Triple
There is a huge difference between te ND situation and BYU. With strength of schedule as part of the criteria,BYU will have a tougher road because scheduling Idaho,NMSU and SJSU towards end of season will kill any shot at being considered even remotely playoff worthy. ND will not have such problems. A Big East schedule in November would help BYUs SOS and shot at those games.

(06-10-2012 03:46 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Triple
There is a huge difference between te ND situation and BYU. With strength of schedule as part of the criteria,BYU will have a tougher road because scheduling Idaho,NMSU and SJSU towards end of season will kill any shot at being considered even remotely playoff worthy. ND will not have such problems. A Big East schedule in November would help BYUs SOS and shot at those games.

You must be misreading what I'm trying to say, or I'm not saying it clearly. I agree with you. All I'm saying is that ND is not going to be shut out of a playoff, so neither is BYU, b/c they are both indy. Therefore, that will NOT be a reason that pushes BYU to the BE. I'm not weighing how hard it will be for either to get into a playoff. It will be hard for both, so I simply choose not to count that as a reason, and call it a neutral influence.

I was responding to another poster who thought if ND got shut out of a playoff, then that would push BYU to us. I was saying that won't happen. b/c ND won't be shut out. Maybe that's why it seemed confusing.

HOWEVER, BYU will be pushed to the BE b/c they have scheduling problems in November, and b/c they feel they have nothing to play for. That is NOT the way ND looks at it. Also, BYU is running out of options, since the B12 is no linger considering them, unless something drastic changes. Again, that's not an issue for ND.

ND will stay indy. BYU could very well end up in the BE, but not b/c ND will be shut out of anything. That's all I was trying to say.

(06-09-2012 11:49 PM)TripleA Wrote:  The B12 has stopped talking to BYU, and now has no plans to add them. That cuts BYU's current options to the BE, or independence.

You really don't know if the Big 12 has dropped plans to add BYU. Just like we don't know if the Big 12 will or will not invite UL to their conference.

(06-10-2012 01:00 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 12:05 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Careful what you wish for. With that logic, you could have ND joining a conference.

I fully appreciate the value of ND to the Big East, but if it came down to a choice between keeping them as a non-football member or adding BYU for football, I would take BYU in a heartbeat.

Hold your horses GA. As mush as I enyoy reading your posts I kindly disagree with this one. I see you are aware of the value ND is to the BE, but let's not forget ND is the reason for today's Big East attractive appearance. And if not for ND we (Houston, Boise St., Navy, Memphis ect.) may NOT be in the Big East conference now. Don't get me wrong, I like BYU and I hope they become part of the BE. That said, what has BYU ever done for The Big East??? I don't know GA, I guess what bothers me more about BYU is that they have/show the ME and NOT the WE mentality more often then not. Just my .02

(06-10-2012 07:24 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 03:46 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Triple
There is a huge difference between te ND situation and BYU. With strength of schedule as part of the criteria,BYU will have a tougher road because scheduling Idaho,NMSU and SJSU towards end of season will kill any shot at being considered even remotely playoff worthy. ND will not have such problems. A Big East schedule in November would help BYUs SOS and shot at those games.

You must be misreading what I'm trying to say, or I'm not saying it clearly. I agree with you. All I'm saying is that ND is not going to be shut out of a playoff, so neither is BYU, b/c they are both indy.

There is a lot of distance between a system where "BYU has a real shot at a playoff as an indy", and a system that "locks out Notre Dame."

Notre Dame is content as long as there is any window at all--count independents as a conference, and the top-ranked independent is the "conference champion", 3 conference champs and one wildcard, etc.

BYU will look a little more closely at whether that window is at all achievable. If SOS is a factor, and BYU has a steady November diet of Idaho, NMSU and Army, that could easily keep a 11-1 or even 12-0 BYU out of the top four. Notre Dame has A) much more desire to stay independent and B) has a much better schedule, so SOS doesn't scare Notre Dame at all.

Quote:Therefore, that will NOT be a reason that pushes BYU to the BE. I'm not weighing how hard it will be for either to get into a playoff. It will be hard for both, so I simply choose not to count that as a reason, and call it a neutral influence.

For Notre Dame, "getting in the playoffs as an indy is hard, but it's not impossible. Good enough, we're staying indy."
For BYU, getting in the playoffs as an indy is harder than as a conference member. That's a big reason to join a conference.

