And I'm just saying things don't happen overnight. You can't judge a coach by one year of recruiting, in any sport. Nothing can go right for a year or two, no matter WHAT you try and who you know; then, you manage to get one or two players who look average on paper and you think you're going to have a repeat of the previous year, and suddenly you're back in the top 30.

Big recruits change their minds at the last minute after giving you the impression for months that they're coming to your school -- usually because a bigger, higher ranked school has swooped in with a suddenly available scholarship -- so yes, sometimes coaches are left to scramble. This happens to many, many teams, so I'm willing to see what can be built at Rice over more than just a year. Until any team has a tradition of solid success year after year, "scrambling" is always potentially part of the equation.

To a point I agree that the first year of recruiting is not the end all. Not only did he have no recruits until the summer, he was not able to recruit a full roaster and was not able to recruit a legit #1, which would have made a huge difference in results for his first season. Sure, scrambling may be part of the process, but not to this extent. He probably will be given more leeway as a former Rice player, but it’s already May and he has no players recruited that can add to the top of the line-up. A dynamic coach can make a difference in a year.

Its really not that complicated. The recruit gets a first class education plus a scholarship combined now with a first class stadium. What is not to like? The reputation of the program. The coaching is weak and the strength of match schedule is mediocre at best. Recruits having spent hours and hours developing their game as juniors don't want to have their dreams crushed upon arrival at Rice.

?

With Men's looks like we can expect much of the same. Heard looking at an 11th hr transfer from Mississippi State for line one who was losing at line 6.

(05-11-2013 02:57 PM)owlowlowl Wrote:  Big recruits change their minds at the last minute after giving you the impression for months that they're coming to your school -- usually because a bigger, higher ranked school has swooped in with a suddenly available scholarship -- so yes, sometimes coaches are left to scramble. This happens to many, many teams, so I'm willing to see what can be built at Rice over more than just a year. Until any team has a tradition of solid success year after year, "scrambling" is always potentially part of the equation.

This is actually part of the problem of having a scholarship team that places like Harvard et al don't.

While there are plenty of reasons to prefer our way to theirs, they can literally offer ten people full academic scholarships and then be happy with the 5 that they really wanted, or take all ten if they show. With 5 athletic scholarships, you can't EVER have all ten accept and come.... so maybe you offer 7, and then only 3 or 4 sign and now you're scrambling. It's a BIT like the old days in football when scholarships were unlimited.

I'm being overly simplistic, but the bottom line is that there are SOME sports where there are advantages to not having ATHLETIC scholarships. We all know that Harvard has NUMEROUS scholarship athletes.

(08-09-2013 01:02 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 02:57 PM)owlowlowl Wrote:  Big recruits change their minds at the last minute after giving you the impression for months that they're coming to your school -- usually because a bigger, higher ranked school has swooped in with a suddenly available scholarship -- so yes, sometimes coaches are left to scramble. This happens to many, many teams, so I'm willing to see what can be built at Rice over more than just a year. Until any team has a tradition of solid success year after year, "scrambling" is always potentially part of the equation.

This is actually part of the problem of having a scholarship team that places like Harvard et al don't.

While there are plenty of reasons to prefer our way to theirs, they can literally offer ten people full academic scholarships and then be happy with the 5 that they really wanted, or take all ten if they show. With 5 athletic scholarships, you can't EVER have all ten accept and come.... so maybe you offer 7, and then only 3 or 4 sign and now you're scrambling. It's a BIT like the old days in football when scholarships were unlimited.

I'm being overly simplistic, but the bottom line is that there are SOME sports where there are advantages to not having ATHLETIC scholarships. We all know that Harvard has NUMEROUS scholarship athletes.

OK, lets take the Ivies out of the equation as the Conference doesn't give athletic scholarships.
Still, other top academic D1 programs like UVA, Vanderbilt, Duke, Stanford, UCLA, USC have no trouble signing blue chip recruits year after year for men's tennis. That attraction comes down to the reputation of the program, or even the coach's ability to sell the program. Rice mens tennis ending the 2012-13 season unranked, and having a relatively weak schedule will not help recruit top players. If the team has another average season top recruits will continue to look elsewhere.

I don't know Smarr's reasons for retiring when he did, but the thin returning talent was something he likely considered. It's re-building time. Efe is a young coach.

Smarr left because he had some disappointment in the leadership in the department. He got tired of fighting the same battles every year, many of which had an impact on recruiting. When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at Duke or Princeton, you sort of become disappointed. Efe and Elizabeth are facing similar problems. Recruits who want to come to Rice and who could have an impact aren't likely to wait weeks and weeks for academic decisions when they have numerous alternatives at other top programs.

My only point was that when scholarship numbers are low, the art/skill of putting together a class that sticks is vital. Harvard can recruit as many people as they like and sign as many as they want... We have to be more careful. Lots of coaches are good at it. Some are better than others. It wasn't a comment about anyone in particular, merely something that occurred to me when reading the post talking about having to scramble to sign players late.

(08-09-2013 09:07 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Smarr left because he had some disappointment in the leadership in the department. He got tired of fighting the same battles every year, many of which had an impact on recruiting. When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at Duke or Princeton, you sort of become disappointed. Efe and Elizabeth are facing similar problems. Recruits who want to come to Rice and who could have an impact aren't likely to wait weeks and weeks for academic decisions when they have numerous alternatives at other top programs.

1) Smarr left because he was well beyond retirement age and that is a nice way of putting it; 2) "When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at...Princeton" - you must be joking; 3) Recruits would come to Rice if Rice had a decent tennis program. Rice does not and that is a reflection of the coach (can't blame it on the stadium any longer) so why would a recruit choose Rice?

