Everyone was feeling so good, following our SBC tournament win and a trip to the NCAA, after a less than mediocre regular season. Best recruiting year ever. WN finally making it to campus. Javes and White highly thought of. Lockhart and Dillard solid players in high shool. Dre and Chucky back for great things.
Tramar set to be the next John Fowler. Marlo back as a fifth year senior.

I think most realized it would take a little while for the chemistry to develop, but who, in their imagination could have predicted we'd get off to this horrible a start. Just one bad game after another. How can we not only lose game after game, but blow substantial leads in many of the games?

Where is the accountability? Does it lie completely with the players?
Coaches? Athletic Director? Or is it a combination of all these factors.
Nobody expected us to be world beaters right off the bat, but a .500 OOC record, or at least close to it, was certainly a reasonable expectation. In view of the past few seasons, which were average at best, with the exception of winning the tournament, maybe a true, impartial evaluation of the program is due. We can't continue using the excuse every year that this recruiting class is great. We're going to be great next year.

It's been obvious to several that some changes need to be made for our program to grow. What those changes are, I don't know, but we can't just keep closing our eyes to the fact that our fan base is not growing, maybe even shrinking, and our program is not even mediocre at this point. If that hurts someone's feeling, so be it. This is not only a sport, it's a business. And if a business is stagnant and not growing, someone is held responsible and changes are made.
It's pretty obvious that expectations are not being met. Don't keep doing the same things expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity.

(12-18-2011 11:17 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  Everyone was feeling so good, following our SBC tournament win and a trip to the NCAA, after a less than mediocre regular season. Best recruiting year ever. WN finally making it to campus. Javes and White highly thought of. Lockhart and Dillard solid players in high shool. Dre and Chucky back for great things.
Tramar set to be the next John Fowler. Marlo back as a fifth year senior.

I think most realized it would take a little while for the chemistry to develop, but who, in their imagination could have predicted we'd get off to this horrible a start. Just one bad game after another. How can we not only lose game after game, but blow substantial leads in many of the games?

Where is the accountability? Does it lie completely with the players?
Coaches? Athletic Director? Or is it a combination of all these factors.
Nobody expected us to be world beaters right off the bat, but a .500 OOC record, or at least close to it, was certainly a reasonable expectation. In view of the past few seasons, which were average at best, with the exception of winning the tournament, maybe a true, impartial evaluation of the program is due. We can't continue using the excuse every year that this recruiting class is great. We're going to be great next year.

It's been obvious to several that some changes need to be made for our program to grow. What those changes are, I don't know, but we can't just keep closing our eyes to the fact that our fan base is not growing, maybe even shrinking, and our program is not even mediocre at this point. If that hurts someone's feeling, so be it. This is not only a sport, it's a business. And if a business is stagnant and not growing, someone is held responsible and changes are made.
It's pretty obvious that expectations are not being met. Don't keep doing the same things expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity.

Nothing "happened". I imagined that we might get off to a horrible start as soon as I saw our OOC schedule. Final accountability is with the UA System president. Next in this order: 1) Chancellor; 2) AD; 3) head coach. Neither the Democrap nor (fortunately) any of us fall anywhere on that list.

Who is able to do "an impartial evaluation of the program"? I guess, someone who doesn't care. There. There's a role for the Democrap. "Impartial" evaluator. Unless you subscribe to the theory that they are actually against us.

Your are right that this is also a business. Unfortunately, that's why so many ghosts attend our games. They pay more money than others. If it didn't have to be a business, we could go back to the days when mjs and I used to beg people to buy $75 season tickets to keep the program alive. We really don't want to go back to when the program was that "successful."

I won't say my expectations haven't been met, but my hopes have not been met.

