jons99, NIU has value to the MAC because they are one of 12 teams that are needed to hold a football c-ship. Not to mention, a solid FBS football programs. ISU is years away from having an FBS program, let alone one that is relevant. And it's not like they are a nationally relevant bball program.

LK, did adding Temple or UMASS help out our recruiting in the Northeast? Obviously the results are still out, but I don't see much difference. I find it hard to believe that adding those teams will help our recruiting when the fact remains that we are on tight budgets. Did having Temple increase our brand awareness? Possibly. However, the Philly market is rather large.

In regards to taking a bite out of the MVC, CAA and A10. This isn't happening. I doubt there is one school in any of those conferences that values being an FBS football school right now. They may say they want it, but they aren't willing to join in all sports and downgrade to the MAC in bball. I'm sorry, but they don't see the value in having an FBS football program. They overvalue bball and every single one of them would prefer going the Temple rout and join a BCS conference down the road. This isn't a reality for them, but they dream big and hang their hats on bball.

(02-26-2012 09:26 PM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(02-26-2012 09:19 PM)wleakr Wrote:  

(02-26-2012 07:04 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  No I disagree. To the Chicagoland media, the only schools regularly worth mentioning are TSISB, Northwestern, and Illinois, and other Big Whatever schools. They don't care whether ISU is FBS or not, they won't cover us or ISU more if we play each other as FBS schools any more than they care when we play each other now.

Who is "TSISB"???

The School In South Bend

Thanks...you know I read the Tribune all the time and don't know why that didn't occur to me...I've been living in the Chicago area for almost 10 years and have yet to understand why there is Notre Dame coverage in a Chicago paper...

I don't know why we started a new thread for jons99 to troll, but ISU is not a smart addition. They haven't won a football or basketball MVC title since 1999. And the comparison with Kansas State and Iowa State is ridiculous. Illinois State is known as a good undergrad school (a very recent phenomenon of the last 5-10 years; was known as "I Screwed Up" when I was growing up in central IL) but that's all it will ever be, as is the case with Eastern Illinois. Its growth potential is capped because it's in the shadow of Champaign/Urbana, which blocks any attempt to expand program offerings because they don't want the competition on their doorstep. That's why these programs (law, med, dental etc) go to NIU and SIU, which serve regions. ISU just concentrates on undergrad because that's all they have.

Western Kentucky or SIU would be wiser choices IMO (Missouri State would be but they're too far out of the footprint).

ISU has everything the MAC looks for in a member school. Geography. Academics. Athletics. As long as there is a probable need for an additional MAC member, ISU should be the school of choice.

Yes, there is concern about media market. But no one mentions the Bloomington Normal media market. It's not a lot, but it's something, and it's captive, with it's own local media. They grow big farm boys and girls in Central Illinois, let's introduce them to MACtion, Chambana be damned.

As I've mentioned, until someone, anyone, (of reputation) can show me the marked MAC improvements by having non-midwestern schools in the MAC, I'm all ears. I want to see how having UCF helped the MAC with Florida recruiting. I want to see the numbers on increased viewership for MAC games in the Philadelphia TV market. Show me the increase in the front page of the sports section articles about UMass football. Show me how Marshall's time the MAC led to anything but scandal, ridicule and allegations of favoritism. Where are those hard numbers, the metrics, the dollars and the exposure? Where are the crowds? Why are we not in the BCS discussion?

Based on these numerous previous examples, and closely watching the current discussions, how in sam hell will bringing in a far-eastern school help the MAC? More than likely, they'd use us and abuse us, take us for a bumpy ride, and then throw us to the side when we've outlived our usefullness as they move to a new eastern based FBS conference.

Personally, I think there will be a new CAA-esques FBS conference in a few years, and when that happens, you think Towson (which yes, has been mentioned as a MAC addition!) would throw their lot in with an NIU, a BGSU and a Buffalo? Of course not. How MANY times will the MAC let this happen? And what type of la-la land do you think a school like Delaware, ODU or JMU or Stoney Brook or Vermont or Georgia Southern or North Dakata would commit to the MAC? WHAT TYPE OF LA-LA LAND? We'd gain nothing with those schools except increased travel times.