Quote:I was responding to another poster who thought if ND got shut out of a playoff, then that would push BYU to us. I was saying that won't happen. b/c ND won't be shut out. Maybe that's why it seemed confusing.

HOWEVER, BYU will be pushed to the BE b/c they have scheduling problems in November, and b/c they feel they have nothing to play for. That is NOT the way ND looks at it. Also, BYU is running out of options, since the B12 is no linger considering them, unless something drastic changes. Again, that's not an issue for ND.

ND will stay indy. BYU could very well end up in the BE, but not b/c ND will be shut out of anything. That's all I was trying to say.

If SOS, and/or a selection committee, is part of the Final Four selection process, that makes BYU's scheduling problems worse--the bad teams that they have to schedule not only drag down TV and gate revenue, they also hold BYU back from competing in the playoffs.

Notre Dame isn't scared of a selection committee or a point system for SOS. They're staying indy unless someone makes a rule barring independents from the national championship.

(06-10-2012 07:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(06-09-2012 11:49 PM)TripleA Wrote:  The B12 has stopped talking to BYU, and now has no plans to add them. That cuts BYU's current options to the BE, or independence.

You really don't know if the Big 12 has dropped plans to add BYU. Just like we don't know if the Big 12 will or will not invite UL to their conference.

Yes, I do.

(06-10-2012 08:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 07:24 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 03:46 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Triple
There is a huge difference between te ND situation and BYU. With strength of schedule as part of the criteria,BYU will have a tougher road because scheduling Idaho,NMSU and SJSU towards end of season will kill any shot at being considered even remotely playoff worthy. ND will not have such problems. A Big East schedule in November would help BYUs SOS and shot at those games.

You must be misreading what I'm trying to say, or I'm not saying it clearly. I agree with you. All I'm saying is that ND is not going to be shut out of a playoff, so neither is BYU, b/c they are both indy.

There is a lot of distance between a system where "BYU has a real shot at a playoff as an indy", and a system that "locks out Notre Dame."

Notre Dame is content as long as there is any window at all--count independents as a conference, and the top-ranked independent is the "conference champion", 3 conference champs and one wildcard, etc.

BYU will look a little more closely at whether that window is at all achievable. If SOS is a factor, and BYU has a steady November diet of Idaho, NMSU and Army, that could easily keep a 11-1 or even 12-0 BYU out of the top four. Notre Dame has A) much more desire to stay independent and B) has a much better schedule, so SOS doesn't scare Notre Dame at all.

Quote:Therefore, that will NOT be a reason that pushes BYU to the BE. I'm not weighing how hard it will be for either to get into a playoff. It will be hard for both, so I simply choose not to count that as a reason, and call it a neutral influence.

For Notre Dame, "getting in the playoffs as an indy is hard, but it's not impossible. Good enough, we're staying indy."
For BYU, getting in the playoffs as an indy is harder than as a conference member. That's a big reason to join a conference.

Quote:I was responding to another poster who thought if ND got shut out of a playoff, then that would push BYU to us. I was saying that won't happen. b/c ND won't be shut out. Maybe that's why it seemed confusing.

HOWEVER, BYU will be pushed to the BE b/c they have scheduling problems in November, and b/c they feel they have nothing to play for. That is NOT the way ND looks at it. Also, BYU is running out of options, since the B12 is no linger considering them, unless something drastic changes. Again, that's not an issue for ND.

ND will stay indy. BYU could very well end up in the BE, but not b/c ND will be shut out of anything. That's all I was trying to say.

If SOS, and/or a selection committee, is part of the Final Four selection process, that makes BYU's scheduling problems worse--the bad teams that they have to schedule not only drag down TV and gate revenue, they also hold BYU back from competing in the playoffs.

Notre Dame isn't scared of a selection committee or a point system for SOS. They're staying indy unless someone makes a rule barring independents from the national championship.

IF ND gets shut out, then so does BYU. If ND does NOT get shut out, then TECHNICALLY, neither does BYU.

But indy or in the BE, BYU would probably have to go undefeated to have any shot at the top 4, so I'm not sure that is enough of a difference to push them to the BE. It would likely be harder to go undefeated in the BE, than as an indy, and the difference in SOS likely wouldn't make up for a defeat.

However, the scheduling thing certainly would push them to the BE.

The current BCS agreement only provides ND with an automatic berth if it's ranked int the top 8. Not any independent, just Notre Dame. Independents are afforded the possibility of an at-large selection, but then again so does everyone. I could reasonably see a similar arrangement in the new BCS, because ND has a vote, but not BYU, Army, or Navy (although Navy will be in the BE in 2015).