In all fairness, the schedule has been tough. But we had a Senior point guard coming back who had an oustanding SBC tournament. We had Chucky, who for all practical purposes was a starter his freshman season and showed the potential to be a real star at the two guard, Tramar progressed at the three guard, and was,
and might still be a John Fowler clone. Courtney was a Senior with a lot of experience, and you had WN coming in with great credentials. Plus Marlo, a solid backup, in addition to a solid recruiting class. Now we have a lot of new players, but we had a pretty darn good team, on paper, coming back. So it seemed reasonable that we'd be pretty good early, and possibly great later in the season. And we might still be very good later, but with the experience we had coming back, we can't use the new player excuse. Except it turned out that we ended up starting the new players, which obviously changed the entire dynamic. So here we are. Again sitting at the crossroads. We might win the next ten games in a row (keep Kentucky out of the mix), and that will be great. But when you can't even win your home games against fairly equal competion, that's bad. Losing on the road is one thing. Losing at home is not acceptable in most cases. But we keep trudging along. And the chicken fingers are very good at the games, and you get a lot of them for your money, so all is good and "I'M COMING BACK TO THE JACK" Wednesday night for the Lady Trojans game.

(12-18-2011 01:51 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  In all fairness, the schedule has been tough. But we had a Senior point guard coming back who had an oustanding SBC tournament. We had Chucky, who for all practical purposes was a starter his freshman season and showed the potential to be a real star at the two guard, Tramar progressed at the three guard, and was,
and might still be a John Fowler clone. Courtney was a Senior with a lot of experience, and you had WN coming in with great credentials. Plus Marlo, a solid backup, in addition to a solid recruiting class. Now we have a lot of new players, but we had a pretty darn good team, on paper, coming back. So it seemed reasonable that we'd be pretty good early, and possibly great later in the season. And we might still be very good later, but with the experience we had coming back, we can't use the new player excuse. Except it turned out that we ended up starting the new players, which obviously changed the entire dynamic. So here we are. Again sitting at the crossroads. We might win the next ten games in a row (keep Kentucky out of the mix), and that will be great. But when you can't even win your home games against fairly equal competion, that's bad. Losing on the road is one thing. Losing at home is not acceptable in most cases. But we keep trudging along. And the chicken fingers are very good at the games, and you get a lot of them for your money, so all is good and "I'M COMING BACK TO THE JACK" Wednesday night for the Lady Trojans game.

I think I posted before the season, that I had no real expectations because I had no clue what to expect. You lose your top 3 scores, including the conference Player of the Year, it's going to be hard to hit the ground running. Like LRTrojan, I don't put a whole lot of stock on recruiting rankings, especially at our level, and to be honest none of the recruiting services had us very high. I think us board members were the only ones that believed are class was that great. WN had been highly rated, as a high school senior, and there is no doubt he will be a player for us. The jury is still out on the others.

With regard to being a business, like Jim said, there is no doubt that Chris has turned our program into a "business". Yes, if we sold season tickets for $75 and had promotions, ticket give-aways, and free groceries regularly, like during the Newell days, we would certainly have more butts in the seats. We would also be deep in red ink like we were back then. Selling most of the leather seats to businesses (who unfortunately rarely use them) was the correct business model and necessary for the long-term stability of our program. I wish we could just open the doors, and let everyone in, but that wouldn't pay the bills.

(12-18-2011 02:47 PM)mjs Wrote:  [

With regard to being a business, like Jim said, there is no doubt that Chris has turned our program into a "business". Yes, if we sold season tickets for $75 and had promotions, ticket give-aways, and free groceries regularly, like during the Newell days, we would certainly have more butts in the seats. We would also be deep in red ink like we were back then. Selling most of the leather seats to businesses (who unfortunately rarely use them) was the correct business model and necessary for the long-term stability of our program. I wish we could just open the doors, and let everyone in, but that wouldn't pay the bills.

True about the red ink, the $75 tickets, grocery give aways, and other promotions. Sure they helped bring in more people, but remember Newell was building something from the bottom up. That said, let's talk about the enthusiasm then and now. However they happened to be there, they were not only there in much bigger numbers, but we've never seen the enthusiasm that the fans had since. Not even Derrick Fisher, the great player he was, ever had the love shown players by the fans like Johnnie Bell with the Johnnnieeeee Belllllllllllllllllllllll chant whenever ever he scored. How about Jeff Cummings and the barking like dogs every time he entered the game or scored? That was enthusiasm. The closest thing to that we've had was when Curtis was allowed to do his dance, and he wasn't even a player. Say what you want, but they crowds, and the enthusiasm we had then have never been approached since. That's a fact and you longtime fans know it.