To think that James Madison will send 9,000 fans to the Pizza Bowl is ludicrous. To think Delaware will bring MAC love to Wilmington, DE and Philadelphia, PA is just plain stupid. Stoney Brook has less in common with MAC schools than it does with Suffolk CC and probably even Harvard. We are not an eastern conference, we do not have eastern values, we do not have an eastern student population, and our schools are not located on the gawd damn East Coast of the United States of America Why keep beating this dead Eastern horse?

Let's concentrate on building the MAC as a strong, stable mid-western conference of like minded academic and athletic schools with clean programs, high graduation rates and good, solid, honest institutions not motivated by anything more than that. Yes, it may be a weak field but ISU is that school. It is the only school who fits like a glove into the MAC.

And, (especially my Huskie friends,) let us not forget that NIU hasn't exactly set the MAC on fire, even after a decade plus of Athletic membership. When we joined the MAC, our football program was years away from having an FBS program, and we did not have a nationally relevant bball program. Football is the front porch today, yes but bball continues to toil in obscurity with no bright future, our Olympic programs typically land in the middle to bottom of their championships, and the Reese and Jacoby Trophies are but unreachable. To say ISU is not good for the MAC for those reasons is to ignore MAC history and ignore the ISU upside.

ISU has everything the MAC looks for in a member school. Geography. Academics. Athletics. As long as there is a probable need for an additional MAC member, ISU should be the school of choice. If UMass leaves, then fine, no ISU.

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  ISU has everything the MAC looks for in a member school. Geography. Academics. Athletics. As long as there is a probable need for an additional MAC member, ISU should be the school of choice.

Yes, there is concern about media market. But no one mentions the Bloomington Normal media market. It's not a lot, but it's something, and it's captive, with it's own local media. They grow big farm boys and girls in Central Illinois, let's introduce them to MACtion, Chambana be damned.

As I've mentioned, until someone, anyone, (of reputation) can show me the marked MAC improvements by having non-midwestern schools in the MAC, I'm all ears. I want to see how having UCF helped the MAC with Florida recruiting. I want to see the numbers on increased viewership for MAC games in the Philadelphia TV market. Show me the increase in the front page of the sports section articles about UMass football. Show me how Marshall's time the MAC led to anything but scandal, ridicule and allegations of favoritism. Where are those hard numbers, the metrics, the dollars and the exposure? Where are the crowds? Why are we not in the BCS discussion?

Based on these numerous previous examples, and closely watching the current discussions, how in sam hell will bringing in a far-eastern school help the MAC? More than likely, they'd use us and abuse us, take us for a bumpy ride, and then throw us to the side when we've outlived our usefullness as they move to a new eastern based FBS conference.

Personally, I think there will be a new CAA-esques FBS conference in a few years, and when that happens, you think Towson (which yes, has been mentioned as a MAC addition!) would throw their lot in with an NIU, a BGSU and a Buffalo? Of course not. How MANY times will the MAC let this happen? And what type of la-la land do you think a school like Delaware, ODU or JMU or Stoney Brook or Vermont or Georgia Southern or North Dakata would commit to the MAC? WHAT TYPE OF LA-LA LAND? We'd gain nothing with those schools except increased travel times.

To think that James Madison will send 9,000 fans to the Pizza Bowl is ludicrous. To think Delaware will bring MAC love to Wilmington, DE and Philadelphia, PA is just plain stupid. Stoney Brook has less in common with MAC schools than it does with Suffolk CC and probably even Harvard. We are not an eastern conference, we do not have eastern values, we do not have an eastern student population, and our schools are not located on the gawd damn East Coast of the United States of America Why keep beating this dead Eastern horse?

Let's concentrate on building the MAC as a strong, stable mid-western conference of like minded academic and athletic schools with clean programs, high graduation rates and good, solid, honest institutions not motivated by anything more than that. Yes, it may be a weak field but ISU is that school. It is the only school who fits like a glove into the MAC.

