumping to add 6 just because we are scared of leaving everyone out may be a mistake made for the short term.

We're not going to 10. Not gonna happen.

(02-02-2013 02:03 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  In my mind I think there's something valuable to having a consistent conference identity. Alumni of Georgetown and SLU are more likely to know each other and associate and relate to each other more, both professionally and personally. This may be very important as there are no real regional rivalries in this conference, so having the schools all match and have similar identities and backgrounds can spur that rivalry. Marquette alumni are probably more likely to know Creighton and Villanova alumni and vice versa - and will see each other as peers. VCU sticks out like a sore thumb, which I why I would probably only like to add them if we're expanding to 14 or 16 and grabbing a Wichita St or UMass to match with them.

THIS is the good version of the argument from cultural fit.

The problem is, to be big-time, we need t-shirt fans as much as alums.

(02-02-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 02:03 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  In my mind I think there's something valuable to having a consistent conference identity. Alumni of Georgetown and SLU are more likely to know each other and associate and relate to each other more, both professionally and personally. This may be very important as there are no real regional rivalries in this conference, so having the schools all match and have similar identities and backgrounds can spur that rivalry. Marquette alumni are probably more likely to know Creighton and Villanova alumni and vice versa - and will see each other as peers. VCU sticks out like a sore thumb, which I why I would probably only like to add them if we're expanding to 14 or 16 and grabbing a Wichita St or UMass to match with them.

THIS is the good version of the argument from cultural fit.

The problem is, to be big-time, we need t-shirt fans as much as alums.

Im more concerned with Smart leaving and exposing all the nasty blemishes of a true CAA program that has played above it's means for a decade and then returns back to it's normal form.

(02-02-2013 02:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 02:03 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  In my mind I think there's something valuable to having a consistent conference identity. Alumni of Georgetown and SLU are more likely to know each other and associate and relate to each other more, both professionally and personally. This may be very important as there are no real regional rivalries in this conference, so having the schools all match and have similar identities and backgrounds can spur that rivalry. Marquette alumni are probably more likely to know Creighton and Villanova alumni and vice versa - and will see each other as peers. VCU sticks out like a sore thumb, which I why I would probably only like to add them if we're expanding to 14 or 16 and grabbing a Wichita St or UMass to match with them.

THIS is the good version of the argument from cultural fit.

The problem is, to be big-time, we need t-shirt fans as much as alums.

Im more concerned with Smart leaving and exposing all the nasty blemishes of a true CAA program that has played above it's means for a decade and then returns back to it's normal form.

So now the last two coaches were also flukes? Man, tough crowd.

in my eyes i see vcu and wichita state as a good pair. Should come as a package if we ever go to 14. They balance each other one eastone midwest. Others im sure dont see it that way at all

MIRRORED TEAMS
wichita/vcu
xavier/georgetown
butler/richmond
depaul/seton hall
marquette/villanova
creighton/st johns
st louis/providence


you can maybe swap the last 2 pairs based on markets

I think a problem in these discussions is that I constantly get Redman and JohnBragg mixed up in my head... Bragg wants VCU and Redman wants SLU?... Bragg thinks DePaul will soon recover or vice versa? Half the time I think the other Johnnie fan is posting... not only that, one of the Hoya fans has morphed into Quo Vadis...

(02-02-2013 02:40 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 02:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 02:03 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  In my mind I think there's something valuable to having a consistent conference identity. Alumni of Georgetown and SLU are more likely to know each other and associate and relate to each other more, both professionally and personally. This may be very important as there are no real regional rivalries in this conference, so having the schools all match and have similar identities and backgrounds can spur that rivalry. Marquette alumni are probably more likely to know Creighton and Villanova alumni and vice versa - and will see each other as peers. VCU sticks out like a sore thumb, which I why I would probably only like to add them if we're expanding to 14 or 16 and grabbing a Wichita St or UMass to match with them.

THIS is the good version of the argument from cultural fit.

The problem is, to be big-time, we need t-shirt fans as much as alums.

Im more concerned with Smart leaving and exposing all the nasty blemishes of a true CAA program that has played above it's means for a decade and then returns back to it's normal form.

