(01-10-2013 10:04 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  The coach affects the entire football program and athletic department. If you're only looking at wins and losses, you're missing the big picture. It doesn't tell the story of what he had in terms of a roster coming in, battling with conference uncertainty, etc. His recruiting classes have continued the upward trend that Dantonio and Kelly had established. All three of those guys did an excellent job putting Cincinnati Football on the map nationally.

That's fair. So should we talk about the whole story then or is this not the thread for that? What do you think of the roster he was given? What do you think conf uncertainty did to him compared to what it is going to do to the next coach?

It's my opinion that he took over the best roster in the league, a ton of momentum, an energized fan base, a huge home field advantage, as "easy" a path to the BCS as there is, and an athletic department/university committed to winning in football. The conference wasn't a problem in 2010 when he took over. To me, it was a near certainty he would succeed under those conditions.

That's obviously up for debate, but I'd be happy to discuss the details of then and now. I'm not all that impressed with what he did with what he had or how HE grew things. Some things grew that were already in motion on his watch. I'll give him some credit for maintaining and not stopping momentum. That was important at the time and certainly worth something to a program trying to maintain credibility. I don't think he did much more than that personally.

Simple test in my eyes. Looking back at the Cats '12 season: I for one think the Cats would have been 12-0 with Kelly at the lead. Therefore program is not as good as when he left.

(01-10-2013 08:58 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 05:57 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  This offends you, why, exactly?

It doesn't offend me, I just think it's stupid.

LOL..this place suddenly has standards..

(01-10-2013 08:58 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 05:57 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  This offends you, why, exactly?

It doesn't offend me, I just think it's stupid.

It doesn't offend me either and there's certainly worse things he could be called than his actual first name, but I don't see the need to always bash or feel ill will to anyone who leaves UC no matter the circumstances. I get BK left like an a$$. I don't get any angst with Butch. He left for goddamned Tennessee when we are teetering on conference oblivion. It is a hard job to turn down, and he's a decent guy. I won't be rooting for UT but I recognize the good job he did for us and I also empathize with his family who really really like it here and would've liked to stay here.

(01-10-2013 08:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 08:16 AM)uccheese Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 01:28 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  I could understand if he left UC in a worse place than when he arrived, but he didn't. The past three coaches have done a good job building UC up. I expect TT to do the same.

Am I supposed to start calling Tommy "Hawley" when he leaves or retires? What about Mick, does he go to "Micky"?

You think our team is better now than when Kelly left? ummm... what?

It's not about the team being better. It's about the program being better. Which it undoubtedly is. I don't think we could have gotten a coach like Tuberville 3 years ago. Back then, we had finished the season ranked under exactly one coach in our whole history. Thanks to Jones, instead of being viewed as a program that got lucky in picking a good coach (like Texas Tech), we're viewed as a place that can be consistently successful.

Not a Butch basher, but FWIW Tuberville reportedly expressed interest in the job here after Kelly left.

(01-10-2013 08:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 08:16 AM)uccheese Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 01:28 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  I could understand if he left UC in a worse place than when he arrived, but he didn't. The past three coaches have done a good job building UC up. I expect TT to do the same.

Am I supposed to start calling Tommy "Hawley" when he leaves or retires? What about Mick, does he go to "Micky"?

You think our team is better now than when Kelly left? ummm... what?

It's not about the team being better. It's about the program being better. Which it undoubtedly is. I don't think we could have gotten a coach like Tuberville 3 years ago. Back then, we had finished the season ranked under exactly one coach in our whole history. Thanks to Jones, instead of being viewed as a program that got lucky in picking a good coach (like Texas Tech), we're viewed as a place that can be consistently successful.

I dont think we would have gotten Tommy T without the relationship he already had with Whit.

(01-10-2013 10:19 AM)R03jsniper Wrote:  Coaches leaving never affect the program in a good way...well unless they just arent any good. Kelly recruited his type of players for the type of football he ran. When he left Lyle was left with his players, yet played a different game. So he started recruiting his players. Neither of these guys got to coach a full season with only players they recruited. Now TT is coming into a system with another mans players. So its going to take another 3-4 years for him to be able to put "his" product on the football field. So the past 6 years weve been rebuilding and now we have another 3 more until we can finally get what TT wants. So id say we are definitely not better off. Im not saying we wont win, because we still have good college football players, but to say we are better off now is wrong. These are lyles players that now have to learn a completely different game of football than what they were recruited for

We've been rebuilding for 6 straight years? Did I understand you correctly? Last 6 years: 5 10 win seasons, 5 top 25 finishes, 4 conf CH's and 3 bowl wins. I'll take that any day. Also, our facilities have greatly improved in that stretch - new practice facility w/ indoor bubble, player training table, and new lounge/player facilities. Our facilities are second to none, with the exception of Nippert and they are now taking on that project.

