(03-27-2012 08:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, some kids take the student part of student athlete very seriously. Former FSU football player, Myron Rolle comes to mind. I'm sure you can come up with about a hundred examples yourself, in whatever sport you choose, if you stop and think about it for more than a second...

Then again, there are kids like Fab Melo, who are only there to try out for the pros, and when they've done enough to prove themselves to be a high draft choice, they forget all about the student side, since they really had no concern for school at all. They were only there to play...

And I don't care how much income you think they generate for the school, HtownOrange. Next year, without the guy, Syracuse will be generating the same kind of income. So this guy didn't generate diddly. He just used a popular platform for his application campaign. He should pay back everything the school gave him for that opportunity. He didn't EARN it, and it's not his by right...

I look at some of the statements made by so-called "intelligent" people, and wonder what thought processes, if any, were used to come up with their conclusions. They make wild generalizations, without any basis in fact, other than those preconceived by the OP, so the world will fit to their preconceptions...

From the comments I've seen, which side of the fence you're on for this issue depends on whether you are solely a basketball fan or not. Those who lean more towards football agree with my opinion, and those who favor basketball don't. It's as simple as that...

Good points (in bolded part).

Not sure though what being a football or hoop fan has to do with this topic though (maybe more of a coincidence/generalization for some).

(03-26-2012 08:56 PM)TerryD Wrote:  All schools should just sign and play the type of kids I have highlighted in your post.

I would be ok with that. It would then truly deserve to be called "college basketball", not the sham that exists today.

The other kids could play in an NBA minor league, developmental league or overseas for a paycheck.

Simple. Problem solved. Playing field leveled. No AAU or "street agent" problems.

Require the kids to take 15 credit hours a semester and require at least a 2.5 GPA to remain eligible.

If they do not sufficiently progress academically, suspend them from playing until they reach and maintain the requirements.

Apply the same thing to college football too. Make the "student" part of "student athlete" mean something.

Terry in every moral sense you are 100 percent correct. But colleges make 100's of millions off the athletic types. And frankly most college administrators could care less about he future of an athlete. If they make the pros they can hit em up for cash. If they don't they can come back to clean the dome on weekends.

I just don't see the push to make student-athletes responsible when no adults in the system will ever act responsibly. Nobody's giving up the money making system and if there was a move to have kids stay in college for two years, it would be more milk their talents longer, no to push them closer to their degree.

NCAA wanted to go to a 128 game tournament to make even more money while taking even more athletes from smaller school out of the classroom even longer.

(03-27-2012 08:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, some kids take the student part of student athlete very seriously. Former FSU football player, Myron Rolle comes to mind. I'm sure you can come up with about a hundred examples yourself, in whatever sport you choose, if you stop and think about it for more than a second...

Then again, there are kids like Fab Melo, who are only there to try out for the pros, and when they've done enough to prove themselves to be a high draft choice, they forget all about the student side, since they really had no concern for school at all. They were only there to play...

And I don't care how much income you think they generate for the school, HtownOrange. Next year, without the guy, Syracuse will be generating the same kind of income. So this guy didn't generate diddly. He just used a popular platform for his application campaign. He should pay back everything the school gave him for that opportunity. He didn't EARN it, and it's not his by right...

I look at some of the statements made by so-called "intelligent" people, and wonder what thought processes, if any, were used to come up with their conclusions. They make wild generalizations, without any basis in fact, other than those preconceived by the OP, so the world will fit to their preconceptions...

From the comments I've seen, which side of the fence you're on for this issue depends on whether you are solely a basketball fan or not. Those who lean more towards football agree with my opinion, and those who favor basketball don't. It's as simple as that...

I may be denser this morning than usual, Bit, but I can't tell if you agree or disagree with my post.

(03-27-2012 10:46 AM)Ottoman Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 08:56 PM)TerryD Wrote:  All schools should just sign and play the type of kids I have highlighted in your post.

I would be ok with that. It would then truly deserve to be called "college basketball", not the sham that exists today.

The other kids could play in an NBA minor league, developmental league or overseas for a paycheck.

