This may not be be an issue until Syracuse is in the ACC but are the Orange in upcoming APR trouble?
UConn is missing the 2013 tourney. Now for Syracuse we have the Melo situation. We don't know for sure but it appears he may be an APR drain. I also have been reading some other sites over the last few days on potential NBA early entry guys. It sounds like Waiters is gone maybe by choice but also because he wouldn't be academically eligible for this fall even if he wanted to come back.
If both are true I can't imagine there is much of a safety zone over the cutoff if Melo and Waiters leave the program ineligible this semester.
Per the link, UConn is arguing that the policy itself is invalid, and that the NCAA needs to change how it assesses performance in the broader sense. That's a tough argument on appeal but we'll soon see what happens.
What'll happen is that UConn ends up serving the suspension they were levied...
(03-25-2012 03:40 PM)CollegeCard Wrote: [ -> ]This may not be be an issue until Syracuse is in the ACC but are the Orange in upcoming APR trouble?
UConn is missing the 2013 tourney. Now for Syracuse we have the Melo situation. We don't know for sure but it appears he may be an APR drain. I also have been reading some other sites over the last few days on potential NBA early entry guys. It sounds like Waiters is gone maybe by choice but also because he wouldn't be academically eligible for this fall even if he wanted to come back.
If both are true I can't imagine there is much of a safety zone over the cutoff if Melo and Waiters leave the program ineligible this semester.
As OrangeCrush says, not much we can do about. Supposedly the 2014 year we will be ineligible.
Amazing how Kentucky gets all of its early entrants to complete their Spring semester academically eligible.
What a cesspool. Hope you guys demolish them.
Cheers,
Neil
(03-25-2012 05:58 PM)omniorange Wrote: [ -> ]As OrangeCrush says, not much we can do about. Supposedly the 2014 year we will be ineligible.
Amazing how Kentucky gets all of its early entrants to complete their Spring semester academically eligible.
What a cesspool. Hope you guys demolish them.
Cheers,
Neil
Thanks Neil. I was curious if Syracuse fans had any further info on either guy. As for UK, I hope it all comes out eventually like it did at UMass and Memphis. The guy is crooked as is the program. It's not a matter of if they cheat, it's if they'll get caught.
Joking aside I'm not confident Bledsoe is fully literate.
We aren't sure...50/50 shot...however, we hear Wes Johnson 2009 is finishing his degree and that will help. The rule is BS as schools are relying in immature future multimillionaires to finish their schoolwork in the spring semester.
(03-25-2012 10:25 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ]The rule is BS as schools are relying in immature future multimillionaires to finish their schoolwork in the spring semester.
And is that wrong?
Or should basketball players only be required to attend class and pass just 2 or 3 classes in the Fall to be fully eligible for the Spring Semester with ZERO penalty on the program if those hoop players never attend class or do class work required from Jan thru April/May?
No one is forces these kids to attend college...as if they don't want to do minimum school work (believe they only need to pass 6 or 9 hours per semester to be eligible), they can always go play pro ball in Europe.
Considering all the "help" these players have available (legally, and in some cases illegally), there is zero excuse for them to not pass a few BASIC classes (i.e. we are not taking high level chemistry or calculus here).
The one and done policy has killed college ball. These kids should just play in the NBA developmental league, since that's all they come to college for - to play ball in the hope of making one of the NBA teams. Isn't that what a developmental league is for?
IMO they should just let 'em do that from the start, and not waste a university's resources that could be better spent on someone who actually wants an education...
(03-26-2012 08:06 AM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ]The one and done policy has killed college ball. These kids should just play in the NBA developmental league, since that's all they come to college for - to play ball in the hope of making one of the NBA teams. Isn't that what a developmental league is for?
IMO they should just let 'em do that from the start, and not waste a university's resources that could be better spent on someone who actually wants an education...
That's an option...yet few seem to take it up.
Believe the fist HS player to enter straight into the NBA D-League was Latavious Williams, who ironically was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO stupid in HS, that after 4 years of HS in Mississippi, he passed just 2 out of the 16 core classes...(then went to prep school for 1 year where he AMAZINGLY passed all other 14 in just 2 semesters...then signed to play college ball at MEMPHIS, then faced challenges to getting enrolled...then just opted out for the D-League.)
He is currently playing pro ball in Spain, averaging 9.4 pts per game (was drafted in the 2nd round of the NBA Draft after his first year in D-League...then was traded from Miami to Oklahoma City...then sent back to D-League...then signed with a team overseas).