And remember that Mike Newell was the coach, the AD, the ticket seller, and the PR man. He did it all. He didn't have four or five assistant AD's or associate AD's and the forty or fifty man staff that Chris has today. Newell recruited the players, sold the tickets, helped set up court and seats at the Convention Center, and then coached the team. All Shields has to do is coach the team and recruit.

And back in those days, the teams were exciting and they won on a very regular basis, and the fans knew they were going to see an exciting game anytime we played at home, and we most likely were going to win. That's what brings in the fans, and then keeps them coming back. What's wrong with giving away some free tickets from time to time? You'll have more fans cheering our team, you won't lose much if any walk up money, and you'll make a ton at the concession stands. Bill Valentine was very successful doing this for years.

(12-18-2011 03:42 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 02:47 PM)mjs Wrote:  [

With regard to being a business, like Jim said, there is no doubt that Chris has turned our program into a "business". Yes, if we sold season tickets for $75 and had promotions, ticket give-aways, and free groceries regularly, like during the Newell days, we would certainly have more butts in the seats. We would also be deep in red ink like we were back then. Selling most of the leather seats to businesses (who unfortunately rarely use them) was the correct business model and necessary for the long-term stability of our program. I wish we could just open the doors, and let everyone in, but that wouldn't pay the bills.

True about the red ink, the $75 tickets, grocery give aways, and other promotions. Sure they helped bring in more people, but remember Newell was building something from the bottom up. That said, let's talk about the enthusiasm then and now. However they happened to be there, they were not only there in much bigger numbers, but we've never seen the enthusiasm that the fans had since. Not even Derrick Fisher, the great player he was, ever had the love shown players by the fans like Johnnie Bell with the Johnnnieeeee Belllllllllllllllllllllll chant whenever ever he scored. How about Jeff Cummings and the barking like dogs every time he entered the game or scored? That was enthusiasm. The closest thing to that we've had was when Curtis was allowed to do his dance, and he wasn't even a player. Say what you want, but they crowds, and the enthusiasm we had then have never been approached since. That's a fact and you longtime fans know it.

And remember that Mike Newell was the coach, the AD, the ticket seller, and the PR man. He did it all. He didn't have four or five assistant AD's or associate AD's and the forty or fifty man staff that Chris has today. Newell recruited the players, sold the tickets, helped set up court and seats at the Convention Center, and then coached the team. All Shields has to do is coach the team and recruit.

And back in those days, the teams were exciting and they won on a very regular basis, and the fans knew they were going to see an exciting game anytime we played at home, and we most likely were going to win. That's what brings in the fans, and then keeps them coming back. What's wrong with giving away some free tickets from time to time? You'll have more fans cheering our team, you won't lose much if any walk up money, and you'll make a ton at the concession stands. Bill Valentine was very successful doing this for years.

I do remember there were games when the enthusiasm was greater than we are having now when we are 3-9. We won more games . . . and that will cause more enthusiasmin more people . . . regardless of the teams we are beating. There are many fans that are more enthusiastic beating Hardin-Simmons like a drum every time than losing close ones to SMU and Missouri State. To each his own. Not me. I want the tougher competition and would HATE going back to the previous scheduling, even if it meant more enthusiasm in the masses. As to every home game being exciting in the old days, I can only assume that was hyperbole to make a point. For your average non-basketball-junkies in our midst, there were plenty of nights that the puny crowds and beating pitiful competition left something to be desired on the excitement scale.

I would have no problem with giving away a few tickets as prizes. I just think that to compare the size of crowds receiving giveaways and the size of crowds paying real money to get in is not a really valid comparison.

(12-18-2011 04:46 PM)Jim Tripcony Wrote:  I do remember there were games when the enthusiasm was greater than we are having now when we are 3-9. We won more games . . . and that will cause more enthusiasmin more people . . . regardless of the teams we are beating. There are many fans that are more enthusiastic beating Hardin-Simmons like a drum every time than losing close ones to SMU and Missouri State. To each his own. Not me. I want the tougher competition and would HATE going back to the previous scheduling, even if it meant more enthusiasm in the masses. As to every home game being exciting in the old days, I can only assume that was hyperbole to make a point. For your average non-basketball-junkies in our midst, there were plenty of nights that the puny crowds and beating pitiful competition left something to be desired on the excitement scale.
I would have no problem with giving away a few tickets as prizes. I just think that to compare the size of crowds receiving giveaways and the size of crowds paying real money to get in is not a really valid comparison.