Simple. Problem solved. Playing field leveled. No AAU or "street agent" problems.

Require the kids to take 15 credit hours a semester and require at least a 2.5 GPA to remain eligible.

If they do not sufficiently progress academically, suspend them from playing until they reach and maintain the requirements.

Apply the same thing to college football too. Make the "student" part of "student athlete" mean something.

Terry in every moral sense you are 100 percent correct. But colleges make 100's of millions off the athletic types. And frankly most college administrators could care less about he future of an athlete. If they make the pros they can hit em up for cash. If they don't they can come back to clean the dome on weekends.

I just don't see the push to make student-athletes responsible when no adults in the system will ever act responsibly. Nobody's giving up the money making system and if there was a move to have kids stay in college for two years, it would be more milk their talents longer, no to push them closer to their degree.

NCAA wanted to go to a 128 game tournament to make even more money while taking even more athletes from smaller school out of the classroom even longer.

But there are schools like Stanford, Duke, BC, ND, Northwestern and Vandy that have high grade rates and no APR problems.

http://www.und.com/genrel/102511aaa.html

Tim Abromatis was Big East Scholar Athlete of the Year three straight times.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogalle...lete-award


Classroom

"Abromaitis graduated with a 3.73 GPA in Finance from Notre Dame’s Mendoza College of Business in the spring of 2010. He was a member of the Dean’s List three times. Abromaitis also earned his MBA in an 11-month intensified program and is believed to have been one of the youngest individuals to ever enroll in the program.

Currently, he is enrolled as a non-degree seeking graduate student. Abromaitis has been named the Big East Men’s Basketball Scholar Athlete of the Year each of the last two seasons, he was named the recipient of the Big East Scholar-Athlete Sport Excellence in both 2010 and ’11 and he’s a three-time member of the Big East all-academic team.

Additionally, Abromaitis has been named a first-team Capital One Academic All-American in each of the last two years and was also a member of the District V all-academic team and was also named recipient of the Notre Dame Club of St. Joseph Valley Rockne Student-Athlete Award in 2010 and ’11. During the summer of 2011, he interned in Notre Dame’s investment office."



He was a pretty good basketball player, too.


"As a junior, Abromaitis earned third-team All-Big East honors after averaging 15.4 points and 6.1 rebounds per game. He became the 51st player in Notre Dame history to score 1,000 career points and over the course of the last two years has scored 1,089 points for a 16.3 average. As a sophomore, Abromaitis earned Big East honorable-mention honors after averaging 16.1 points and 4.7 rebounds per game. He has been a member of three NCAA tournament teams."


http://www.seniorclassaward.com/athletes...bromaitis/


Does anyone remember star ND running back Julius Jones? In 2002, he did not meet ND academic requirements, although he did meet NCAA requirements and was eligible to play football.

ND suspended him from school for the entire year. He enrolled at Arizona State University, worked hard to improve his grades and petitioned for to re-enroll into ND.

He was accepted a year later and ended up graduating from Notre Dame. How many schools would suspend their starting running back even though he met NCAA academic eligibility requirements?

I mention ND stuff because I am well aware of them. I am sure that there are a lot of schools who can cite similar things.

However, many schools need to get serious about making sure they recruit more kids who have a desire to graduate and provide the necessary support and potential penalties to help them do so.

Don't recruit and sign the kids that are not interested in going to class and doing what is necessary to graduate.

If a school doesn't do what is necessary, then strip them of scholarships and punish them with post-season bans.

It can be done. I don't blame the kids, I blame the coaches, the athletic departments and the schools.

(03-27-2012 11:29 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Don't recruit and sign the kids that are not interested in going to class and doing what is necessary to graduate.

Apparently, at the CUSE we're happy if they just pass the drug test. I mean, if you can't pass a drug test do you think you're really in college to get good grades?

But I agree setting a standard and holding the student/athletes to that standards is in the best interest of the university and the student athletes.

I do, however, believe that student/athletes should be free to leave college any time they want to. I don't know if Bill Gates was on scholarship at Harvard, but he was a one and done. When opportunity knocks... Did the Facebook guy graduate?