(03-26-2012 07:27 AM)KnightLight Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2012 10:25 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ]The rule is BS as schools are relying in immature future multimillionaires to finish their schoolwork in the spring semester.
And is that wrong?
Or should basketball players only be required to attend class and pass just 2 or 3 classes in the Fall to be fully eligible for the Spring Semester with ZERO penalty on the program if those hoop players never attend class or do class work required from Jan thru April/May?
No one is forces these kids to attend college...as if they don't want to do minimum school work (believe they only need to pass 6 or 9 hours per semester to be eligible), they can always go play pro ball in Europe.
Considering all the "help" these players have available (legally, and in some cases illegally), there is zero excuse for them to not pass a few BASIC classes (i.e. we are not taking high level chemistry or calculus here).
The problem is the NBA quality or wannabe NBA kids get sucked into prepping for the draft/workouts, etc...after they are done playing. Sure some kids can handle it but some don't...the APR will just encourage schools to cheat.
(03-26-2012 08:44 AM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2012 07:27 AM)KnightLight Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2012 10:25 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ]The rule is BS as schools are relying in immature future multimillionaires to finish their schoolwork in the spring semester.
And is that wrong?
Or should basketball players only be required to attend class and pass just 2 or 3 classes in the Fall to be fully eligible for the Spring Semester with ZERO penalty on the program if those hoop players never attend class or do class work required from Jan thru April/May?
No one is forces these kids to attend college...as if they don't want to do minimum school work (believe they only need to pass 6 or 9 hours per semester to be eligible), they can always go play pro ball in Europe.
Considering all the "help" these players have available (legally, and in some cases illegally), there is zero excuse for them to not pass a few BASIC classes (i.e. we are not taking high level chemistry or calculus here).
The problem is the NBA quality or wannabe NBA kids get sucked into prepping for the draft/workouts, etc...after they are done playing. Sure some kids can handle it but some don't...the APR will just encourage schools to cheat.
Thats up to the school and player.
Yes, APR, as any academic minimum can be easily manipulated (remember, it was the member institutions that VOTED on the APR score minimums and penalties) yet it's still better than what was in place before (i.e. academic progression towards a degree was never a concern).
The minimums are just that...minimums, that will MINIMAL effort, it doesn't take much work at all to finish up their spring semester studies...leaving scores of hours available for NBA "draft" training/workouts as most classes are finished by late April (with some exams taking place in May).
Between all the ONLINE courses athletes are taking today...many never have to leave their dorm or apartment...and obviously don't even need to be in the same city to pass some or even all of their classwork.
(03-26-2012 08:50 AM)KnightLight Wrote: [ -> ]Between all the ONLINE courses athletes are taking today...many never have to leave their dorm or apartment...and obviously don't even need to be in the same city to pass some or even all of their classwork.
Not all Big East schools offer (or permit) online courses.
(03-26-2012 09:25 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2012 08:50 AM)KnightLight Wrote: [ -> ]Between all the ONLINE courses athletes are taking today...many never have to leave their dorm or apartment...and obviously don't even need to be in the same city to pass some or even all of their classwork.
Not all Big East schools offer (or permit) online courses.
Ok...thats up to each institution...but a quick glance shows Big East schools Syracuse, UCONN, DePaul, USF, Marquette et al all offer online courses...plus even those courses that are NOT online many times their requirements/papers have to be sent in via online methods...which has actually been a blessing for athletes during road trips...where school work can still be completed/finished and sent in, even when players are still "on the road".
Believe virtually ALL teams travel with at least one tutor for each and every road trip.
(03-26-2012 08:06 AM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ]The one and done policy has killed college ball. These kids should just play in the NBA developmental league, since that's all they come to college for - to play ball in the hope of making one of the NBA teams. Isn't that what a developmental league is for?
What I'd like to see the NCAA do is have student-athletes sign a contract with their university. The university would be required to guarantee the student athlete a scholarship for a minimum of three years (provided they do the work in the class room) with the option to extend it for a fourth year.
- If an athlete leaves early, the school would forfeit that scholarship for the remainder of the three year contract period (e.g. a school would not be able to use the scholarship of a one-and-done for another player until the three year period had elapsed).
- Any athlete leaving early would be required to repay the full value of their scholarship (3 years of tuition, book stipends, room and board, etc) to the university they attended.
In the absence of the NBA passing a "three year" requirement in their draft regulations, that would penalize universities for making a mockery of the student-athlete system (one and dones). On the flip side, it would also give universities some protection/compensation if a kid decides to take off before their scholarship clock runs out.
I know UCONN has been the poster child for this APR thing, but does anyone know that had they implemented this APR thing this year 13 teams would not have qualified for the NCAA including this year's Syracuse.
