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(12-15-2012 12:00 AM)Blaze4Pres Wrote:  I think that school shootings didn't start until people took God and religion out of schools.

...here we go. smh

This isn't just about gun control.

If people want guns, they are going to find a gun one way or the other. Moreover, the people that do these types of things aren't usually the ones with registered firearms.

This has to do with our societal structure, and I believe a lot of blame can be placed on our news programming.

The news programming is constantly churning out negativity. That's all we hear. It's in everything we watch. Everywhere we go. It is ubiquitous.

And we're all just taking it in. Assimilating the negativity. We are all perpetuating the cycle of negativity by becoming more and more cynical ourselves, much of that is because of the news, media in general, and our own word of mouth.

We are all saying how bad this is, how terrible it is, etc. These things have become cliches, so much to the point that many of us don't even have feeling behind our cliched sentiments.

We try to feel, but we feel too little. We are desensitized.

Our culture has to change. The way to do that is to have positivity pervade our minds rather than negativity. However, it's hard to preserve our own minds when everything we hear is the wrong message. The wrong ideas, values, and overall attitude is ubiqituous. Because of the technological world we now live in, everything is everywhere and we're constantly taking it in. It's the ubiqituous assimilation of negativity. Of horror.

If we were to be taking in positive messages, rather than the negative alternative, at every turn and every corner, then things would change.

Instead, the shlt that happened today is going to be talked about everyday for the next month. The incident will be talked about, but not the solution to the larger problem at hand. All we will see happen is the demonization of a couple of individuals rather than place our focus on the larger issue at hand. We always focus on the microcosm and not the macrocosm.

We have to preserve the good in ourselves by blocking out the negativity and maintaining a level of respect for our fellow man. Whether we use message boards, books, journals, or whatever - I don't care. We have to preserve the good in ourselves by creating our own consciousness rather than having it done for us, at least until the culture of American media undergoes an overhaul.

I'm saddened by this event, yes, but I'm most saddened by the fact that we are becoming so detached from everything that is good about anything and anyone.

Let's remember this as a microcosm of a larger problem and being part of the impetus that can finally turn our overall view of ourselves, peers, and world around. The good in the world has to triumph the negativity for this kind of shlt to be minimalized and perhaps become nonexistent, and it all starts within our own minds first.

What people are so strong as to be able banish God from any place He wants to be? Now religion is something else since that is something of Man's formulation.

In regard to gun control, that horse is long gone out of the barn. It is 200 years too late to lock the barn door in 2012. In 1788, the only two types of long guns were the smooth bore musket and the grooved bore rifle. These two long guns were state of the art until almost 1900. (Even the Gatling gun used the same kind of barrels as the single barrel guns.) Just like the writers of the Constitution didn't anticipate the invention of the cotton gin in 1793 (resulting in the Civil war), they didn't anticipate the inventions of Colt, Thompson and Browning in the mid, late 19th century,etc. They were alive at a time when the "well regulated militia" was the principal fighting force of the US government. Even as late as the Civil war, the main army units called to fight on both sides were state militias. The tie in of arms and militia in the 2nd Amendment is only disregarded by those who have another agenda.

The 2nd amendment is totally irrelevant to gun ownership today. Too many Americans believe a gun is the Great Equalizer in self protection and is one reason those who feel powerless in our society are the ones who gather the largest store of guns and tend to use them when they feel provoked / threatened by others ("The Man") or just want to "get even". The best that we can hope for is that gun owners will concede that proper background checks for gun purchases in ALL venues and proper training and testing be a requirement just as we demand for automobiles. .

(12-14-2012 06:56 PM)RBB Wrote:  Illegal drugs killed 38,000 people last year, more than guns nd DUI related fatlities combined. Think about that since they are illegal.

Let's make them legal and see what happens!

(12-14-2012 08:16 PM)Blazer Engineer Wrote:  This was a terriable awful crime, and I find it horrifying. BUT you cant keep crazy people from doing crazy things. this nut picked a firearm as his weapon of choice. Would you feel the same if he had hacked the room to death with a machette or ran them over with a car? would you want to ban cars and knives?

Try to kill 27 people with a knife. Try to get a car inside a school.

I'll say this and bow out from this thread: I know many people who own guns. Not one of those people knows what hell they're doing, and it makes me feel less safe. A classmate of mine was shot and killed by her own uncle, because he thought she was an intruder. It was late at night, and dark. She was across the room.

People that seriously think they're going to save someone's life or protect their families with a gun are full of themselves. You will shoot some random bystander, or yourself, because the real world is not the same as target practice, or hunting. Sometimes it's dark and rainy. Sometimes it's really loud and chaotic, and you don't have time to think. Sometimes there are hundreds of people around. Sometimes the bullet will ricochet and strike a small child. Sometimes the gun will get a round stuck in the barrel and blow your own hand off. Sometimes it's hard to tell who the bad guy is. What if that guy you see shooting a gun is just another good samaritan trying to take out the real bad guy?