And, (especially my Huskie friends,) let us not forget that NIU hasn't exactly set the MAC on fire, even after a decade plus of Athletic membership. When we joined the MAC, our football program was years away from having an FBS program, and we did not have a nationally relevant bball program. Football is the front porch today, yes but bball continues to toil in obscurity with no bright future, our Olympic programs typically land in the middle to bottom of their championships, and the Reese and Jacoby Trophies are but unreachable. To say ISU is not good for the MAC for those reasons is to ignore MAC history and ignore the ISU upside.

ISU has everything the MAC looks for in a member school. Geography. Academics. Athletics. As long as there is a probable need for an additional MAC member, ISU should be the school of choice. If UMass leaves, then fine, no ISU.

You think ISU is going to leave the MVC for the MAC in basketball? Until then, forget about it. Not saying the eastern schools necessarily will - they might, though they might then split off into their own conference as you mentioned.

(02-27-2012 11:21 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  You think ISU is going to leave the MVC for the MAC in basketball? Until then, forget about it.

Perhaps not. The ISU Adminstration will decide if the wagon is hitched to MVC basketball or FBS football. The indicators are that the have-nots are basketball focused, while the have-alls are football focused.

I don't argue for ISU because of their situation or their needs or their priorities, I argue for ISU based on the current MAC situation, the MAC's needs, and the MAC's priorities if we have to replace Temple and UMass sticks around.

Also, I am biased because NIU vs ISU on a regular basis would be good for both schools.

(02-27-2012 10:18 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I don't know why we started a new thread for jons99 to troll, but ISU is not a smart addition. They haven't won a football or basketball MVC title since 1999. And the comparison with Kansas State and Iowa State is ridiculous. Illinois State is known as a good undergrad school (a very recent phenomenon of the last 5-10 years; was known as "I Screwed Up" when I was growing up in central IL) but that's all it will ever be, as is the case with Eastern Illinois. Its growth potential is capped because it's in the shadow of Champaign/Urbana, which blocks any attempt to expand program offerings because they don't want the competition on their doorstep. That's why these programs (law, med, dental etc) go to NIU and SIU, which serve regions. ISU just concentrates on undergrad because that's all they have.

Western Kentucky or SIU would be wiser choices IMO (Missouri State would be but they're too far out of the footprint).

No thanks to both ISU and SIU. Strengthen the MAC from within, or bring in a school that will add something to the media footprint. Neither central nor southern Illinois raise the conference's media presence significantly, if at all.

(02-27-2012 10:18 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I don't know why we started a new thread for jons99 to troll, but ISU is not a smart addition. They haven't won a football or basketball MVC title since 1999. And the comparison with Kansas State and Iowa State is ridiculous. Illinois State is known as a good undergrad school (a very recent phenomenon of the last 5-10 years; was known as "I Screwed Up" when I was growing up in central IL) but that's all it will ever be, as is the case with Eastern Illinois. Its growth potential is capped because it's in the shadow of Champaign/Urbana, which blocks any attempt to expand program offerings because they don't want the competition on their doorstep. That's why these programs (law, med, dental etc) go to NIU and SIU, which serve regions. ISU just concentrates on undergrad because that's all they have.

Western Kentucky or SIU would be wiser choices IMO (Missouri State would be but they're too far out of the footprint).

First off, about 95% of ISU athletes are working on undergrad degrees, so why does lack of a law school matter? Those numbers differ at the MAC schools?

And SIU is a terrible choice for the MAC, the demographics are terrible and the school continues to lose enrollment.

(02-27-2012 02:15 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 10:18 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I don't know why we started a new thread for jons99 to troll, but ISU is not a smart addition. They haven't won a football or basketball MVC title since 1999. And the comparison with Kansas State and Iowa State is ridiculous. Illinois State is known as a good undergrad school (a very recent phenomenon of the last 5-10 years; was known as "I Screwed Up" when I was growing up in central IL) but that's all it will ever be, as is the case with Eastern Illinois. Its growth potential is capped because it's in the shadow of Champaign/Urbana, which blocks any attempt to expand program offerings because they don't want the competition on their doorstep. That's why these programs (law, med, dental etc) go to NIU and SIU, which serve regions. ISU just concentrates on undergrad because that's all they have.