This APR thing is kind of stupid in that it punishes current players for the grades of kids from 3 years ago. FYI, current APR for this year's UCONN team is 985. Meanwhile, Kentucky is making a mockery of the entire system by turning over its roster with 1 and dones every single year. I am wondering what kind of classes these Kentucky players are taking to keep their APR afloat.
I believe to truly protect the college game NCAA needs to enforce the 3 years college NCAA rule. If you want to attend college, you either sign up for 3 years or you do the D-League in the NBA. If your sole purpose is the NBA and nothing else, go to the D-League since that's what it is for.
(03-26-2012 11:11 AM)SF Husky Wrote: [ -> ]I believe to truly protect the college game NCAA needs to enforce the 3 years college NCAA rule. If you want to attend college, you either sign up for 3 years or you do the D-League in the NBA. If your sole purpose is the NBA and nothing else, go to the D-League since that's what it is for.
I agree that college basketball needs to get rid of the one-and done issue. It is making a mockery of student athletes and the NCAA at large. The problem is that until the NBA (specifically the NBA player's union) agrees to a 3 year rule, there isn't a whole lot the NCAA can do about it without drastically altering the way scholarships work. The NCAA itself actually doesn't have any 3 year rules on its books. What it does have is an agreement with the MLB and NFL to put eligibility requirements in place that essentially create a "3 year rule".
For example, the MLB draft regulations give an athlete a number of options:
1) enter the draft right out of high school
2) go to a junior college, where you will be eligible for the draft at the end of your first and second seasons
3) go to a four-year university, where you will not be eligible for the pros until you finish your junior year or turn 21.
Those draft regulations are the only thing that keeps baseball players at universities from entering the draft early.
(03-26-2012 11:19 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2012 11:11 AM)SF Husky Wrote: [ -> ]I believe to truly protect the college game NCAA needs to enforce the 3 years college NCAA rule. If you want to attend college, you either sign up for 3 years or you do the D-League in the NBA. If your sole purpose is the NBA and nothing else, go to the D-League since that's what it is for.
I agree that college basketball needs to get rid of the one-and done issue. It is making a mockery of student athletes and the NCAA at large. The problem is that until the NBA (specifically the NBA player's union) agrees to a 3 year rule, there isn't a whole lot the NCAA can do about it without drastically altering the way scholarships work. The NCAA itself actually doesn't have any 3 year rules on its books. What it does have is an agreement with the MLB and NFL to put eligibility requirements in place that essentially create a "3 year rule".
For example, the MLB draft regulations give an athlete a number of options:
1) enter the draft right out of high school
2) go to a junior college, where you will be eligible for the draft at the end of your first and second seasons
3) go to a four-year university, where you will not be eligible for the pros until you finish your junior year or turn 21.
Those draft regulations are the only thing that keeps baseball players at universities from entering the draft early.
I agree with you. I hope something is done soon because the current system is obviously broken. All the new APR rule accomplished is enabling more schools to cheat to get their APR afloat yearly. Kids either have to decide 3 years of college or go straight to the Pros. College should not a stop over for kids on the way to the NBA. Kids who attend 1 year of college should not be in college at all.
(03-26-2012 11:04 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2012 08:06 AM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ]The one and done policy has killed college ball. These kids should just play in the NBA developmental league, since that's all they come to college for - to play ball in the hope of making one of the NBA teams. Isn't that what a developmental league is for?
What I'd like to see the NCAA do is have student-athletes sign a contract with their university. The university would be required to guarantee the student athlete a scholarship for a minimum of three years (provided they do the work in the class room) with the option to extend it for a fourth year.
- If an athlete leaves early, the school would forfeit that scholarship for the remainder of the three year contract period (e.g. a school would not be able to use the scholarship of a one-and-done for another player until the three year period had elapsed).
- Any athlete leaving early would be required to repay the full value of their scholarship (3 years of tuition, book stipends, room and board, etc) to the university they attended.
In the absence of the NBA passing a "three year" requirement in their draft regulations, that would penalize universities for making a mockery of the student-athlete system (one and dones). On the flip side, it would also give universities some protection/compensation if a kid decides to take off before their scholarship clock runs out.
Thats not realistic because you would have to do that in every sport. Some kids leave the school to transfer to another because they rather play somewhere else because the coach leaves or they recruit another kid at your position or are just plain homesick. I mean at St. Johns we had a kid just decided he wanted to quit BBall. Should he be forced to pay for the rest of his scholarship? Thats ridiculous.