(03-27-2012 01:22 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:08 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

Yeah the thought he is getting a free pass is silly. While there are reasons he had 2 straight losing seasons if he manages a third with probably the easiest schedule we have played in 20 years that's going to be a massive failure. This is the first time in as long as I can remember we have played less than 3 AQ teams. 7 wins is a flat out minimum with the roster we are returning.

Might have a little more to do with finding a new coach in a league that is undoubtably less glamorous (relative) than before. The conference schedule in 2013 will be what we will endure going forward. Not what we see in 2012, no matter how easy one might think it is with road trips to USM and UCF. JMO.

Have you looked at our home schedule? We haven't played an easier group than this in Greenville in years

Houston-Keenum and new coach
Marshall
App
Navy
Memphis
UTEP

Road games at Tulane, UAB, a USM team with a new coach and QB, and UNC with a new coach. We return 14 starters, a pile of lettermen, and have as much depth as we have had since Skip left. If you are a decent coach you win 7 games at least with that schedule and our roster. There is one great team on our schedule, USC East, and that's it. Now I think he would probably survive another 5-7 season, but it would be ugly. Worse than that and he'll be gone. However, I fully expect to win a lot of games next year, so I doubt we have to worry about it.

(03-27-2012 12:29 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:18 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  That's under 60% of capacity.

So when students gets D's at ECU, did they "basically" Ace the class?

even at that we still have a higher average attendance than the rest of the MAC...

I'm not disputing Marshall's overall attendance number, just that their move to CUSA didn't help them in attendance at all. This article claims it might have actually went down since they left the MAC. Likely because Marshall's new opponents are too far away. If Marshall comes back to the MAC, attendance won't change either (maybe go back up). I think Cincinnati's attendance at 32,000 has barely moved over the last few years despite joining the Big East. Consequently ECU's attendance (assuming they were allowed to keep all Saturday games), would stay the same if they joined the MAC.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/72869...try/page/2

(03-27-2012 01:34 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:22 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:08 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

Yeah the thought he is getting a free pass is silly. While there are reasons he had 2 straight losing seasons if he manages a third with probably the easiest schedule we have played in 20 years that's going to be a massive failure. This is the first time in as long as I can remember we have played less than 3 AQ teams. 7 wins is a flat out minimum with the roster we are returning.

Might have a little more to do with finding a new coach in a league that is undoubtably less glamorous (relative) than before. The conference schedule in 2013 will be what we will endure going forward. Not what we see in 2012, no matter how easy one might think it is with road trips to USM and UCF. JMO.

Have you looked at our home schedule? We haven't played an easier group than this in Greenville in years

Houston-Keenum and new coach
Marshall
App
Navy
Memphis
UTEP

Road games at Tulane, UAB, a USM team with a new coach and QB, and UNC with a new coach. We return 14 starters, a pile of lettermen, and have as much depth as we have had since Skip left. If you are a decent coach you win 7 games at least with that schedule and our roster. There is one great team on our schedule, USC East, and that's it. Now I think he would probably survive another 5-7 season, but it would be ugly. Worse than that and he'll be gone. However, I fully expect to win a lot of games next year, so I doubt we have to worry about it.

If he can't win more than 5 with that schedule he deserves to be gone. I love Ruff and hope he wins but he earned getting fired if he can't win more than 5. IMO we're looking at 8 wins or better next season if a QB steps up. QB could be addition by subtraction if we can just find a game manager that makes smart decisions and rely on defense a little more. Defense should be as deep as we've seen in a while.

(03-27-2012 12:18 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  That's under 60% of capacity.

So when students gets D's at ECU, did they "basically" Ace the class?

I hope that wasn't directed at me. If it was, then you missed the point.

(03-27-2012 01:44 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:34 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:22 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:08 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

Yeah the thought he is getting a free pass is silly. While there are reasons he had 2 straight losing seasons if he manages a third with probably the easiest schedule we have played in 20 years that's going to be a massive failure. This is the first time in as long as I can remember we have played less than 3 AQ teams. 7 wins is a flat out minimum with the roster we are returning.