Western Kentucky or SIU would be wiser choices IMO (Missouri State would be but they're too far out of the footprint).

No thanks to both ISU and SIU. Strengthen the MAC from within, or bring in a school that will add something to the media footprint. Neither central nor southern Illinois raise the conference's media presence significantly, if at all.

And you still dont get it..NIU captures MAYBE 1% of the population, still a lot left out there to tap into.

ISU brings basketball and baseball facilities that would match any in the conference and a football facility thats seeing a decent size upgrade starting this spring.. Add in a growing Bloomington-Normal area thats the home to both State Farm and Country Financial, decent airport for a community of thise size and easy access to 2 interstates, its rather appealing..

(02-27-2012 06:18 PM)jons99 Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 02:15 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 10:18 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I don't know why we started a new thread for jons99 to troll, but ISU is not a smart addition. They haven't won a football or basketball MVC title since 1999. And the comparison with Kansas State and Iowa State is ridiculous. Illinois State is known as a good undergrad school (a very recent phenomenon of the last 5-10 years; was known as "I Screwed Up" when I was growing up in central IL) but that's all it will ever be, as is the case with Eastern Illinois. Its growth potential is capped because it's in the shadow of Champaign/Urbana, which blocks any attempt to expand program offerings because they don't want the competition on their doorstep. That's why these programs (law, med, dental etc) go to NIU and SIU, which serve regions. ISU just concentrates on undergrad because that's all they have.

Western Kentucky or SIU would be wiser choices IMO (Missouri State would be but they're too far out of the footprint).

No thanks to both ISU and SIU. Strengthen the MAC from within, or bring in a school that will add something to the media footprint. Neither central nor southern Illinois raise the conference's media presence significantly, if at all.

And you still dont get it..NIU captures MAYBE 1% of the population, still a lot left out there to tap into.

ISU brings basketball and baseball facilities that would match any in the conference and a football facility thats seeing a decent size upgrade starting this spring.. Add in a growing Bloomington-Normal area thats the home to both State Farm and Country Financial, decent airport for a community of thise size and easy access to 2 interstates, its rather appealing..

Thankfully, I don't think anyone gets that but you.

Can we kill this thread now?

I find it funny that so many NIU fans are afraid of ISU joining the MAC..

(02-28-2012 08:46 AM)jons99 Wrote:  I find it funny that so many NIU fans are afraid of ISU joining the MAC..

I highly doubt that !!
It would be like Toledo sweating if Youngstown State somehow nudged their way into the MAC...

But there is a difference, overall the ISU athletic program is better than NIU's.. and while the gap is currently huge in football, ISU seems comitted to getting things improved. ISU might not be a perfect option now because of football, but its a growing school with solid academics that continues to firm up its stance as the #2 public school in the state..

Yes, ISU is "committed to improving" their football program. You do realize that EVERY PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY is committed to improving. The real test is how well they show they can do that. Every team WANTS to win. But until you actually accomplish something, it's just a bunch of hot air.

Well they did finish third in the conference this year and everyone expects them to be better next, so things are getting better..

ISU will never grow to the size of NIU or SIU; it will never be anything more than a nice undergrad college; it's deep in the heart of Illini country and will never capture the central IL market; and it hasn't won a football or basketball title in the MVC or made the Dance since 1999. All this talk about a bright future and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee.

(02-28-2012 09:15 AM)jons99 Wrote:  But there is a difference, overall the ISU athletic program is better than NIU's.. and while the gap is currently huge in football, ISU seems comitted to getting things improved. ISU might not be a perfect option now because of football, but its a growing school with solid academics that continues to firm up its stance as the #2 public school in the state..

