After reading through this thread...

One thing NOT mentioned but deserves to be is that OHIO WILL get a nice slice of NCAA basketball monies from the NCAA through the MAC.

As has been discussed the MAC's scheme is to reward schools who achieve and Ohio has achieved very well the last several years.

I'm sure Ohio could take a couple hundred K of those monies and use those funds to extend Groce at a nice salary increase.

I'd like to see MAC schools have bonus clauses in their contracts:

100K for each NCAA tourney win in the first two rounds. 150K additional for a Sweet Sixteen victory.

And say 25K for each NIT win.

(03-26-2012 08:40 AM)emu steve Wrote:  After reading through this thread...

One thing NOT mentioned but deserves to be is that OHIO WILL get a nice slice of NCAA basketball monies from the NCAA through the MAC.

As has been discussed the MAC's scheme is to reward schools who achieve and Ohio has achieved very well the last several years.

I'm sure Ohio could take a couple hundred K of those monies and use those funds to extend Groce at a nice salary increase.

I'd like to see MAC schools have bonus clauses in their contracts:

100K for each NCAA tourney win in the first two rounds. 150K additional for a Sweet Sixteen victory.

And say 25K for each NIT win.

No doubt Ohio gets a rather large boost because of their run.

However, an AD would be foolish to double or triple a head coach's salary based on one run and a sudden increase in funds.

The AD knew what he was doing when the 450k extension was put in place.

Quote:Illinois has approached current Ohio Bobcats coach John Groce about filling its vacant head coaching position and there is mutual interest between the two parties, a source close to the process told Sporting News.

An accomplished recruiter and winning head coach at Ohio, Groce led the Bobats to a pair of NCAA Tournament appearances over the past three seasons, and both teams advanced with victories over major powers despite double-digit seeds. This year’s team became the first No. 13 seed since 2006 to reach the Sweet 16; the Bobcats then lost a regional semifinal game in overtime to No. 1 seed North Carolina.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketb...z1qHRU65EB

Its sounding serious. Bobcat fans should know at the most within two days...

Quote:Barring an 11th-hour surprise, a national coaching search that began amid such promise will end smacking of desperation. If Groce becomes the next Illinois coach as several sources expect, he will accept the job knowing at least five other candidates decided it was not for them. That says more about the process than Groce, a reputable, indefatigable coach who indeed could restore pride to the Illini.

Lingering frustration has less to do with why hiring a 40-year-old with a 34-30 record in the MAC represents such a big risk in the Big Ten. It has more to do with how Thomas put the school in the position to settle for this year’s March college basketball flavor of the month who could be the next Thad Matta — or the next Dan Monson.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/BK...N_7611588/

Quote:Ohio Director of Athletics Jim Schaus said, last week, extension talks with Groce were “ongoing” and that the athletic department would do “all it could” to show the coach continued support. Schaus declined to say how much of a raise Ohio was prepared to offer.

None of the particulars involved were commenting publicly on Monday.

The Illinois athletic department said it would not issue a statement until the Illini had actually made a coaching hire.

Schaus was not available for comment on Monday. Both Ohio Assistant Athletic Director for Media Relations Tom Symonds and Ohio men’s basketball media relations contact Drew Wiseman said Ohio would have no comment.

Groce did not return calls seeking comment.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/col...5279.story

From the sound of Schaus it looks like he may be willing to counteroffer beyond the original 450,000 IF Groce has an offer from Illinois.

The question though is will Groce have an offer from Illinois? If he doesn't I couldn't imagine Ohio feeling forced to pay more than 450,000.

Quote:No hurry. Our top candidate isn't available until next Tuesday, or Sunday at the earliest anyway.

Also according to Arkley "sources" say we made an offer of 500k to Groce.

http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard...=1&page=13

Arkley works for the Athens Messenger and is close to the administration. The initial offer by Ohio to Groce was 500k base, not the 450k reported in the Plain Dealer.

To answer EA's question of how much does the Ohio job pay? The Ohio job pays at least 500,000 so he's not going to make a lateral move to a school like SIU for 750k.

Groce made 300k base this past year. Counting incentives 355,000. I would reason that if Ohio's willing to increase its base to 500k w/ incentives Groce (or the next Ohio coach) should be at about 600k. That is along the lines of what most schools in the MVC, Atlantic 10 or CUSA are paying their men's basketball coaches.

That is not considering any counteroffer by Ohio......750k base with 150k incentives equal 900k per year. That is just short of Shaka or Stevens money and he doesn't deserve that much yet but he's getting at least in the ball park.

Cool. Let us know when an Ohio coach makes 500k or more. Until that happens, you are no different than an unnamed source.