Might have a little more to do with finding a new coach in a league that is undoubtably less glamorous (relative) than before. The conference schedule in 2013 will be what we will endure going forward. Not what we see in 2012, no matter how easy one might think it is with road trips to USM and UCF. JMO.

Have you looked at our home schedule? We haven't played an easier group than this in Greenville in years

Houston-Keenum and new coach
Marshall
App
Navy
Memphis
UTEP

Road games at Tulane, UAB, a USM team with a new coach and QB, and UNC with a new coach. We return 14 starters, a pile of lettermen, and have as much depth as we have had since Skip left. If you are a decent coach you win 7 games at least with that schedule and our roster. There is one great team on our schedule, USC East, and that's it. Now I think he would probably survive another 5-7 season, but it would be ugly. Worse than that and he'll be gone. However, I fully expect to win a lot of games next year, so I doubt we have to worry about it.

If he can't win more than 5 with that schedule he deserves to be gone. I love Ruff and hope he wins but he earned getting fired if he can't win more than 5. IMO we're looking at 8 wins or better next season if a QB steps up. QB could be addition by subtraction if we can just find a game manager that makes smart decisions and rely on defense a little more. Defense should be as deep as we've seen in a while.

Your guys lost close games at Marshall and UTEP last year and both of those teams bring a lot back too. I expect both of those games plus Navy will be very close.

I find it humorous when I view the CUSA board and they are talking of expansion teams, the ECU fans mention how they want to expand and form an Alliance East Division Pod to cut travel and build regional rivalries with teams (that some have mentioned) as Marshall (of course), Ohio, UMass, Old Dominion, ECU, and 1-3 more teams. Hmmm, maybe those 1-3 more teams could be Buffalo, Akron, and Miami and its called the MAC East.

It reminds me of the old "Pepsi Challenge" commercials where they would blindfold the participants (fans) and have them try a sample between Coke (Alliance Pod Thingy) and Pepsi (MAC East) and then they would remove the blindfold (stigma of "MAC" name) and the participants (fans) would say "Wow, thats really Pepsi (MAC East) !!!"

Pepsi Challenge Division:

ECU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Ohio
UMass
Miami
Buffalo
Akron

That division is better than any eastern division the Alliance can field and addresses all travel / rivalry concerns. Would be very stable and any minor details like mid-week vs Saturday games could be worked out. The TV deal could then be re-negotiated and improved. ECU and Marshall fans could still schedule Southern Miss and UAB out-of-conference every year similar to how Marshall currently schedules Ohio every year (but would no longer need to now). There would be 2 more out-of-conference openings for games vs UNC, VT, WVU, App St., etc...

Stigma (blindfold) is standing in the way.
.

Oh

(03-27-2012 02:56 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I find it humorous when I view the CUSA board and they are talking of expansion teams the ECU fans mention how they want to expand and form an Alliance East Division Pod to cut travel and build regional rivalries with teams that some have mentioned as Marshall (of course), Ohio, UMass, Old Dominion, ECU, and 1-3 more teams. Hmmm, maybe those 1-3 more teams could be Buffalo, Akron, and Miami and its called the MAC East.

It reminds me of the old "Pepsi Challenge" commercials where they would blindfold the participants (fans) and have them try a sample between Coke (Alliance Pod Thingy) and Pepsi (MAC East) and then they would remove the blindfold (stigma of "MAC" name) and the participants (fans) would say "Wow, thats really Pepsi (MAC East) !!!"

Pepsi Challenge Division:

ECU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Ohio
UMass
Miami
Buffalo
Akron

That division is better than any eastern division the Alliance can field and addresses all travel / rivalry concerns. Would be very stable and any minor details like mid-week vs Saturday games could be worked out. The TV deal could then be re-negotiated and improved. ECU and Marshall fans could still schedule Southern Miss and UAB out-of-conference every year similar to how Marshall currently schedules Ohio every year (but would no longer need to now). There would be 2 more out-of-conference openings for games vs UNC, VT, WVU, App St., etc...

Stigma (blindfold) is standing in the way.
.

Oh

Oh yes stigma is a huge issue with that idea. How exactly would our administration sell to our fan base that all the effort we put in to upgrading our situation failed and now we are joining the MAC? Even if it was a better situation (up for debate) it's a PR disaster around here. Not to mention I don't know if the MAC is going to bend over backwards for our likely demands, which would likely be FB only and no forced mid-week home games.