Also, especially in college football, a kid could stay an extra year, get injured and lose out on his dream forever. I'd let them go when ever they want to go. But as long as they are in college, they must meet the standard.

(03-27-2012 11:08 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, some kids take the student part of student athlete very seriously. Former FSU football player, Myron Rolle comes to mind. I'm sure you can come up with about a hundred examples yourself, in whatever sport you choose, if you stop and think about it for more than a second...

Then again, there are kids like Fab Melo, who are only there to try out for the pros, and when they've done enough to prove themselves to be a high draft choice, they forget all about the student side, since they really had no concern for school at all. They were only there to play...

And I don't care how much income you think they generate for the school, HtownOrange. Next year, without the guy, Syracuse will be generating the same kind of income. So this guy didn't generate diddly. He just used a popular platform for his application campaign. He should pay back everything the school gave him for that opportunity. He didn't EARN it, and it's not his by right...

I look at some of the statements made by so-called "intelligent" people, and wonder what thought processes, if any, were used to come up with their conclusions. They make wild generalizations, without any basis in fact, other than those preconceived by the OP, so the world will fit to their preconceptions...

From the comments I've seen, which side of the fence you're on for this issue depends on whether you are solely a basketball fan or not. Those who lean more towards football agree with my opinion, and those who favor basketball don't. It's as simple as that...

I may be denser this morning than usual, Bit, but I can't tell if you agree or disagree with my post.

I agreed with you, which you'd have figured out had you read this thread a couple of cups of coffee later in the day...

But I got on a rant, and you know how I get...

(03-27-2012 02:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 11:08 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, some kids take the student part of student athlete very seriously. Former FSU football player, Myron Rolle comes to mind. I'm sure you can come up with about a hundred examples yourself, in whatever sport you choose, if you stop and think about it for more than a second...

Then again, there are kids like Fab Melo, who are only there to try out for the pros, and when they've done enough to prove themselves to be a high draft choice, they forget all about the student side, since they really had no concern for school at all. They were only there to play...

And I don't care how much income you think they generate for the school, HtownOrange. Next year, without the guy, Syracuse will be generating the same kind of income. So this guy didn't generate diddly. He just used a popular platform for his application campaign. He should pay back everything the school gave him for that opportunity. He didn't EARN it, and it's not his by right...

I look at some of the statements made by so-called "intelligent" people, and wonder what thought processes, if any, were used to come up with their conclusions. They make wild generalizations, without any basis in fact, other than those preconceived by the OP, so the world will fit to their preconceptions...

From the comments I've seen, which side of the fence you're on for this issue depends on whether you are solely a basketball fan or not. Those who lean more towards football agree with my opinion, and those who favor basketball don't. It's as simple as that...

I may be denser this morning than usual, Bit, but I can't tell if you agree or disagree with my post.

I agreed with you, which you'd have figured out had you read this thread a couple of cups of coffee later in the day...

But I got on a rant, and you know how I get...

(03-27-2012 08:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, some kids take the student part of student athlete very seriously. Former FSU football player, Myron Rolle comes to mind. I'm sure you can come up with about a hundred examples yourself, in whatever sport you choose, if you stop and think about it for more than a second...

Then again, there are kids like Fab Melo, who are only there to try out for the pros, and when they've done enough to prove themselves to be a high draft choice, they forget all about the student side, since they really had no concern for school at all. They were only there to play...

And I don't care how much income you think they generate for the school, HtownOrange. Next year, without the guy, Syracuse will be generating the same kind of income. So this guy didn't generate diddly. He just used a popular platform for his application campaign. He should pay back everything the school gave him for that opportunity. He didn't EARN it, and it's not his by right...

I look at some of the statements made by so-called "intelligent" people, and wonder what thought processes, if any, were used to come up with their conclusions. They make wild generalizations, without any basis in fact, other than those preconceived by the OP, so the world will fit to their preconceptions...

From the comments I've seen, which side of the fence you're on for this issue depends on whether you are solely a basketball fan or not. Those who lean more towards football agree with my opinion, and those who favor basketball don't. It's as simple as that...