(08-09-2013 07:31 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  I don't know Smarr's reasons for retiring when he did, but the thin returning talent was something he likely considered. It's re-building time. Efe is a young coach.

Ron's protege, Efe, has been assistant coach long enough to make a significant impact. In fact, he was basically acting coach the last few years Ron was head coach. The thin returning talent is/was a reflection of both Efe's and Ron's recruiting efforts. I would very much like to see Rice Men's Tennis return to it's former glory. The question is does Efe have the work ethic and smarts necessary to make this happen? We are no longer in the first inning. Rice's Men's Tennis had perhaps the worst season in the history of the school last year and that is a shame. Rice University deserves much better.

(08-10-2013 11:09 PM)mens sana Wrote:  "When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at...Princeton" - you must be joking

Nope. And not a one-off occurrence, at least not if you consider all academic peer schools.

(08-09-2013 07:31 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  I don't know Smarr's reasons for retiring when he did, but the thin returning talent was something he likely considered. It's re-building time. Efe is a young coach.

The thin recruiting talent had absolutely nothing to do with why Smarr retired. Smarr was too old to be effective and it had been that way for several years prior to his retirement. That was not a secret. I agree that is rebuilding time but Efe as the heir apparent had time to develop a strategy, and his first year, even for a young coach, was poor. As some point Efe has to deliver some results and a new stadium, while a nice recruiting tool, wont separate Rice from all the top teams from good schools because Duke, UVA, Stanford, Harvard, Princeton etc. all have very nice facilities.

Not to get into this discussion, but I've heard confirmation that the construction of the new tennis facility starts on Tuesday. Too late for completion and use this academic year which is disappointing in itself but the delay prevents this year's seniors from competing in the new tennis center and prevents the Women's team from possibly hosting an NCAA Regional at the facility.

Also, Rice will be hosting a USTA satellite event (Futures of Houston) in early October that will benefit Rice tennis and Triumph over Kid Cancer Foundation...looking forward to watching some great competition.

(08-10-2013 11:09 PM)mens sana Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 09:07 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Smarr left because he had some disappointment in the leadership in the department. He got tired of fighting the same battles every year, many of which had an impact on recruiting. When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at Duke or Princeton, you sort of become disappointed. Efe and Elizabeth are facing similar problems. Recruits who want to come to Rice and who could have an impact aren't likely to wait weeks and weeks for academic decisions when they have numerous alternatives at other top programs.

1) Smarr left because he was well beyond retirement age and that is a nice way of putting it; 2) "When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at...Princeton" - you must be joking; 3) Recruits would come to Rice if Rice had a strong tennis program.

(08-10-2013 11:09 PM)mens sana Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 09:07 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Smarr left because he had some disappointment in the leadership in the department. He got tired of fighting the same battles every year, many of which had an impact on recruiting. When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at Duke or Princeton, you sort of become disappointed. Efe and Elizabeth are facing similar problems. Recruits who want to come to Rice and who could have an impact aren't likely to wait weeks and weeks for academic decisions when they have numerous alternatives at other top programs.

1) Smarr left because he was well beyond retirement age and that is a nice way of putting it; 2) "When you lose a top recruit because he is allegedly not academically qualified and he immediately ends up at...Princeton" - you must be joking; 3) Recruits would come to Rice if Rice had a decent tennis program. Rice does not and that is a reflection of the coach (can't blame it on the stadium any longer) so why would a recruit choose Rice?

Efe and Elizabeth face the same problems? Not really. Elizabeth has had no problems building a top 20 program with a team that ended the 2010-11 season ranked 71. She brings out the best in her players, Natalie came to Rice with a losing record 1-3 vs. blue chip recruits and ended 2012-13 an All American in Singles. Rice mens tennis ended the 2012-13 season unranked for the first time in years. Results speak for themselves, excuses are just that.

At least we still have a tennis team. Not a peep regarding our orphan sports. Swimming was a sport at Rice for over 40 years before it was axed. Rice fencing was a NCAA qualifier in the 50s before cut. We need to increase the sport offerings at Rice to compete with the Ivies and other highly selective privates.

A great story was that of Butler Perryman '39 who got permission (but no funding) and went to the Southwest Conference meet and won the diving competition. Would have been a shoo in for the 1940 Olympics had WWII not forced the games cancelation. Similarly, Fred Sklar's 50's era fencing exploits and trip to the NCAA championship are notable.

(08-29-2013 09:27 PM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  At least we still have a tennis team. Not a peep regarding our orphan sports. Swimming was a sport at Rice for over 40 years before it was axed. Rice fencing was a NCAA qualifier in the 50s before cut. We need to increase the sport offerings at Rice to compete with the Ivies and other highly selective privates.

A great story was that of Butler Perryman '39 who got permission (but no funding) and went to the Southwest Conference meet and won the diving competition. Would have been a shoo in for the 1940 Olympics had WWII not forced the games cancelation. Similarly, Fred Sklar's 50's era fencing exploits and trip to the NCAA championship are notable.

Wasn't (isn't?) the female US Olympic boxer from Houston a Rice student? I believe she had deferred acceptance for training. At least I read that around the time of the London games

We had good tennis teams in the early 1970s so maybe the memory kept tennis alive.

(08-29-2013 09:27 PM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  At least we still have a tennis team. Not a peep regarding our orphan sports. Swimming was a sport at Rice for over 40 years before it was axed. Rice fencing was a NCAA qualifier in the 50s before cut. We need to increase the sport offerings at Rice to compete with the Ivies and other highly selective privates.

A great story was that of Butler Perryman '39 who got permission (but no funding) and went to the Southwest Conference meet and won the diving competition. Would have been a shoo in for the 1940 Olympics had WWII not forced the games cancelation. Similarly, Fred Sklar's 50's era fencing exploits and trip to the NCAA championship are notable.