ECU and Marshall are not going to the Mac. They are and will remain proud members of CUSA which will still be light years ahead of the Mac once this is over. Cusa will either go to 9 or back to 12 raiding the Sunbelt or Wac as needed.

(03-27-2012 03:24 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  ECU and Marshall are not going to the Mac. They are and will remain proud members of CUSA which will still be light years ahead of the Mac once this is over. Cusa will either go to 9 or back to 12 raiding the Sunbelt or Wac as needed.

Proud members wouldn't be most ECU fans feeling on the situation.

(03-27-2012 03:24 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  ECU and Marshall are not going to the Mac. They are and will remain proud members of CUSA which will still be light years ahead of the Mac once this is over. Cusa will either go to 9 or back to 12 raiding the Sunbelt or Wac as needed.

I agree, I don't think it would happen, but its my view that one of the reasons it wouldn't happen is somewhat silly and it does make some sense. I'd give that exact scenario 100x the probability of happening if somehow it was Terry Holland's idea and the name was changed from "MAC East" to "USA East". LOL


That division in basketball would be real solid too.

(03-27-2012 03:32 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 03:24 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  ECU and Marshall are not going to the Mac. They are and will remain proud members of CUSA which will still be light years ahead of the Mac once this is over. Cusa will either go to 9 or back to 12 raiding the Sunbelt or Wac as needed.

I agree, I don't think it would happen, but its my view that one of the reasons it wouldn't happen is somewhat silly and it does make some sense. I'd give that exact scenario 100x the probability of happening if somehow it was Terry Holland's idea and the name was changed from "MAC East" to "USA East". LOL


That division in basketball would be real solid too.

I agree with that, because perception is reality, and the perception if we just joined the MAC would be to most that we just dropped down a level. If we formed a new league with like MAC East and a couple of others it would probably be viewed more favorably by some ECU fans. Of course most are just going to be pissed no matter what realistic option we choose. Pretty much anything we do has to at least have the appearances that we are moving forward, even if it's not, because we gotta keep selling the idea that all our money spent and investing in facilities and everything else wasn't a complete waste.

(03-27-2012 03:28 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 03:24 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  ECU and Marshall are not going to the Mac. They are and will remain proud members of CUSA which will still be light years ahead of the Mac once this is over. Cusa will either go to 9 or back to 12 raiding the Sunbelt or Wac as needed.

Proud members wouldn't be most ECU fans feeling on the situation.

But is the official statement until something changes. UCF is a proud member of CUSA for one more year. We had nowhere better to go in 2003, and it has been a good home for us. Until a better offer comes Ecu's way it is the best choice available, esp if the alliance is indeed dead.

(03-27-2012 02:56 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I find it humorous when I view the CUSA board and they are talking of expansion teams, the ECU fans mention how they want to expand and form an Alliance East Division Pod to cut travel and build regional rivalries with teams (that some have mentioned) as Marshall (of course), Ohio, UMass, Old Dominion, ECU, and 1-3 more teams. Hmmm, maybe those 1-3 more teams could be Buffalo, Akron, and Miami and its called the MAC East.

It reminds me of the old "Pepsi Challenge" commercials where they would blindfold the participants (fans) and have them try a sample between Coke (Alliance Pod Thingy) and Pepsi (MAC East) and then they would remove the blindfold (stigma of "MAC" name) and the participants (fans) would say "Wow, thats really Pepsi (MAC East) !!!"

Pepsi Challenge Division:

ECU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Ohio
UMass
Miami
Buffalo
Akron

That division is better than any eastern division the Alliance can field and addresses all travel / rivalry concerns. Would be very stable and any minor details like mid-week vs Saturday games could be worked out. The TV deal could then be re-negotiated and improved. ECU and Marshall fans could still schedule Southern Miss and UAB out-of-conference every year similar to how Marshall currently schedules Ohio every year (but would no longer need to now). There would be 2 more out-of-conference openings for games vs UNC, VT, WVU, App St., etc...

Stigma (blindfold) is standing in the way.
.