(06-10-2012 11:38 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  The current BCS agreement only provides ND with an automatic berth if it's ranked int the top 8. Not any independent, just Notre Dame. Independents are afforded the possibility of an at-large selection, but then again so does everyone. I could reasonably see a similar arrangement in the new BCS, because ND has a vote, but not BYU, Army, or Navy (although Navy will be in the BE in 2015).

I agree with that. IF ND gets a special exemption, then yeah, they could get in, and BYU couldn't. I doubt that happens, though. It would be more likely that they just do a 3 +1, or 4 CCs, with a Top 4 indy exception.

(06-10-2012 01:00 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 12:05 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Careful what you wish for. With that logic, you could have ND joining a conference.

I fully appreciate the value of ND to the Big East, but if it came down to a choice between keeping them as a non-football member or adding BYU for football, I would take BYU in a heartbeat.

Except that if we lose ND to another conference there is a good chance we also lose another member if ND goes to the ACC, B1G or XII. Those conferences would need to round out their numbers most likely at our expense. UofL and Rutgers being the two biggest targets.

(06-11-2012 12:27 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 11:38 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  The current BCS agreement only provides ND with an automatic berth if it's ranked int the top 8. Not any independent, just Notre Dame. Independents are afforded the possibility of an at-large selection, but then again so does everyone. I could reasonably see a similar arrangement in the new BCS, because ND has a vote, but not BYU, Army, or Navy (although Navy will be in the BE in 2015).

I agree with that. IF ND gets a special exemption, then yeah, they could get in, and BYU couldn't. I doubt that happens, though. It would be more likely that they just do a 3 +1, or 4 CCs, with a Top 4 indy exception.

I think ND will get itself considered as a conf. champion while BYU would only qualify as an at-large, if they went a 3+1 or top 4 (in top 6). It's a subtle difference, but a big one if both ND and BYU were to be in the top 6 with 2 conf. champions and 2 other non-champs. It could very well leave BYU on the outside looking in while ND gets a shot - even if they're ranked lower.

(06-10-2012 10:56 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 10:16 AM)panite Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 09:44 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 09:20 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The PAC 12 already has the Utah market, and they don't want BYU anyway.

The Big 12 could probably add FSU & Clemson (if they really wanted them). They're not even looking at BYU anymore.

The only realistic option for BYU is the Big East, and it's a perfect fit. We get another solid program in the West, where we need it. And BYU gets: 1) better schedules, 2) better bowls, 3) more national exposure, and 4) more money. And BYU is a little quirky, just like the rest of us on this island of misfit toys.

It's just a matter of making the contracts work.

Thats the main problem for BYU...who has a long-term deal with ESPN through 2018 (worth approx $1 Million - $1.2 Million per home game), plus, gives BYU rights to one home game for BYUTV, plus, access to former games as well.

Have not read what the penalty would be for BYU "breaking" that contract with ESPN...and if BYU joins Big East and the conf decides to go with NBC over ESPN...odds are, ESPN will bring out the big guns to hold BYU accountable for their deal (as evidenced by ESPN's winning law suit over FOX/CUSA).

If BYU did not have their own deal with ESPN, odds are, they would have joined last fall with all the other new teams...but add in their deal with ESPN, plus all of the independent game deals for the upcoming years...it might be a while before BYU sees positive cash flow just by joining Big East for football only.

What is the length of the contract. Does it run out when they would possibly enter in 2015.

I actually bolded that part in my original post...

Now in this one I also underlined it for you as well.

I believe we answered about the same time othewise I would not have asked the question. I caught your original answer today. Thanks for the infomation. By the way doesn't Navy have some contracts that they intend to honor after they enter the BE too. I believe they have some TV and Bowl contracts that do not end until around 2018 too. They may pertain to TV rights with the Army / Navy Game but I am not sure. Any answers to that out there. Thanks in advance.

(06-11-2012 08:37 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(06-11-2012 12:27 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 11:38 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  The current BCS agreement only provides ND with an automatic berth if it's ranked int the top 8. Not any independent, just Notre Dame. Independents are afforded the possibility of an at-large selection, but then again so does everyone. I could reasonably see a similar arrangement in the new BCS, because ND has a vote, but not BYU, Army, or Navy (although Navy will be in the BE in 2015).