People are idiots, and idiots should not have guns. But if we train people and have them take a class to be sure they're excellent marksmen before we let them have guns, then we've just created a very talented idiot. I will never own a gun. Have fun out there, guys.

(12-14-2012 10:17 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Just watch. The gun nuts will be complaining about the "liberal" media for making this a big story. "How dare they show the children's funeral. It's only to turn people against guns." "Why do they have to keep this story in the new? It's an old story." "Why are the remembering the anniversary of those kids deaths. Just to push their gun control agenda"

F the NRA and the weak politicians in their pocket or afraid to stand up to them. and F my fellow conservatives that are so afraid that their rights are being violated that they don't do anything about dangerous weapons being legal.

Classy MB. Very Classy.
As a UAB alumni, I know you have a broader vocabulary than that.

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  And for those who are going to try to stir up SHlT by going off on gun control...maybe later is a time to discuss, but not now.

It seems like this is an issue that MB wanted to discuss and he got his wish by making this statement he knew he would stir the pot.
I find this disturbing as well and I am dissapointed. This thread should be a out mourning the tragedy. Not for political agenda. I will be happy to discuss my feelings on these political discussions but this is not the time or place. My heart is saddened by this tragedy and my wife was in tears yesterday. When I consoled her there was not political discussions I assure you.

"Free will, after the fall, has power to do good only in a passive capacity, but it can always do evil in an active capacity." -Martin Luther

I have no doubt you people will eventually ban every sharp object and corner, but at that point your society without God will still be filled with rot.

(12-15-2012 08:39 AM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  And for those who are going to try to stir up SHlT by going off on gun control...maybe later is a time to discuss, but not now.

It seems like this is an issue that MB wanted to discuss and he got his wish by making this statement he knew he would stir the pot.
I find this disturbing as well and I am dissapointed. This thread should be a out mourning the tragedy. Not for political agenda. I will be happy to discuss my feelings on these political discussions but this is not the time or place. My heart is saddened by this tragedy and my wife was in tears yesterday. When I consoled her there was not political discussions I assure you.

Completely agree, although I think he was responding to Bamablazerfan's post since he initiated the gun control theme on what began as a somber post about the deaths of innocent children.

(12-15-2012 08:52 AM)RBB Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 08:39 AM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  And for those who are going to try to stir up SHlT by going off on gun control...maybe later is a time to discuss, but not now.

It seems like this is an issue that MB wanted to discuss and he got his wish by making this statement he knew he would stir the pot.
I find this disturbing as well and I am dissapointed. This thread should be a out mourning the tragedy. Not for political agenda. I will be happy to discuss my feelings on these political discussions but this is not the time or place. My heart is saddened by this tragedy and my wife was in tears yesterday. When I consoled her there was not political discussions I assure you.

Completely agree, although I think he was responding to Bamablazerfan's post since he initiated the gun control theme on what began as a somber post about the deaths of innocent children.

Exactly.

(12-15-2012 07:28 AM)dragonbreath Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 10:17 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Just watch. The gun nuts will be complaining about the "liberal" media for making this a big story. "How dare they show the children's funeral. It's only to turn people against guns." "Why do they have to keep this story in the new? It's an old story." "Why are the remembering the anniversary of those kids deaths. Just to push their gun control agenda"

F the NRA and the weak politicians in their pocket or afraid to stand up to them. and F my fellow conservatives that are so afraid that their rights are being violated that they don't do anything about dangerous weapons being legal.

Classy MB. Very Classy.
As a UAB alumni, I know you have a broader vocabulary than that.

Maybe it would have been classier if I just spelled it out and let the filter handle it like so many other hypocrites do here

This is exactly the time to discuss it. Actually, we're about 10-15 years past the time to discuss what to do about it.

(12-14-2012 05:00 PM)Uncle BLAZER Wrote:  BTW, 22 kids were stabbed at school in China today. Let's pray for them as well.

It also shows that PEOPLE are responsible for these heinous acts, Not TOOLS. Outlaw whatever you like. It won't fix what's wrong with these sick ******* bastards.

He didn't kill them, though, did he? I think that's the point.

(12-14-2012 06:56 PM)RBB Wrote:  As a card carrying member of the NRA and a gun lover and hunter, why does these senseless killings always turn to gun control? Our prayers go out to the families. I could not even imagine the pain.

The kid went into the school to kill his mom, and ended up killing kids and teachers alike. For every incident like this, consider the numerous instances where someone's life was in danger and a firearm saved them. Our founders wanted all Americans to have the right to bear arms in order to prevent tyranny. Imagine if someone invaded the most well armed country in the world.