Oh

The biggest thing holding the MAC back are the EMUs and Ball States (I know they had one good year, but it was an anomoly) that are just plain bad in nearly every aspect of their athletic program, and don't really care at an institutional level about getting better.

Also factor in the fact that ECU's fanbase has pretty much NOTHING in common with the MAC. It would never happen. It does nothing for us to be associated with 3 Michigan schools and I don't even know how many Ohio schools.

ECU and Marshall wants to be in a Southern conference with USM first and foremost. I'd like schools like Arkansas State and Louisiana Tech in there also. I might be in the minority on that but I don't buy into market being the most important thing. Culturally LaTech and Ark St match USM, ECU and Marshall VERY well.

There has to be a mix of large and small market schools, as long as they're all Southern schools. UNT, UTSA, Georgia State and ODU are good additions if we must chase markets.

(03-27-2012 03:50 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 03:28 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 03:24 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  ECU and Marshall are not going to the Mac. They are and will remain proud members of CUSA which will still be light years ahead of the Mac once this is over. Cusa will either go to 9 or back to 12 raiding the Sunbelt or Wac as needed.

Proud members wouldn't be most ECU fans feeling on the situation.

But is the official statement until something changes. UCF is a proud member of CUSA for one more year. We had nowhere better to go in 2003, and it has been a good home for us. Until a better offer comes Ecu's way it is the best choice available, esp if the alliance is indeed dead.

I don't think the Alliance is dead. I think it will become what was initially talked about. A football only merger of sorts with the other parts of the conferences remaining separate for the Olympic sports. If the MAC was the best thing going after all other options were exhausted, so be it, just would want Marshall / USM in the conference with us.

(03-27-2012 03:53 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 02:56 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I find it humorous when I view the CUSA board and they are talking of expansion teams, the ECU fans mention how they want to expand and form an Alliance East Division Pod to cut travel and build regional rivalries with teams (that some have mentioned) as Marshall (of course), Ohio, UMass, Old Dominion, ECU, and 1-3 more teams. Hmmm, maybe those 1-3 more teams could be Buffalo, Akron, and Miami and its called the MAC East.

It reminds me of the old "Pepsi Challenge" commercials where they would blindfold the participants (fans) and have them try a sample between Coke (Alliance Pod Thingy) and Pepsi (MAC East) and then they would remove the blindfold (stigma of "MAC" name) and the participants (fans) would say "Wow, thats really Pepsi (MAC East) !!!"

Pepsi Challenge Division:

ECU
Marshall
Old Dominion
Ohio
UMass
Miami
Buffalo
Akron

That division is better than any eastern division the Alliance can field and addresses all travel / rivalry concerns. Would be very stable and any minor details like mid-week vs Saturday games could be worked out. The TV deal could then be re-negotiated and improved. ECU and Marshall fans could still schedule Southern Miss and UAB out-of-conference every year similar to how Marshall currently schedules Ohio every year (but would no longer need to now). There would be 2 more out-of-conference openings for games vs UNC, VT, WVU, App St., etc...

Stigma (blindfold) is standing in the way.
.

Oh

The biggest thing holding the MAC back are the EMUs and Ball States (I know they had one good year, but it was an anomoly) that are just plain bad in nearly every aspect of their athletic program, and don't really care at an institutional level about getting better.

I'm not going to comment on any schools in particular but that's one of my biggest issues with every non-AQ league. There appear to be a few schools in every league who just for whatever reason do the bare minimum to get by. It's part of the reason there are a lot of FCS schools I am higher on that FBS ones. I think there are several of those schools who have much more drive and commitment to improve themselves than a good number of current FBS schools.

Doubt if ECU or Marshall fans--or UAB or USM or Tulane, etc., etc. are too thrilled with what remains of their league, but they are still in line to earn more than MAC schools and be higher on the food chain from the image standpoint whether true or not.

It makes much sense for part of the MAC to join with Marshall and ECU in an eastern division of whatever conference though. Competitively Ohio, and usually Toledo and Miami OH can stand toe to toe with the CUSA schools in football and even moreso in basketball.

maybe something like:

Toledo, Miami O., Ohio, Marshall, ECU, JMU

UAB, USM, Tulane, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP

(03-27-2012 04:07 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Doubt if ECU or Marshall fans--or UAB or USM or Tulane, etc., etc. are too thrilled with what remains of their league, but they are still in line to earn more than MAC schools and be higher on the food chain from the image standpoint whether true or not.