It's not just because we're 3-9 that the enthusiasm is down. There hasn't been much enthusiasm in this program in years. It hasn't been worth a **** since we moved to the Jack. Sure there have been some exciting games over the years. The only problem is that there aren't very many people there to get excited. But, there have been a lot of dull grinder games too. I like the better competition also, but the enthusiasm was much better when you are a winner.

I don't seem to remember all of the "plenty of nights that the puny crowds and beating pitiful competition". I remember we beat some "pitiful" competition some, just as we do now. I don't remember lots of "puny" crowds in those days. "Puny" crowds are what Steve Shields coached teams draw. Sure the Sun Belt is a better league than the TAAC was overall. I stayed with Steve for about five or six years. His teams go up and down like a yo-yo, depending on the type of recruits he can bring in and the caliber of the rest of the Sun Belt.

I didn't expect any of Shields' fan club to agree with my post. But you can't truthfully say that I didn't state the facts. Anyone who is truly pleased and satisfied with the present state of this program, the pitiful crowds, and this coach, it's pretty obvious that it doesn't take much to please them.

And no hyperbole or any other bull****. Most all home games were exciting to me, and they must have been for most all those other folks who have dropped by the wayside since then.

(12-18-2011 04:46 PM)Jim Tripcony Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 03:42 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 02:47 PM)mjs Wrote:  [

With regard to being a business, like Jim said, there is no doubt that Chris has turned our program into a "business". Yes, if we sold season tickets for $75 and had promotions, ticket give-aways, and free groceries regularly, like during the Newell days, we would certainly have more butts in the seats. We would also be deep in red ink like we were back then. Selling most of the leather seats to businesses (who unfortunately rarely use them) was the correct business model and necessary for the long-term stability of our program. I wish we could just open the doors, and let everyone in, but that wouldn't pay the bills.

True about the red ink, the $75 tickets, grocery give aways, and other promotions. Sure they helped bring in more people, but remember Newell was building something from the bottom up. That said, let's talk about the enthusiasm then and now. However they happened to be there, they were not only there in much bigger numbers, but we've never seen the enthusiasm that the fans had since. Not even Derrick Fisher, the great player he was, ever had the love shown players by the fans like Johnnie Bell with the Johnnnieeeee Belllllllllllllllllllllll chant whenever ever he scored. How about Jeff Cummings and the barking like dogs every time he entered the game or scored? That was enthusiasm. The closest thing to that we've had was when Curtis was allowed to do his dance, and he wasn't even a player. Say what you want, but they crowds, and the enthusiasm we had then have never been approached since. That's a fact and you longtime fans know it.

And remember that Mike Newell was the coach, the AD, the ticket seller, and the PR man. He did it all. He didn't have four or five assistant AD's or associate AD's and the forty or fifty man staff that Chris has today. Newell recruited the players, sold the tickets, helped set up court and seats at the Convention Center, and then coached the team. All Shields has to do is coach the team and recruit.

And back in those days, the teams were exciting and they won on a very regular basis, and the fans knew they were going to see an exciting game anytime we played at home, and we most likely were going to win. That's what brings in the fans, and then keeps them coming back. What's wrong with giving away some free tickets from time to time? You'll have more fans cheering our team, you won't lose much if any walk up money, and you'll make a ton at the concession stands. Bill Valentine was very successful doing this for years.

I do remember there were games when the enthusiasm was greater than we are having now when we are 3-9. We won more games . . . and that will cause more enthusiasmin more people . . . regardless of the teams we are beating. There are many fans that are more enthusiastic beating Hardin-Simmons like a drum every time than losing close ones to SMU and Missouri State. To each his own. Not me. I want the tougher competition and would HATE going back to the previous scheduling, even if it meant more enthusiasm in the masses. As to every home game being exciting in the old days, I can only assume that was hyperbole to make a point. For your average non-basketball-junkies in our midst, there were plenty of nights that the puny crowds and beating pitiful competition left something to be desired on the excitement scale.

I would have no problem with giving away a few tickets as prizes. I just think that to compare the size of crowds receiving giveaways and the size of crowds paying real money to get in is not a really valid comparison.