My right to bear arms should not be restricted because of the actions of others. If you don't like guns, then don't them. There are 310,000,000 non-military firearms in the US. There are 315,000,000 Americans. There were 11,500 homicides involving firearms. Without firearms being held by law abiding citizens, I would argue that this number would be a lot higher because only criminals would have guns.

There were over 14,000 drinking and driving fatalities last year. By all means, lets ban all alcohol since people continue to break the law.

Illegal drugs killed 38,000 people last year, more than guns nd DUI related fatlities combined. Think about that since they are illegal.

Exactly what tyranny are you going to rise up against? Do you really expect to fight back against the government? Do you have patriot missiles? Do you have M1A1 tanks? And what invasion are you talking about? If anyone invaded this country, it would be the Army that would fight back. Anyone with the balls to invade would outgun the membership of the NRA by many times over

(12-14-2012 07:30 PM)BlazerJoe Wrote:  I'm driving through Wilcox County this afternoon, and my wife called me in hysterics about this. I missed my turn heading to Linden trying to calm her down. It's a sad situation all around, and - whereas the shooter is dead - I don't think he got what he deserved. He deserves worse.

I don't have kids, so I can't presume to know how it might feel, but I hope that this isn't the reaction that the country as a whole has. Everyone feels like a victim. Some people (and I'm not saying your wife, but more along the Nancy Grace types) *want* to feel like the victim so they can "do something". An overly emotional and irrational response is how we end up with things like the TSA and taking our shoes off and not actually increasing our security.

(12-14-2012 08:11 PM)RBB Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 08:02 PM)KevMo4UAB Wrote:  More of the same. Satan may bless the NRA, but I don't believe God does.

Interesting point. I wonder if we had prayers in school - incidents like this would not have happened. You never hear headlines like regular church attendee, Joe Christian just killed 20 kids.

I will leave you one of my favorite quotes: Evil prevails when good men do nothing!

Actually there have been plenty of church shootings in the past 10 years. More secular nations don't have mass shootings (see Japan, Sweden) so I would hope that we don't go down this road. I'm not saying anything *bad* about religion or that it causes this stuff, but forcing religion on people is not the answer.

Sounds like you have all the answers, as usual.
Let us know what we need to do and how we should feel about it.

Seriously, this is more complicated than guns are bad. That's all I'm saying. No the Chinese kids werent killed but lets say someone wanted to drive their car into a group of kids waiting for the bus? Would the immediate response be to outlaw cars?

Did I say we should outlaw all guns? I own guns, so why don't we have an intelligent debate instead of jumping to conclusions and writing off everyone who doesn't agree with us 100%?

(12-15-2012 12:00 AM)Blaze4Pres Wrote:  I suppose nobody read the part that stated he had the AR-15 in a car nearby and was found dead with two pistols laying beside him. This is a quote from CNN: "The bloodshed ended when Lanza's own life did. He was found dead in a classroom with two firearms, a Glock and Sig Sauer. Another gun, a .223 Bushmaster, was found nearby in a car."

According to the state's chief coroner, all 20 children were shot, each multiple times, with the assault rifle:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregi...n-all.html

Quote:First responders described a scene of carnage in the two classrooms where the children were killed, with no movement and no one left to save, everything perfectly still.

All were first-graders. There are presents wrapped and under the tree that will never be opened now. Out of respect for Attalla's wishes, I'll refrain from further commentary re: massacre apologists.

"Wait awhile after a shooting to discuss gun issues". When will that be? it's getting harder and harder to find a "quiet time" for such discussions. Today we have the shooting at St Vincent's hospital in B'ham and one in Las Vegas. How long before the next one?

Let's set aside the Second Amendment debate, set aside "gun control". Let's talk about "gun safety" instead. No responsible gun owner has a problem with gun safety.

What can we do to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and unstable? What can be done to close the loophole for gun shows, where as much as 40% of the guns change hands without any background check? Surely even the NRA can get behind such steps. If they don't, they risk being painted as stone crazy in the aftermath of incidents like this one.

Yeah, I know criminals steal guns or buy them out of a car trunk... but not all of them. What steps can we agree are reasonable, and take? Any constructive steps we take will be progress from waiting for the next massacre.

(12-15-2012 07:13 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Let's set aside the Second Amendment debate, set aside "gun control". Let's talk about "gun safety" instead. No responsible gun owner has a problem with gun safety.

What can we do to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and unstable? What can be done to close the loophole for gun shows, where as much as 40% of the guns change hands without any background check? Surely even the NRA can get behind such steps. If they don't, they risk being painted as stone crazy in the aftermath of incidents like this one.

Yeah, I know criminals steal guns or buy them out of a car trunk... but not all of them. What steps can we agree are reasonable, and take?

I think closing the gun show loophole is a good first step. Another is trying to see patterns in people buying thousands of rounds of ammunition.

http://qz.com/37015/how-school-killings-...-together/