It makes much sense for part of the MAC to join with Marshall and ECU in an eastern division of whatever conference though. Competitively Ohio, and usually Toledo and Miami OH can stand toe to toe with the CUSA schools in football and even moreso in basketball.

maybe something like:

Toledo, Miami O., Ohio, Marshall, ECU, JMU

UAB, USM, Tulane, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP

Too many Ohio teams. Substitute JMU with ODU and one of the Ohio schools for say a GA State and personally I could deal with that lineup. Throw in Mid Tenn State in the East and La Tech in the West to get to 14 and that's a solid conference. Adds Ohio, Virginia, Tennessee (replacing Memphis) and Georgia. Then have a scheduling agreement with the nBE and settle it once and for all on the field. If nBE don't want to play along, then have a scheduling agreement with the MWC.

(03-27-2012 03:56 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  Also factor in the fact that ECU's fanbase has pretty much NOTHING in common with the MAC. It would never happen. It does nothing for us to be associated with 3 Michigan schools and I don't even know how many Ohio schools.

ECU and Marshall wants to be in a Southern conference with USM first and foremost. I'd like schools like Arkansas State and Louisiana Tech in there also. I might be in the minority on that but I don't buy into market being the most important thing. Culturally LaTech and Ark St match USM, ECU and Marshall VERY well.

There has to be a mix of large and small market schools, as long as they're all Southern schools. UNT, UTSA, Georgia State and ODU are good additions if we must chase markets.

Fair enough, I see your point from ECU's perspective.

We recently signed a 2-2 with Marshall (football) and I look forward to the re-newed rivalry. It was intense in the 90's and I still remember Chad Pennington and Randy Moss rolling into Oxford (and Miami beating them by 3+ TDs :-) ). Marshall was good for the MAC while they were in and I respect their program.

.

(03-27-2012 01:34 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:22 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:08 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

Yeah the thought he is getting a free pass is silly. While there are reasons he had 2 straight losing seasons if he manages a third with probably the easiest schedule we have played in 20 years that's going to be a massive failure. This is the first time in as long as I can remember we have played less than 3 AQ teams. 7 wins is a flat out minimum with the roster we are returning.

Might have a little more to do with finding a new coach in a league that is undoubtably less glamorous (relative) than before. The conference schedule in 2013 will be what we will endure going forward. Not what we see in 2012, no matter how easy one might think it is with road trips to USM and UCF. JMO.

Have you looked at our home schedule? We haven't played an easier group than this in Greenville in years

Houston-Keenum and new coach
Marshall
App
Navy
Memphis
UTEP

Road games at Tulane, UAB, a USM team with a new coach and QB, and UNC with a new coach. We return 14 starters, a pile of lettermen, and have as much depth as we have had since Skip left. If you are a decent coach you win 7 games at least with that schedule and our roster. There is one great team on our schedule, USC East, and that's it. Now I think he would probably survive another 5-7 season, but it would be ugly. Worse than that and he'll be gone. However, I fully expect to win a lot of games next year, so I doubt we have to worry about it.

I don't disagree at all that our conference schedule on paper is easier than in the recent past. Maybe my use of the phrase "free pass" was a little over the top.

I think we're more on the same page than you realize. If Ruff were on the hot seat, he would not survive a 5-7 season. After this amount of time most coaches would not get that kind waiver. IMO, Ruff isn't really even on the warm seat. If he is, it's only slightly warm.

Remember, we're talking right now. If the schedule is as easy as many think, then the bar should be higher for him to keep his job...and I get no indication that Ruff is anywhere near losing his job. If he can keep his job with 5-7 or better and this easy of a schedule, then he's been given a virtual pass to me.

If he does worse than 5-7, I agree, he will probably have a hard time keeping his job. I think any coach would go from slightly warm to in the fire. IMO, it's the fact that he is an alum as well as the shifting conference situation that is buying him the extra time and the ability to finish between 5-7 and 7-5 without a change.

Let's hope he does win and we don't have to find out.