I agree with that. IF ND gets a special exemption, then yeah, they could get in, and BYU couldn't. I doubt that happens, though. It would be more likely that they just do a 3 +1, or 4 CCs, with a Top 4 indy exception.

I think ND will get itself considered as a conf. champion while BYU would only qualify as an at-large, if they went a 3+1 or top 4 (in top 6). It's a subtle difference, but a big one if both ND and BYU were to be in the top 6 with 2 conf. champions and 2 other non-champs. It could very well leave BYU on the outside looking in while ND gets a shot - even if they're ranked lower.

Yeah, I suppose that could happen, but I doubt it. I think it's a safer bet that they make an indy exception. After all, there are only 4 or so indy teams in FBS FB right now.

(06-11-2012 09:39 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-11-2012 08:37 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(06-11-2012 12:27 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2012 11:38 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  The current BCS agreement only provides ND with an automatic berth if it's ranked int the top 8. Not any independent, just Notre Dame. Independents are afforded the possibility of an at-large selection, but then again so does everyone. I could reasonably see a similar arrangement in the new BCS, because ND has a vote, but not BYU, Army, or Navy (although Navy will be in the BE in 2015).

I agree with that. IF ND gets a special exemption, then yeah, they could get in, and BYU couldn't. I doubt that happens, though. It would be more likely that they just do a 3 +1, or 4 CCs, with a Top 4 indy exception.

I think ND will get itself considered as a conf. champion while BYU would only qualify as an at-large, if they went a 3+1 or top 4 (in top 6). It's a subtle difference, but a big one if both ND and BYU were to be in the top 6 with 2 conf. champions and 2 other non-champs. It could very well leave BYU on the outside looking in while ND gets a shot - even if they're ranked lower.

Yeah, I suppose that could happen, but I doubt it. I think it's a safer bet that they make an indy exception. After all, there are only 4 or so indy teams in FBS FB right now.

Good point, but keep in mind this may all be moot if they go to a selection committee.

If NBCs desire is content, then they shouldn't object if BYU keeps its contract with ESPN. NBC would still get away BYU games, yes? And the NBE should agree just to get BYU, kind of the best football Brand left out there (except ND). As a fan, I would approve and let BYU keep their ESPN deal which would put their home division foes on ESPN. Not a terrible thing. Am I missing something?

Speaking from experience, having BYU in your league is a nightmare.

(06-11-2012 09:51 AM)Aztecbo Wrote:  Speaking from experience, having BYU in your league is a nightmare.

Never been in a league with BYU, but we have been in one with Texas. I cant imagine it would be much worse. That said, I would think that a football only membership would likley eliminate most of the headaches that might come with BYU. With the TV rights and exposure issues setteled in a written contract prior to entrance into the league, I suspect BYU will be little different from any other member this time around....at least I hope so.

(06-11-2012 09:47 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(06-11-2012 09:39 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Yeah, I suppose that could happen, but I doubt it. I think it's a safer bet that they make an indy exception. After all, there are only 4 or so indy teams in FBS FB right now.

Good point, but keep in mind this may all be moot if they go to a selection committee.

Why? They still have to have selection guidelines, even with a selection committee.

(06-11-2012 09:47 AM)AusTxPony Wrote:  If NBCs desire is content, then they shouldn't object if BYU keeps its contract with ESPN. NBC would still get away BYU games, yes? And the NBE should agree just to get BYU, kind of the best football Brand left out there (except ND). As a fan, I would approve and let BYU keep their ESPN deal which would put their home division foes on ESPN. Not a terrible thing. Am I missing something?

Well that's assuming those games end up on espn. The world wide leader could bury them on espn3 to spite us.

(06-11-2012 10:15 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(06-11-2012 09:47 AM)AusTxPony Wrote:  If NBCs desire is content, then they shouldn't object if BYU keeps its contract with ESPN. NBC would still get away BYU games, yes? And the NBE should agree just to get BYU, kind of the best football Brand left out there (except ND). As a fan, I would approve and let BYU keep their ESPN deal which would put their home division foes on ESPN. Not a terrible thing. Am I missing something?

Well that's assuming those games end up on espn. The world wide leader could bury them on espn3 to spite us.

Who cares. They could do what they want with them. By that point the Big East's television exposure will not be significantly effected by what ESPN does with 6 BYU homes games. If the BYU game was the best game ESPN had available on a given evening, then I doubt it would end up on ESPN 3. Chances are, it will rarely be the top game available to ESPN, so it isnt likley it would have been on ESPN anyway.