I certainly give credit to Newell for some of the excitement generated and we certainly had some nice crowds on occasion. But I've noticed a strange phenomenon in Little Rock and other southern cities with regard to "secondary" sports teams. When something is "new", fans initially turn out and then inevitably it goes down. UALR had been DI for a few years, when Newell got here, but had no budget and most folks barely new they existed. So when Newell took over he eventually made UALR the new and exciting thing to do in Little Rock. Could that have continued? Maybe, maybe not.
When the Twisters started here they averaged some incredible amount- somthing like 14,000 a game. It gradually declined to where they started curtaining off the upper deck and eventually they were drawing 2 to 3000 or less. For several years, the Louisiana Ice Gators were drawing sellout crowds of 11,000 in Lafayette. It slowly declined and they actually folded 3 years ago (they are now back in a lower level league and averaging 2,000 a game). What changed with the Twisters or Ice Gators? I don't have an answer and I'm sure their owners don't either. Maybe the term MichaelsPappy coined "spectators" as opposed to fans fits. Our program and those teams at times had a lot more spectators, but none really ever built a large base of hardcore fans. Due to the culture in this State, I don't if we'll ever build a large base of true fans. Yes, we may draw more when we are winning or have a flamboyant coach, but those folks will likely be gone when the losing starts or the coach changes.

(12-18-2011 06:48 PM)mjs Wrote:  I certainly give credit to Newell for some of the excitement generated and we certainly had some nice crowds on occasion. So when Newell took over he eventually made UALR the new and exciting thing to do in Little Rock. Could that have continued? Maybe, maybe not.
Yes, we may draw more when we are winning or have a flamboyant coach, but those folks will likely be gone when the losing starts or the coach changes.

If you aren't going to give Newell the credit, who the **** are you going to give it to?

And we only had "nice" crowds on occasion huh? After Newell's first year, I don't ever remember a crowd as piss poor as the crowds we've drawn this year, and that's after winning the tournament. I don't give a damn if cheap tickets or cheap whores drew them to the games. They were there and they were enthusiastic. They aren't there now and the ones that are, aren't very enthusiastic.

Could Newell have kept up the winning? Who knows, but after winning 17 his first year, he won twenty or more each year he was the coach. He didn't even flirt with a losing season. If he'd stayed long enough, he very likely would have had a down year sometime. I'll bet that had he stayed, we wouldn't be drawing these puny 1,200 or 1,500 a game, that is before that tack another thousand on the count.

And the part about having a flamboyant coach and drawing good crowds, and then they drop off when he starts losing. Well, if you're gonna give Newell credit for anything, it would have to be that he was flamboyant. As far as the crowds dropping off when the coach started losing. Well, again we'll never know. Newell never came close to losing here.

(12-18-2011 09:38 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:48 PM)mjs Wrote:  I certainly give credit to Newell for some of the excitement generated and we certainly had some nice crowds on occasion. So when Newell took over he eventually made UALR the new and exciting thing to do in Little Rock. Could that have continued? Maybe, maybe not.
Yes, we may draw more when we are winning or have a flamboyant coach, but those folks will likely be gone when the losing starts or the coach changes.

If you aren't going to give Newell the credit, who the **** are you going to give it to?

And we only had "nice" crowds on occasion huh? After Newell's first year, I don't ever remember a crowd as piss poor as the crowds we've drawn this year, and that's after winning the tournament. I don't give a damn if cheap tickets or cheap whores drew them to the games. They were there and they were enthusiastic. They aren't there now and the ones that are, aren't very enthusiastic.

Could Newell have kept up the winning? Who knows, but after winning 17 his first year, he won twenty or more each year he was the coach. He didn't even flirt with a losing season. If he'd stayed long enough, he very likely would have had a down year sometime. I'll bet that had he stayed, we wouldn't be drawing these puny 1,200 or 1,500 a game, that is before that tack another thousand on the count.

And the part about having a flamboyant coach and drawing good crowds, and then they drop off when he starts losing. Well, if you're gonna give Newell credit for anything, it would have to be that he was flamboyant. As far as the crowds dropping off when the coach started losing. Well, again we'll never know. Newell never came close to losing here.