FYI- I said that Groce would jump ship for SIU if it was his best offer. Clearly he is likely getting a much better offer from elsewhere and/or SIU isn't even bothering with a phone call. It's a moot point that can't be proven.

(03-27-2012 07:08 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Cool. Let us know when an Ohio coach makes 500k or more. Until that happens, you are no different than an unnamed source.

FYI- I said that Groce would jump ship for SIU if it was his best offer. Clearly he is likely getting a much better offer from elsewhere and/or SIU isn't even bothering with a phone call. It's a moot point that can't be proven.

Groce was pursued by Nebraska and declined to even interview there. Nebraska I think is now paying Tim Miles 1.5 million.

Solich made 590,000 counting incentives last year so relative to our major sport standard Groce is comparatively under paid.

He declined to interview there because Illinois was calling at the same time! No kidding the guy got multiple phone calls within 48 hours of losing to UNC. Illinois > Nebraska.

Should have specified. Let us know when an Ohio mens bball coach makes 500k. Until that happens, you are reaching and fabricating. And even if it does happen, it's still a long ways away from the 600-900k numbers you've been throwing around.

(03-27-2012 07:51 PM)EA3 Wrote:  He declined to interview there because Illinois was calling at the same time! No kidding the guy got multiple phone calls within 48 hours of losing to UNC. Illinois > Nebraska.

Should have specified. Let us know when an Ohio mens bball coach makes 500k. Until that happens, you are reaching and fabricating. And even if it does happen, it's still a long ways away from the 600-900k numbers you've been throwing around.

600k is only 20% more money than 500k. That isn't a long ways off in today's world of escalating coaching salaries. Groce's last raise at Ohio was 20% (250k to 300k) on his base salary.

Going from 500k to 600k-900k is like going from 50k to 60-90k in money.....if you already making 500k at a school the potential to get into the high 6 figures eventually is obviously there.

Your argument is that Ohio doesn't have the money to pay 600,000 but has the money to pay 500,000. That doesn't hold any water because an extra 100-200k is very little to the overall expenses of an athletic department.

Now if you said Ohio couldn't afford to pay 2.6 million for a year for a basketball coach basing it on the fact that we paid Groce 355k this year and offered him 500k.....that would have some traction because that is 8 to 10 times more than what we offered.

And the issue about spending at Ohio is not about having money as much as it is not spending to far beyond the MAC market rate. Other conferences let a school spend as much as they want but the MAC has rules against schools spending excessively.

That is what you aren't understanding; its not that we'd offer 500k because 600k because we are cheap and like to keep our coach poor (it would hardly make a lifestyle difference to the coach) as much as its un-MAC like to do so.

Wonderful. Again, let us know when Ohio's mens bball coach is making 500k or more. Until that happens you are reaching.

He's got an extension worth 450k. That number isn't going anywhere for at least 12 months. If Ohios AD is dumb enough to bump the salary to 500k if Groce doesn't get the job, then he just threw 50k out the window for no good reason. Your AD went with 450k because he knew there was a darn good chance of Groce being courted elsewhere AND he couldn't set the salary bar too high for his replacement. It's pretty darn hard for an AD to tell an incoming coach that they will get paid significantly less than the extension the previous coach just signed.

It's more likely that Ohio will not be paying 600k+ in the next 5-8 years simply because in order for a coach to be deemed worthy enough of that kind of money, he has to win big. And if he wins big, he gets taken away just like Groce probably will.

(03-27-2012 08:35 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Wonderful. Again, let us know when Ohio's mens bball coach is making 500k or more. Until that happens you are reaching.

He's got an extension worth 450k. That number isn't going anywhere for at least 12 months. If Ohios AD is dumb enough to bump the salary to 500k if Groce doesn't get the job, then he just threw 50k out the window for no good reason. Your AD went with 450k because he knew there was a darn good chance of Groce being courted elsewhere AND he couldn't set the salary bar too high for his replacement. It's pretty darn hard for an AD to tell an incoming coach that they will get paid significantly less than the extension the previous coach just signed.

It's more likely that Ohio will not be paying 600k+ in the next 5-8 years simply because in order for a coach to be deemed worthy enough of that kind of money, he has to win big. And if he wins big, he gets taken away just like Groce probably will.

Larry Hunter was making 100,000 at Ohio in 2000.

Groce is making 300,000 at Ohio in 2010 a 300% increase.

My guess would be by 2020 Ohio would be paying 900,000 for a Men's coach as a going rate. I could see this fairly easily.

You keep telling me that you understand the terms and conditions of Groce's reported extension (which Jason Arkley said was 500k) with out any detail on the bonus structure.

