(11-02-2012 01:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-02-2012 12:07 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  But, on the flipside, what good is it to move in to the nice neighborhood (ESPN), only to have your house torched (the perpetual onslaught of insults).

Yes, I understand that position.

However, regardless of what ESPN states, you have to take ownership of what you can control. If you're just average Joe Blow Sports Fan living in Average Town, USA, how has Big East football honestly been that interesting over the past few seasons? Why would ESPN or any other network be pumping that up? If the Big East were churning out quality teams on the level of the SEC and Big 12 over the past few years and ESPN was still dogging them, then that's one thing. However, the impression of Joe Blow Sports Fan has been the outcomes of the BCS bowl games, where the one school (WVU) that has carried the weight of the league since 2006 is now gone.

The general argument that we've seen is that "If you crunch the numbers, the Big East has technically been better than the ACC" and then expecting equal treatment. That simply won't happen. If you're a conference that wants to be in the national conversation, then you either (1) need to have top ranked teams or (2) if you don't have top ranked teams, then you need to have marquee teams. Whether it's fair or not, the ACC and Big Ten can rely upon names like Florida State, Ohio State and Michigan to serve as buoys in the years that they are weaker. The Big East doesn't have that luxury and likely won't ever have that luxury - the recognition of the Big East is going to be purely based on performance, and that performance has generally been mid-tier over the past few years. The best that the Big East can say is that it's been on par with the ACC in a downcycle, which won't be good enough.

Maybe Louisville and Boise State can become consistently highly-ranked teams over the next few years and turn the perception of the league around, but the point is that they are not going to get the benefit of the doubt like, say, Miami or Virginia Tech would. That's simply the lay of the land and people need to make the best of that situation.

I've been through this argument many times before regarding ESPN bias and I know that many people disagree, so I'll agree to disagree there. The only thing that I will say is that it's naive to believe that ESPN is simply dictating the national conversation around the Big East as if the viewers were zombies. You have to give the public a bit more credit than that. The fact of the matter is that outside of the Big East bubble, the sports viewing public generally didn't have a high opinion of Big East football in the first place and when they saw poor or mediocre performances in high profile games as a whole, that has reinforced and hardened that opinion. ESPN didn't need to convince those people about thinking a certain way about the Big East. Instead, to the extent that there is "bias", ESPN is more like Fox News or MSNBC (depending upon your political persuasion) who is parroting back what many of its non-Big East viewers already agree with.

(A better example of this was all of the talk on ESPN about how LeBron couldn't win a championship because of "lack of heart", "lack of grit" and other fuzzy intangibles over the past couple of years prior to the Heat winning a championship. Even pre-championship, there was not a single basketball analyst in his right mind that would swap LeBron for any other player on any other team for any price, yet ESPN pushed that storyline because they knew that's what a large segment of the American public *wanted* to hear argued as a result of Lebron haterade (and to be clear, I harbor a lot of that haterade as a Bulls fan). If ESPN is guilty of anything, it's not really *bias*. Instead, they are most guilty of constantly looking for a strong reaction from its viewers, whether it's positive or negative. Hence, we have the existence of a show with Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith that makes me want to blow my brains out.)

Regardless, Big East schools like Louisville need to be winning consistently to turn the American sports public back around - it's not just about who says what on a studio show.

Very, very long post lol

(11-02-2012 09:58 AM)Bearcat_Bounce Wrote:  I really like this idea over NBC getting any portion of the contract.

Ya i really don't get all the love from some bigeast fans with NBC? NBC sucks and I don't give 2 Sh$ts about EPL and NBCSN sucks also!!..

I always believe that people will watch teams in their conference over other schools. I have not watched one SEC game this season because I don't care about those schools. I will watch Big East games and some of the larger regional schools like Ohio State or Notre Dame if they are on tv.

What I hope happens is that we create divisions so that regional rivals are together. I hope Memphis fans will watch Cincinnati and Louisville to see how they do each week and so on.

Same thing for college basketball. I will watch a Xavier or Ohio State game to root against them but I mostly stick with Big East games. I might actually check more schools in basketball because games are only 2 hours. It is easier for this fan to watch a good basketball game because the exciting part (the second half) is closer to the start time.