Bit, I agree with TerryD. You later agree with TerryD. Ergo, you and I agree. I made no comment about revenue generated by Melo. I made a comment that most of these kids aren't that stupid and if they were coerced a little into studying they would be adequate academic students as well as athletes.

I am all for enforcing standards for college entrance and progress towards a degree. Oklahoma would lose half their historical wins if they had real students on the team...same with many other schools.

(03-27-2012 01:21 PM)Ottoman Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 11:29 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Don't recruit and sign the kids that are not interested in going to class and doing what is necessary to graduate.

Apparently, at the CUSE we're happy if they just pass the drug test. I mean, if you can't pass a drug test do you think you're really in college to get good grades?

But I agree setting a standard and holding the student/athletes to that standards is in the best interest of the university and the student athletes.

I do, however, believe that student/athletes should be free to leave college any time they want to. I don't know if Bill Gates was on scholarship at Harvard, but he was a one and done. When opportunity knocks... Did the Facebook guy graduate?

Also, especially in college football, a kid could stay an extra year, get injured and lose out on his dream forever. I'd let them go when ever they want to go. But as long as they are in college, they must meet the standard.

They can...at the end of each semester...and if they are in GOOD academic standing, it doesn't penalize the Univ's APR score.

APR scores are penalized only when said players leave their schools when they are NOT in good academic standing.

(03-27-2012 08:30 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, some kids take the student part of student athlete very seriously. Former FSU football player, Myron Rolle comes to mind. I'm sure you can come up with about a hundred examples yourself, in whatever sport you choose, if you stop and think about it for more than a second...

Then again, there are kids like Fab Melo, who are only there to try out for the pros, and when they've done enough to prove themselves to be a high draft choice, they forget all about the student side, since they really had no concern for school at all. They were only there to play...

And I don't care how much income you think they generate for the school, HtownOrange. Next year, without the guy, Syracuse will be generating the same kind of income. So this guy didn't generate diddly. He just used a popular platform for his application campaign. He should pay back everything the school gave him for that opportunity. He didn't EARN it, and it's not his by right...

I look at some of the statements made by so-called "intelligent" people, and wonder what thought processes, if any, were used to come up with their conclusions. They make wild generalizations, without any basis in fact, other than those preconceived by the OP, so the world will fit to their preconceptions...

From the comments I've seen, which side of the fence you're on for this issue depends on whether you are solely a basketball fan or not. Those who lean more towards football agree with my opinion, and those who favor basketball don't. It's as simple as that...

Bit, I agree with TerryD. You later agree with TerryD. Ergo, you and I agree. I made no comment about revenue generated by Melo. I made a comment that most of these kids aren't that stupid and if they were coerced a little into studying they would be adequate academic students as well as athletes.

I am all for enforcing standards for college entrance and progress towards a degree. Oklahoma would lose half their historical wins if they had real students on the team...same with many other schools.

Like I said to Terry, I got on a rant. You know me...

A poster by the handle of caw posted this recently over on the syracusefan.com boards:

The 930 is in full effect in 2014. That is for NCAAT bans and will go as follows:

"In August, the board approved raising the four-year Academic Progress Rate cutline from 900 to 930 and linking that cutline to eligibility for postseason play. On Thursday, it passed a four-year plan to phase in the new requirements."
"During the first two years, 2012-13 and 2013-14, teams scoring below 900 on the four-year average would be ineligible for postseason play unless the averaged 930 on the two most recent years of data. In 2014-15, teams that do not hit the 930 mark would be ineligible unless they averaged 940 in the two most recent years. After that, everyone must hit 930, no exceptions."

So Syracuse will be fine, even for 2013-14.

And since 09-10 (was 1000) and 10-11 (will probably be between 950 -1000) we will have two good years in by the time the 930 comes completely into play.

Also Dion Waiters has tweeted that he will finish the semester. Of course we are still dealing with a teenager here. But he did come back this season much more mature than last, so it's a better than 50/50 chance he means it.

Cheers,
Neil