LRTrojan- I can't find any fault in your points about Newell. Why some don't want to give him his due is beyond me. And I also agree that things have gotten pretty flat as far as enthusiasm in our program. And having a regular season like we did last year, and what appears to probably be an even worse season this year, certainly isn't going to get what little fan base we have fired up. Much less attract any new fans. I am not satisfied with the program in its present state, and frankly, I'm surprised by some of the long time guys who seem to be.

(12-18-2011 10:42 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:38 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:48 PM)mjs Wrote:  I certainly give credit to Newell for some of the excitement generated and we certainly had some nice crowds on occasion. So when Newell took over he eventually made UALR the new and exciting thing to do in Little Rock. Could that have continued? Maybe, maybe not.
Yes, we may draw more when we are winning or have a flamboyant coach, but those folks will likely be gone when the losing starts or the coach changes.

If you aren't going to give Newell the credit, who the **** are you going to give it to?

And we only had "nice" crowds on occasion huh? After Newell's first year, I don't ever remember a crowd as piss poor as the crowds we've drawn this year, and that's after winning the tournament. I don't give a damn if cheap tickets or cheap whores drew them to the games. They were there and they were enthusiastic. They aren't there now and the ones that are, aren't very enthusiastic.

Could Newell have kept up the winning? Who knows, but after winning 17 his first year, he won twenty or more each year he was the coach. He didn't even flirt with a losing season. If he'd stayed long enough, he very likely would have had a down year sometime. I'll bet that had he stayed, we wouldn't be drawing these puny 1,200 or 1,500 a game, that is before that tack another thousand on the count.

And the part about having a flamboyant coach and drawing good crowds, and then they drop off when he starts losing. Well, if you're gonna give Newell credit for anything, it would have to be that he was flamboyant. As far as the crowds dropping off when the coach started losing. Well, again we'll never know. Newell never came close to losing here.

LRTrojan- I can't find any fault in your points about Newell. Why some don't want to give him his due is beyond me. And I also agree that things have gotten pretty flat as far as enthusiasm in our program. And having a regular season like we did last year, and what appears to probably be an even worse season this year, certainly isn't going to get what little fan base we have fired up. Much less attract any new fans. I am not satisfied with the program in its present state, and frankly, I'm surprised by some of the long time guys who seem to be.

Yes, Newell occasionally drew nice crowds. We actually sold out the State House Convention Center a few times. We would list the attendance as 5200. No way that place sat more than 2500. If you remember there were risers about 10 rows up on each side and bleachers in the end zones. It did not seat as much as the lower bowl at Stephens. I was involved in the program back then and Newell was frequently disgusted with the attendance. When we moved to Barton he wanted to curtain off both ends of the arena so it wouldn't look so empty. He reduced tickets to $3 dollars in the corners and $2 in the endzones. Tickets were often given away by businesses and promotions by Affiliated Foods were plentiful. As Jim said we had to beg and plead with friends, family, etc. to buy season tickets for $75 so the program wouldn't shut down. I won't disagree that attendance was better and enthusiasm higher, but a lot of folks have selective memory about how "great" attendance and support was back then.

(12-19-2011 12:23 AM)mjs Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 10:42 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:38 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:48 PM)mjs Wrote:  I certainly give credit to Newell for some of the excitement generated and we certainly had some nice crowds on occasion. So when Newell took over he eventually made UALR the new and exciting thing to do in Little Rock. Could that have continued? Maybe, maybe not.
Yes, we may draw more when we are winning or have a flamboyant coach, but those folks will likely be gone when the losing starts or the coach changes.

If you aren't going to give Newell the credit, who the **** are you going to give it to?

And we only had "nice" crowds on occasion huh? After Newell's first year, I don't ever remember a crowd as piss poor as the crowds we've drawn this year, and that's after winning the tournament. I don't give a damn if cheap tickets or cheap whores drew them to the games. They were there and they were enthusiastic. They aren't there now and the ones that are, aren't very enthusiastic.

Could Newell have kept up the winning? Who knows, but after winning 17 his first year, he won twenty or more each year he was the coach. He didn't even flirt with a losing season. If he'd stayed long enough, he very likely would have had a down year sometime. I'll bet that had he stayed, we wouldn't be drawing these puny 1,200 or 1,500 a game, that is before that tack another thousand on the count.

And the part about having a flamboyant coach and drawing good crowds, and then they drop off when he starts losing. Well, if you're gonna give Newell credit for anything, it would have to be that he was flamboyant. As far as the crowds dropping off when the coach started losing. Well, again we'll never know. Newell never came close to losing here.