(11-02-2012 09:50 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I always believe that people will watch teams in their conference over other schools. I have not watched one SEC game this season because I don't care about those schools. I will watch Big East games and some of the larger regional schools like Ohio State or Notre Dame if they are on tv.

What I hope happens is that we create divisions so that regional rivals are together. I hope Memphis fans will watch Cincinnati and Louisville to see how they do each week and so on.

Same thing for college basketball. I will watch a Xavier or Ohio State game to root against them but I mostly stick with Big East games. I might actually check more schools in basketball because games are only 2 hours. It is easier for this fan to watch a good basketball game because the exciting part (the second half) is closer to the start time.

I'm exactly the same way about both sports...I watch the box scores to see which ranked teams & teams I generally hate got beat but Bowl games are probably the only time I give a damn about watching other conference cfb games.

(11-02-2012 10:54 PM)TheRock Wrote:  

(11-02-2012 09:50 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I always believe that people will watch teams in their conference over other schools. I have not watched one SEC game this season because I don't care about those schools. I will watch Big East games and some of the larger regional schools like Ohio State or Notre Dame if they are on tv.

What I hope happens is that we create divisions so that regional rivals are together. I hope Memphis fans will watch Cincinnati and Louisville to see how they do each week and so on.

Same thing for college basketball. I will watch a Xavier or Ohio State game to root against them but I mostly stick with Big East games. I might actually check more schools in basketball because games are only 2 hours. It is easier for this fan to watch a good basketball game because the exciting part (the second half) is closer to the start time.

I'm exactly the same way about both sports...I watch the box scores to see which ranked teams & teams I generally hate got beat but Bowl games are probably the only time I give a damn about watching other conference cfb games.

This behavior is why I think the seventh BCS bowl game may end up being huge for Big East TV ratings. Since the Big East is most likely to have the team that will qualify for the 7th Bowl--fans from CUSA/MW/MAC/SB will be watching games involving the top Big East teams. lol---Of course the fans from other non-AQ conferences will be rooting for us to lose---but at least they WILL BE watching.

(11-02-2012 11:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-02-2012 10:54 PM)TheRock Wrote:  

(11-02-2012 09:50 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I always believe that people will watch teams in their conference over other schools. I have not watched one SEC game this season because I don't care about those schools. I will watch Big East games and some of the larger regional schools like Ohio State or Notre Dame if they are on tv.

What I hope happens is that we create divisions so that regional rivals are together. I hope Memphis fans will watch Cincinnati and Louisville to see how they do each week and so on.

Same thing for college basketball. I will watch a Xavier or Ohio State game to root against them but I mostly stick with Big East games. I might actually check more schools in basketball because games are only 2 hours. It is easier for this fan to watch a good basketball game because the exciting part (the second half) is closer to the start time.

I'm exactly the same way about both sports...I watch the box scores to see which ranked teams & teams I generally hate got beat but Bowl games are probably the only time I give a damn about watching other conference cfb games.

This behavior is why I think the seventh BCS bowl game may end up being huge for Big East TV ratings. Since the Big East is most likely to have the teams that will qualify for the 7th Bowl--fans from CUSA/MW/MAC/SB will be watching games involving the top Big East teams. They will be rooting for us to lose---but at least they will be watching.

I agree & I made a similar point when the 7th game idea was initially being floated. But my rationale for the potential unexpected success of the 7th game differed. I believe fans from CUSA/MW/MAC/SB will be watching but rooting for the BE when their teams are not in it b/c if the other major conference winner dominates that match-up it could diminish the overall value of the winning the bowl. Making it a perceived diminished accomplishment when their teams do play in it (hopefully never!).

Basically I believe the bowl needs to be viewed as a competitive match up every year and that's accomplished by the teams from the BE/CUSA/MW/MAC/SB representing well every year no matter which conference (nBE) plays in it.

(11-02-2012 06:22 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Turner has a pretty full TV schedule weeknights during fall, do they not? So, I'm thinking during FB season, we would be looking at Saturdays on that network.

Fox Sports seems like a solid destination for both sports.