Sounds like it will be quite a while before ISU is ready for FBS football, and by then the FBS football landscape might have changed quite a bit. Seems to change by the week, nowadays. And like I said, we wouldn't want ISU for football only. I don't want ANY school for football only.

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  ISU has everything the MAC looks for in a member school. Geography. Academics. Athletics. As long as there is a probable need for an additional MAC member, ISU should be the school of choice.

What athletics do they bring? Football is the bread and butter in college sports and they aren't competitive in the 1-AA ranks. Their basketball hasn't made the tournament since almost as long as us. The MAC needs to add value not just more members for sake of splitting money and bowls more ways.

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Yes, there is concern about media market. But no one mentions the Bloomington Normal media market. It's not a lot, but it's something, and it's captive, with it's own local media. They grow big farm boys and girls in Central Illinois, let's introduce them to MACtion, Chambana be damned.

Central Illinois is U of I territory and always will be. I bet half the population (or more) in Bloomington rather go to a U of I game than an ISU game and that would not change if they joined the MAC.

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Based on these numerous previous examples, and closely watching the current discussions, how in sam hell will bringing in a far-eastern school help the MAC? More than likely, they'd use us and abuse us, take us for a bumpy ride, and then throw us to the side when we've outlived our usefullness as they move to a new eastern based FBS conference.

The midwest is pretty tapped out in terms of potential and population growth. Most of us are in Big Ten country and adding ISU is not going to help grow the MAC brand or add value. There are much better options in the lower ranks and i don't think they should be discounted because they aren't in the same geography. When most of the conference is situated in two states (Ohio and Michigan) having two or three members that are on the East coast really isn't going to be that much of a travel burden.

I have to ask you that same question but replace "far-eastern school" with ISU.

(02-29-2012 12:52 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  ISU has everything the MAC looks for in a member school. Geography. Academics. Athletics. As long as there is a probable need for an additional MAC member, ISU should be the school of choice.

What athletics do they bring? Football is the bread and butter in college sports and they aren't competitive in the 1-AA ranks. Their basketball hasn't made the tournament since almost as long as us. The MAC needs to add value not just more members for sake of splitting money and bowls more ways.

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Yes, there is concern about media market. But no one mentions the Bloomington Normal media market. It's not a lot, but it's something, and it's captive, with it's own local media. They grow big farm boys and girls in Central Illinois, let's introduce them to MACtion, Chambana be damned.

Central Illinois is U of I territory and always will be. I bet half the population (or more) in Bloomington rather go to a U of I game than an ISU game and that would not change if they joined the MAC.

(02-27-2012 10:32 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Based on these numerous previous examples, and closely watching the current discussions, how in sam hell will bringing in a far-eastern school help the MAC? More than likely, they'd use us and abuse us, take us for a bumpy ride, and then throw us to the side when we've outlived our usefullness as they move to a new eastern based FBS conference.

The midwest is pretty tapped out in terms of potential and population growth. Most of us are in Big Ten country and adding ISU is not going to help grow the MAC brand or add value. There are much better options in the lower ranks and i don't think they should be discounted because they aren't in the same geography. When most of the conference is situated in two states (Ohio and Michigan) having two or three members that are on the East coast really isn't going to be that much of a travel burden.

I have to ask you that same question but replace "far-eastern school" with ISU.

Bravo. +1000. ISU adds nothing substantial and just waters down the split. I wish them all the best, just not in my backyard please.

(02-28-2012 09:15 AM)jons99 Wrote:  But there is a difference, overall the ISU athletic program is better than NIU's.. and while the gap is currently huge in football, ISU seems comitted to getting things improved. ISU might not be a perfect option now because of football, but its a growing school with solid academics that continues to firm up its stance as the #2 public school in the state..

Keep thinking that buddy. I think NIU has a much better program overall that ISU. You are living in the past thinking that your basketball team means anything now. Our latest 2 addtions to our facitlities cost $25m of which not one penny came from the state. Your football grand facility scheme calls for $2m of donated money. Nice support level.