LRTrojan- I can't find any fault in your points about Newell. Why some don't want to give him his due is beyond me. And I also agree that things have gotten pretty flat as far as enthusiasm in our program. And having a regular season like we did last year, and what appears to probably be an even worse season this year, certainly isn't going to get what little fan base we have fired up. Much less attract any new fans. I am not satisfied with the program in its present state, and frankly, I'm surprised by some of the long time guys who seem to be.

Yes, Newell occasionally drew nice crowds. We actually sold out the State House Convention Center a few times. We would list the attendance as 5200. No way that place sat more than 2500. If you remember there were risers about 10 rows up on each side and bleachers in the end zones. It did not seat as much as the lower bowl at Stephens. I was involved in the program back then and Newell was frequently disgusted with the attendance. When we moved to Barton he wanted to curtain off both ends of the arena so it wouldn't look so empty. He reduced tickets to $3 dollars in the corners and $2 in the endzones. Tickets were often given away by businesses and promotions by Affiliated Foods were plentiful. As Jim said we had to beg and plead with friends, family, etc. to buy season tickets for $75 so the program wouldn't shut down. I won't disagree that attendance was better and enthusiasm higher, but a lot of folks have selective memory about how "great" attendance and support was back then.

I know several things for sure:

1) Enthusiasm for the program was at an all time high under Newell. And this was without the facilities the program has now.
2) No matter what it cost (or didn't cost) the attendees back then, they at least showed up. Not only at the Convention Center, but also at Barton, in greater numbers than they do today.
3) Support was certainly greater from an interest standpoint, if maybe not from a financial standpoint.
4) UALR basketball had some relevance to the community. Now it has next to none.
5) While we now have a beautiful on campus arena that was a dream to so many of us those years ago, the pizzazz has seemed to have gone. Instead we have Seat Police making sure the seats stay empty and pristine for people that never show to sit in them.
6) Lately, we just don't win very much.

This crap is depressing. Last night, I just did not totally expect us to win, even with the double digit lead. Honestly it did not surprise me one bit that Tech took advantage of our weakness. Now, that is when you reach the tipping point and know it's going down the tubes. In all of my years as a fan, I can hardly think of a time when I felt this bad about the team and the program. Sure there were some really awful years since 1994 such as Wimp's final season, Moncrief, and the season before last. But the difference this time is there seems to be no iron-clad excuse to mitigate the frustration. This year, we had all this hype and enthusiasm and no real culprit to point at. I can't say I ever felt this bad as a fan in 17 years. I could chalk some of it up to cumulative letdowns over the years. However, this time there is no excuse for what we are experiencing.

(12-19-2011 12:23 AM)mjs Wrote:  Yes, Newell occasionally drew nice crowds. We actually sold out the State House Convention Center a few times. We would list the attendance as 5200. No way that place sat more than 2500. If you remember there were risers about 10 rows up on each side and bleachers in the end zones. It did not seat as much as the lower bowl at Stephens. I was involved in the program back then and Newell was frequently disgusted with the attendance. When we moved to Barton he wanted to curtain off both ends of the arena so it wouldn't look so empty. He reduced tickets to $3 dollars in the corners and $2 in the endzones. Tickets were often given away by businesses and promotions by Affiliated Foods were plentiful. As Jim said we had to beg and plead with friends, family, etc. to buy season tickets for $75 so the program wouldn't shut down. I won't disagree that attendance was better and enthusiasm higher, but a lot of folks have selective memory about how "great" attendance and support was back then.

"Newell occasionally drew nice crowds." I don't ever remember going to a game after his first year where we had as few fans there as we have this season.

And some here have "selective memory" about Mike Newell period, especially if it means giving him any credit for anything. Mickey you were willing to give Newell "some of the credit" for what he accomplished here, but you never did say who got the rest of the credit. I swear, I just wonder what Newell did to some of you guys, to cause so much hate for the man. I've got a sneaking suspicion that some here who despise him so much, may have been part of the problem why it took forever for him to be put in the Hall of Fame.

All you've got to do on this board to get some of these folks furr up, is to mention Newell in a positive way. I still wonder what this guy did to some of you guys. Beats me.