If ESPN is in there somewhere, fine by me, as long as they stop acting up.

Everyone does. TNT is out as far as m-w,as they have awesome shows that do serious, gangbusters numbers. But Fridays could be good, especially with Thursday nba ball to use to promote it. They already have the studio people in town anyway... Now tbs does well with Big Bang theory and family guy reruns during the week, but subbing out one day for live sports is a nice trade for a few months. Also keeps hem from burning through reruns. That's for marquee games. You still have tru tv, fox sports 1, nba TV, and even CBS sports for the lower tiers. Fox does not place enough emphasis on basketball to want them to have your tier one. Plus there is so much basketball you have to have someone else involved.

Bottom line is BE needs a multiple deal with multiple partners. I really don't care who those partners are as long as we rake in 12 mil or more all sports. My personal preference would be NBC/Espn. Tier one football includes a Saturday over the air game and a Sat NBC sports game plus a week day or 2, with ESPN filling holes where they wish. We will not get a prime time weekend gig at ESPN.

One carrier makes no sense right now.

(11-02-2012 09:50 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I always believe that people will watch teams in their conference over other schools. I have not watched one SEC game this season because I don't care about those schools. I will watch Big East games and some of the larger regional schools like Ohio State or Notre Dame if they are on tv.

What I hope happens is that we create divisions so that regional rivals are together. I hope Memphis fans will watch Cincinnati and Louisville to see how they do each week and so on.

No doubt, going into this season as a future member of BE I have followed every big east team and pulled for them in every non conference game and this includes Boise. One thing I have learned doing this is the difference between NbE and cusa is much greater than I originally thought.

Same thing for college basketball. I will watch a Xavier or Ohio State game to root against them but I mostly stick with Big East games. I might actually check more schools in basketball because games are only 2 hours. It is easier for this fan to watch a good basketball game because the exciting part (the second half) is closer to the start time.

(11-03-2012 07:26 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Bottom line is BE needs a multiple deal with multiple partners. I really don't care who those partners are as long as we rake in 12 mil or more all sports. My personal preference would be NBC/Espn. Tier one football includes a Saturday over the air game and a Sat NBC sports game plus a week day or 2, with ESPN filling holes where they wish. We will not get a prime time weekend gig at ESPN.

One carrier makes no sense right now.

In order to seriously raise the conferences profile we need at least one game a week to be carried on a major over the air network like NBC, Fox, or CBS. All 3 potentially have room. After that, a combination of ESPN, Fox, NBC, or others would be fine. The larger reach the better. Truthfully, an NBC, ESPN, Fox split would be the best of all worlds.

(11-03-2012 12:00 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-02-2012 06:22 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Turner has a pretty full TV schedule weeknights during fall, do they not? So, I'm thinking during FB season, we would be looking at Saturdays on that network.

Fox Sports seems like a solid destination for both sports.

If ESPN is in there somewhere, fine by me, as long as they stop acting up.

Everyone does. TNT is out as far as m-w,as they have awesome shows that do serious, gangbusters numbers. But Fridays could be good, especially with Thursday nba ball to use to promote it. They already have the studio people in town anyway... Now tbs does well with Big Bang theory and family guy reruns during the week, but subbing out one day for live sports is a nice trade for a few months. Also keeps hem from burning through reruns. That's for marquee games. You still have tru tv, fox sports 1, nba TV, and even CBS sports for the lower tiers. Fox does not place enough emphasis on basketball to want them to have your tier one. Plus there is so much basketball you have to have someone else involved.

My guess is that Turner's M.O. for getting Big East rights is likely more about truTV, which they have said publicly that they want to build up with more sports (and why they've been purposely putting more NCAA Tournament games and starting NASCAR simulcasts on that network). Even the best Big East regular season football and basketball ratings over the past few years don't compare favorably to what TNT and TBS get for their slate of movies and comedy reruns. Those same ratings on truTV, on the other hand, would expand that network's audience.