You don't know anything about what is going to be included in the future contract and what will not. And we are certainly not looking at Western Michigan as a guide for anything so why don't you mind your own business?

It's hard to mind my own business when you spew complete nonsense.

You jump to conclusions with zero facts backing you up.

900k? You are off your rocker. What you fail to realize is that a coach at Ohio will never get a chance to get paid that much because in order to make that much, they would have to be really successful. And if they are really successful, a bigger program is going to take them away. Ohio is not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and your AD did not write the book on MAC basketball. Under your scenario, Ohio would be willing to pay an incoming coach 900k right off the bat in 2020.

To recap, Ohio won two games in the tourney. They finished third in the league and were a Brian Walsh jumper away from none of this happening...but yet you think Ohio is going to pony up ridiculous amounts of money for a bball coach. Last week you were sure that Groce was going to double his salary at Ohio. When the figures came out closer to a 50% raise, you backtracked and started spitting out even higher numbers that you think Ohio will be paying. All the while ignoring the fact that Ohio is still in the MAC and could very well not win the league next year or go dancing at all.

(03-27-2012 11:08 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:35 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Wonderful. Again, let us know when Ohio's mens bball coach is making 500k or more. Until that happens you are reaching.

He's got an extension worth 450k. That number isn't going anywhere for at least 12 months. If Ohios AD is dumb enough to bump the salary to 500k if Groce doesn't get the job, then he just threw 50k out the window for no good reason. Your AD went with 450k because he knew there was a darn good chance of Groce being courted elsewhere AND he couldn't set the salary bar too high for his replacement. It's pretty darn hard for an AD to tell an incoming coach that they will get paid significantly less than the extension the previous coach just signed.

It's more likely that Ohio will not be paying 600k+ in the next 5-8 years simply because in order for a coach to be deemed worthy enough of that kind of money, he has to win big. And if he wins big, he gets taken away just like Groce probably will.

Larry Hunter was making 100,000 at Ohio in 2000.

Groce is making 300,000 at Ohio in 2010 a 200% increase.

My guess would be by 2020 Ohio would be paying 900,000 for a Men's coach as a going rate. I could see this fairly easily.

You keep telling me that you understand the terms and conditions of Groce's reported extension (which Jason Arkley said was 500k) with out any detail on the bonus structure.

You don't know anything about what is going to be included in the future contract and what will not. And we are certainly not looking at Western Michigan as a guide for anything so why don't you mind your own business?

fixed

(03-28-2012 08:02 AM)niusfactuary Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 11:08 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:35 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Wonderful. Again, let us know when Ohio's mens bball coach is making 500k or more. Until that happens you are reaching.

He's got an extension worth 450k. That number isn't going anywhere for at least 12 months. If Ohios AD is dumb enough to bump the salary to 500k if Groce doesn't get the job, then he just threw 50k out the window for no good reason. Your AD went with 450k because he knew there was a darn good chance of Groce being courted elsewhere AND he couldn't set the salary bar too high for his replacement. It's pretty darn hard for an AD to tell an incoming coach that they will get paid significantly less than the extension the previous coach just signed.

It's more likely that Ohio will not be paying 600k+ in the next 5-8 years simply because in order for a coach to be deemed worthy enough of that kind of money, he has to win big. And if he wins big, he gets taken away just like Groce probably will.

Larry Hunter was making 100,000 at Ohio in 2000.

Groce is making 300,000 at Ohio in 2010 a 200% increase.

My guess would be by 2020 Ohio would be paying 900,000 for a Men's coach as a going rate. I could see this fairly easily.

You keep telling me that you understand the terms and conditions of Groce's reported extension (which Jason Arkley said was 500k) with out any detail on the bonus structure.

You don't know anything about what is going to be included in the future contract and what will not. And we are certainly not looking at Western Michigan as a guide for anything so why don't you mind your own business?

fixed

"Forget it, he's rolling."

Last I heard was they're trying to find the money to offer him $500k a year.

(03-28-2012 10:38 AM)JSF Wrote:  Last I heard was they're trying to find the money to offer him $500k a year.

You are way off. Didn't you read anything LK wrote? They are already at 500k, they are stone's throw away from 600k...which is pretty darn close to 700k...and no doubt 900k is right around the corner in 2020.

(03-28-2012 10:41 AM)EA3 Wrote:  Didn't you read anything LK wrote?

Mercifully, this board has an ignore feature.

(03-28-2012 03:06 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:41 AM)EA3 Wrote:  Didn't you read anything LK wrote?

Mercifully, this board has an ignore feature.

This.

(03-29-2012 01:30 PM)bronconick Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 03:06 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:41 AM)EA3 Wrote:  Didn't you read anything LK wrote?

Mercifully, this board has an ignore feature.

This.