I have heard some of the reasons. I'm sure MJS and Mr. Mediocrity could give you their take on it sometime off the main board.

(12-19-2011 11:09 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  I have heard some of the reasons. I'm sure MJS and Mr. Mediocrity could give you their take on it sometime off the main board.

Mike never did anything to me. He was always extremely nice to me, my wife, and young son. I remember he spent about an hour at the bar at the hotel in Shreveport talking to my wife and I, after a particularly tough loss to Centenary. He was friendly to my son and remembered his name. I loved his enthusiasm and his sense of humor. While attendance was certainly better back then, there were many times that it was embarrassingly poor. Back then I really worried about attendance because the survival of our program depended on it. I think it is human nature to focus on the good things about the past. Most seem to have forgotten how big a fight it was to get folks out to games even during the Newell era. It took a lot of us begging folks to buy season tickets to help the program survive. I'm not a good salesman and hate to ask folks for money, but I believe I sold 42 season tickets that year. Of course, I think Dr. J is the only one left on board.

One other thing we did not have to fight years ago was the vast array of sports entertainment available on cable/satellite.

(12-19-2011 01:08 PM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  One other thing we did not have to fight years ago was the vast array of sports entertainment available on cable/satellite.

I've made that argument before. Things are simply different than they were back then. 3 or 4 channels on TV. Now we have hundreds. Very little basketball on TV (even a lot of hog games were tape delayed). Now you can watch several games, involving the best teams in the country, every night. VHS was just beginning. Now you can get movies for a buck at Redbox or streamed to your home for 7.99 for an entire month. Video games were in their infancy. Now kids and young adults (at least at my house) are addicted to them. In a bad economy, it's a lot more economical to rent a movie for a buck, then take the family to a game no matter how cheap the tickets might be.

(12-19-2011 01:03 PM)mjs Wrote:  Mike never did anything to me. He was always extremely nice to me, my wife, and young son. I remember he spent about an hour at the bar at the hotel in Shreveport talking to my wife and I, after a particularly tough loss to Centenary. He was friendly to my son and remembered his name. I loved his enthusiasm and his sense of humor. While attendance was certainly better back then, there were many times that it was embarrassingly poor. Back then I really worried about attendance because the survival of our program depended on it. I think it is human nature to focus on the good things about the past. Most seem to have forgotten how big a fight it was to get folks out to games even during the Newell era. It took a lot of us begging folks to buy season tickets to help the program survive. I'm not a good salesman and hate to ask folks for money, but I believe I sold 42 season tickets that year. Of course, I think Dr. J is the only one left on board.

That's not a bad percentage, 41 smart people out of 42. Wish we could shoot free throws like that.

The thing about those $75 season tickets as compared to today's season tickets is, the $75 folks showed up and most ticket buyers today don't. Why, I really don't know for sure, but I think that part of it is, we don't win like we did then, and the teams aren't as exciting, and neither is the coach.

(12-19-2011 02:22 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-19-2011 01:03 PM)mjs Wrote:  Mike never did anything to me. He was always extremely nice to me, my wife, and young son. I remember he spent about an hour at the bar at the hotel in Shreveport talking to my wife and I, after a particularly tough loss to Centenary. He was friendly to my son and remembered his name. I loved his enthusiasm and his sense of humor. While attendance was certainly better back then, there were many times that it was embarrassingly poor. Back then I really worried about attendance because the survival of our program depended on it. I think it is human nature to focus on the good things about the past. Most seem to have forgotten how big a fight it was to get folks out to games even during the Newell era. It took a lot of us begging folks to buy season tickets to help the program survive. I'm not a good salesman and hate to ask folks for money, but I believe I sold 42 season tickets that year. Of course, I think Dr. J is the only one left on board.

That's not a bad percentage, 41 smart people out of 42. Wish we could shoot free throws like that.

The thing about those $75 season tickets as compared to today's season tickets is, the $75 folks showed up and most ticket buyers today don't. Why, I really don't know for sure, but I think that part of it is, we don't win like we did then, and the teams aren't as exciting, and neither is the coach.

I also tend to believe the folks who bought tickets from me (and others) felt like if they spent the money they were going to use the tickets. Most of the prime ticket holders today seem to be just using it as a tax write-off or a way to say "I support the local team".