So now the last two coaches were also flukes? Man, tough crowd.

Never said flukes, just playing above what they actually are. Do you think their next hire will be a good young coach? There are not a whole lot of those around. Also they wont have the CAA to cut their teeth against but actual tough teams.

(02-02-2013 03:12 PM)billyjack Wrote:  I think a problem in these discussions is that I constantly get Redman and JohnBragg mixed up in my head... Bragg wants VCU and Redman wants SLU?... Bragg thinks DePaul will soon recover or vice versa? Half the time I think the other Johnnie fan is posting... not only that, one of the Hoya fans has morphed into Quo Vadis...

I'm pro SLU and Dayton, I think DePaul is improving. Im also okay with going to 13 to bring in VCU.

(02-02-2013 03:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Never said flukes, just playing above what they actually are. Do you think their next hire will be a good young coach? There are not a whole lot of those around. Also they wont have the CAA to cut their teeth against but actual tough teams.

Naah, they'll just jack someone else's good young coach.

(02-02-2013 03:12 PM)billyjack Wrote:  I think a problem in these discussions is that I constantly get Redman and JohnBragg mixed up in my head... Bragg wants VCU and Redman wants SLU?... Bragg thinks DePaul will soon recover or vice versa? Half the time I think the other Johnnie fan is posting... not only that, one of the Hoya fans has morphed into Quo Vadis...

I'm starting to wonder if he really is a Hoya fan or just another one of Ques alias.

Stever20 has been around a long, long time. He might make me look like Mr Sunshine, but he's no LSU fan.

It's also possible that VCU got a little more media run in the DC area than nationally? Stever20's a Georgetown fan, so I assume he's in the DC area, and I've been in NoVA since 2009. Could that be a factor?

I just think VCU with Smart coaching them- I just don't see a letdown. And, I could see them being a major factor not just conference wide, but really more on a national scale with him able to recruit big time players in a bigger conference. And, his system is so hard to play in a tourney setting(we saw that 2 years ago)- I think they would be kind of similar to what we always thought of Temple with their matchup zone- but on a much bigger scale. And- if that came to fruition, that would help the C7 out more than anything in possible.

(02-02-2013 04:06 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Stever20 has been around a long, long time. He might make me look like Mr Sunshine, but he's no LSU fan.

It's also possible that VCU got a little more media run in the DC area than nationally? Stever20's a Georgetown fan, so I assume he's in the DC area, and I've been in NoVA since 2009. Could that be a factor?

I have worked at Georgetown for almost a year now and I can tell you that GU folks would rather be associated with Richmond than VCU. From a basketball perspective, Hoyas are not impressed with VCU's Final Four run. I don't buy the fact that Shaka Smart is a Ram for life and look at what happened to DePaul, one bad coaching hire can ruin a program.

VCU does not get that much exposure in the D.C. area, heck William and Mary get as much as they do.

The question that I have is why if they go to the C7 conference wouldn't Smart be a Ram for life? I haven't been seeing BE coaches getting poached for other conferences much. Why would he be any different?

(02-02-2013 04:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The question that I have is why if they go to the C7 conference wouldn't Smart be a Ram for life? I haven't been seeing BE coaches getting poached for other conferences much. Why would he be any different?

Tom Crean and John Bielin

(02-02-2013 04:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The question that I have is why if they go to the C7 conference wouldn't Smart be a Ram for life? I haven't been seeing BE coaches getting poached for other conferences much. Why would he be any different?

SEcond. I think a Big East job is one you don't leave unless it's absolute royalty calling. Indiana, Duke, Carolina, UCLA, KAnsas, Kentucky. Or the NBA maybe. Going forward, if the league is succeeding, I don't think you see coaches going from good Big East teams to Michigan or NC STate or Arizona.

If Providence's new coach succeeds, why does he leave? Where does he go? Maybe UConn, they have more history. If Purrell can bring Depaul back, does it make any sense for him to jump to Illinois? If Oregon and Phil Knight call, maybe.

Do you leave a job where you are the biggest star of the athletic program for one where you're a distant No. 2 to the football coach?