Of course, if that theory holds up, then Turner isn't as attractive to the Big East since truTV has a more downscale audience (albeit they are actually still in more households than NBCSN, as it used to be Court TV). To me, the non-ESPN cable alternatives rank this way:

TNT/TBS > FX/Fox Sports 1 > NBCSN > truTV > CBSSN

(11-03-2012 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To me, the non-ESPN cable alternatives rank this way:

TNT/TBS > FX/Fox Sports 1 > NBCSN > truTV > CBSSN

Where would you rank NBA TV and NFL Network?

Frank, my impression of using Court TV for the tournament is, that it handles the overflow NCAA games. After the first round, there is nothing on Court TV.

If Court TV is what Turner has in mind for the BE, then I guess you are correct. But, I doubt that is the case.

(11-03-2012 07:26 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Bottom line is BE needs a multiple deal with multiple partners. I really don't care who those partners are as long as we rake in 12 mil or more all sports. My personal preference would be NBC/Espn. Tier one football includes a Saturday over the air game and a Sat NBC sports game plus a week day or 2, with ESPN filling holes where they wish. We will not get a prime time weekend gig at ESPN.

One carrier makes no sense right now.

Here is the best demonstration as to why we need multiple networks. The football TV schedule, per my paper, looks like this:

SEC - 6 games
Big XII - 5 games
Big Ten - 5 games
Pac 12 - 3 games (and there was one last night I think)
FCS schools - 3 games
C-USA - 2 games
Service academies - 2 games
ACC - 1 game
Big East - 1 game

I don't think I need to tell you what the last two have in common, besides the fact that they are both not playing football up to the level they should be.

(11-03-2012 10:29 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(11-03-2012 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To me, the non-ESPN cable alternatives rank this way:

TNT/TBS > FX/Fox Sports 1 > NBCSN > truTV > CBSSN

Where would you rank NBA TV and NFL Network?

NFL Network is front of truTV simply because there's no greater promotional vehicle for casual sports fans than NFL games. I think NBAtv and truTV are about the equivalent of each other. truTV has substantially higher carriage, but NBAtv has more of the target demo that you'd want.

Turner is such a big question mark - they are on every pay tv subscribers channel list, but who would seek them out? Their NBA coverage is by far the best, but on the other hand, their MLB coverage is perhaps the worst major sports coverage I've ever seen. At this point, who cares, just sign with someone and let me know.

(11-03-2012 11:13 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-03-2012 10:29 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(11-03-2012 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To me, the non-ESPN cable alternatives rank this way:

TNT/TBS > FX/Fox Sports 1 > NBCSN > truTV > CBSSN

Where would you rank NBA TV and NFL Network?

NFL Network is front of truTV simply because there's no greater promotional vehicle for casual sports fans than NFL games. I think NBAtv and truTV are about the equivalent of each other. truTV has substantially higher carriage, but NBAtv has more of the target demo that you'd want.

AFAIK, Aresco hasn't mentioned NBA TV, but he definitely mentioned NFL Network. I agree that would be a great idea for exposure/promotion, for some of our FB games.

(11-03-2012 11:35 AM)monty Wrote:  Turner is such a big question mark - they are on every pay tv subscribers channel list, but who would seek them out? Their NBA coverage is by far the best, but on the other hand, their MLB coverage is perhaps the worst major sports coverage I've ever seen. At this point, who cares, just sign with someone and let me know.

Yeah, I think we're all getting TV deal fatigue, lol.

But as far as Turner goes, we're not selling any baseball, and we are selling basketball, so Turner becomes a good vehicle for a lot of BB games.

ernie johnson being a bore with charles and kenny trying to figure out where this school is and who is any good on the roster. Maybe adding something like the big east would be enough of an impetus to not have ernie johnson and/or barkley on everything - i'm surprised Sir Charles didn't do the alcs play by play.

(11-03-2012 01:36 PM)monty Wrote:  ernie johnson being a bore with charles and kenny trying to figure out where this school is and who is any good on the roster. Maybe adding something like the big east would be enough of an impetus to not have ernie johnson and/or barkley on everything - i'm surprised Sir Charles didn't do the alcs play by play.

You don't think they're any good on NBA coverage? After all, basketball is their thing. They did the NCAA F4 studio coverage pretty well last year, too.

I think you're in the minority on that opinion.