(01-10-2013 11:38 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 10:19 AM)R03jsniper Wrote:  Coaches leaving never affect the program in a good way...well unless they just arent any good. Kelly recruited his type of players for the type of football he ran. When he left Lyle was left with his players, yet played a different game. So he started recruiting his players. Neither of these guys got to coach a full season with only players they recruited. Now TT is coming into a system with another mans players. So its going to take another 3-4 years for him to be able to put "his" product on the football field. So the past 6 years weve been rebuilding and now we have another 3 more until we can finally get what TT wants. So id say we are definitely not better off. Im not saying we wont win, because we still have good college football players, but to say we are better off now is wrong. These are lyles players that now have to learn a completely different game of football than what they were recruited for

We've been rebuilding for 6 straight years? Did I understand you correctly? Last 6 years: 5 10 win seasons, 5 top 25 finishes, 4 conf CH's and 3 bowl wins. I'll take that any day. Also, our facilities have greatly improved in that stretch - new practice facility w/ indoor bubble, player training table, and new lounge/player facilities. Our facilities are second to none, with the exception of Nippert and they are now taking on that project.

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say, or I didnt word it correctly. We have good football players here, im not saying we dont. What I am saying is its never good for a program to switch coaches every 3 years. Thats basically what we have been doing. Yes we are winning, yes are facilities are finally getting better, and yes we are finally being mentioned in the same sentence as other football schools. Im not denying that or saying we arent doing great in that aspect.

Im specifically speaking about the football team itself and the gameplan they were recruited for. Of course we can still win with this talent, they are all good division 1 football players. What I am saying is Kelly when he was here never even got to coach a season full of players he recruited. Imagine how good UC would be if we had 1 full season with all players 1 coach recruited for his style of play. When he left his offensive and defensive strategies left with him and Butch came in and started recruiting a whole different group of guys to run a different offense and defense. Im not saying Kellys recruits werent good, but they were recruited for a different style of play which in turn can hurt a players growth if he has to continue switching the gameplan and what is expected of him. Next year would have been a year full of all the players he recruited, non of kellys guys so we would have actually gotten to see exactly the type of football he planned on bringing to cincinnati.

Now with TT coming in he has inherited butchs players. (and again im not saying anything negative about the caliber of these players, just they were brought in with the intention of playing a different style of football than Kelly recruited and that TT will recruit) Butch and TT recruit for a completely different style of play. So we most likely wont get to see exactly what TT is trying to do with his players for another few years. The players we have are going to have to scratch all the plays from butchs offense and replace it with a completely new one. That can be hard to do for some players. And some players might be great players, but maybe TT wouldnt have recruited them because they didnt fit his style of play. So in the aspect of the product on the field, of course we are rebuilding. And we will be rebuilding until TT has the team and players he recruited

(01-10-2013 01:28 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  I could understand if he left UC in a worse place than when he arrived, but he didn't. The past three coaches have done a good job building UC up. I expect TT to do the same.

Am I supposed to start calling Tommy "Hawley" when he leaves or retires? What about Mick, does he go to "Micky"?

He inherited a team that was 34-7 the three years prior and went 23-14. I would say building UC up is a bit of a stretch, but his last two years he did at least maintain a good level of success.

(01-09-2013 11:25 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Hasty decision. They'll look back on this years from now and will regret not learning how to chest bump.

Tennessee traveling to Oregon for a game next year. Lyle is going to see some real speed early in the season. I hope he has those guys ready for that.

(01-10-2013 02:55 PM)ruffles Wrote:  Tennessee traveling to Oregon for a game next year. Lyle is going to see some real speed early in the season. I hope he has those guys ready for that.

That would be a tall task for anyone. Let alone a team breaking in a new coach and a new QB.

(01-10-2013 03:11 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 02:55 PM)ruffles Wrote:  Tennessee traveling to Oregon for a game next year. Lyle is going to see some real speed early in the season. I hope he has those guys ready for that.

That would be a tall task for anyone. Let alone a team breaking in a new coach and a new QB.

He got UC prepared to go against Tennessee in his first year at UC just fine!!!!

(01-09-2013 11:59 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  What's the point of calling him Lyle instead of Butch?

His momma named him Lyle, in gonna call him Lyle...