The alarm must have just gone off. Time for the Next Round

(11-25-2011 01:54 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:33 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  He has been worthless from his first post here. He is the non-football version of miko....stop replying to him and he'll go away. You will never have a logical discussion with him. He is full of hatred and that is all he can post about.

Why do so many people hate on miko?

None of his posts seem bad to me, most of them are hilarious.

THIS.

Miko's posts are very funny. No need to hate on him.

(11-24-2011 11:04 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original point, stop trying to pull the wool over your new conference mates eyes by acting like you have any relevence in the New York market. The only market you'll deliver will be Syracuse, New York, and that will barely manage a blip on any national ratings measure. And if the Big East implodes, and we're forced to adopt an ACC team, the majority of us will go with BC or Maryland, which are both much closer and a more reasonable cultural fit. Syracuse is like a foreign country to us.

It doesn't matter if Syracuse can't even bring the Syracuse market, let alone NYC market.

Syracuse was invited to join the ACC...(along with Pitt) while other Big East Teams were not.

Get over it.

Since this guy still only has one post. It seems to be an alternate account, created just too stir up trouble.

(11-25-2011 08:22 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  It doesn't matter if Syracuse can't even bring the Syracuse market, let alone NYC market.

Syracuse was invited to join the ACC...(along with Pitt) while other Big East Teams were not.

Get over it.

This is my take as well. It's over, guys. Pitt and Syarcuse are gone forever so please just let it go. Both the Big East and ACC have been outstanding men's basketball conferences and I'm soure that will continue to be the case going forward. Please quit having this embarrassing girl fight - it doesn't flatter either side.

(11-25-2011 01:54 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Yes guys I do see what you mean. But I already checked on his argument about final four appearances so I'll post what I found out.

Big East appearances in the final four 17.

ACC appearances in the final four 39.

Teams from the BE that I didn't see listed as being in the final four included ND, USF, Marquette, Cincy, Louisville, Pitt?, and several more I think, but I didn't write them down. I think Redman must have been including accomplishments of teams that were independents or in other conferences when they went to the final four.

ACC teams that have been to the final four but haven't ever won a championship were UVA, Wake, and GT.

Also until around 1979 only the conference champion was allowed into the tourney. Soon after the BE was formed so they have had the benefit of having the chance to place multiple teams in the tourney since the began.

One has to wonder how different things might have worked out had Lefties' Terps of the 70s had gotten in, or any number of other teams in the ACC that lost in the conference tourney and got no chance to go to the big dance.

I have to point out one * to using NCAA tournament appearances as a measuring stick of success. The NCAA was not always the premier post season basketball tournament. At one time it was the NIT. So you might want to look at those numbers as well.

Okay Redman- lets compare apples to apples. The BE was formed in 1979 so how do the two conferences compare over that time span.

National Campionships: ACC 10, BE 6
Final Four Appearances: ACC 29, BE 17
Multiple Teams in the final four: (Big Ten 6), ACC 5, BE 3
Three Teams in the final four: ACC 0, BE 1
ACC Teams that won a NC: 4 (Duke, UNC, NC State, Maryland)
BE Teams that won a NC: 4 (UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Nova)
ACC teams that appeared in the final four: 6 (UNC, Duke, NC State, Virginia, Maryland, Georgia Tech)
BE teams that appeared in the final four: 8 (Georgetown, UConn, Syracuse, Providence, Seton Hall, Nova, St. Johns, West Virginia)

So lets see,
ACC = more national championships, more final four appearances, more multiple team appearances in the final four
BE= number of different teams in final four, three teams in final four

I'm not looking to stir up trouble Orange, just trying to get you to take the blinders off and recognize that Syracuse delivers none of the NYC market despite the pathetic claims of people like you. ( the Statue of Liberty on your website? Give me a break). As far as which conference is the best in bball over the past 30 years it would be the ACC, but over the past 5 it's definitely the Big East. The ACC today is two good teams and 10 bottom feeders. Using your logic I guess we should annoint the Horizon League the new king of hoops since Butler is the only team to make the finals the past two years. That Wisconsin/Green Bay vs Wright State game should be a real barnburner this year. And as far as football goes, the reality is the Big east will likely be a stronger football conference than before with the additions that are likely coming, while the ACC will be significantly weaker with the addition of Syracuse and the national apathy that comes with them. And as far as the ACC tournament in NYC? Don't think so cowboy, Enjoy your stay in Greensborough ( or however you spell it)

(11-25-2011 09:13 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 08:22 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  It doesn't matter if Syracuse can't even bring the Syracuse market, let alone NYC market.

Syracuse was invited to join the ACC...(along with Pitt) while other Big East Teams were not.

Get over it.

This is my take as well. It's over, guys. Pitt and Syarcuse are gone forever so please just let it go. Both the Big East and ACC have been outstanding men's basketball conferences and I'm soure that will continue to be the case going forward. Please quit having this embarrassing girl fight - it doesn't flatter either side.

Doc, I just find it a fun and interesting debate, I've tried to be respectful in advocating my position.

(11-25-2011 02:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:33 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:17 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:04 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Redman- in the grand scheme of things what percentage of New Yorkers even know what the Big East is, much less pay attention to college basketball? With all due respect, my guess is not many. Also, National Championships, ACC 12, BE 6. And are you sure every BE team but USF has been in the final four since they have been in the BE? Please give me the teams and years for that. If so that is very impressive.

Once again the Big East is only 30 years old and we have half as many titles as a league who is more than twice as old as us. The percentage of 9 million people? Yes, im sure the immigrants don't know what the Big East is but every guy who watches sports center knows who the Big east is. You are an idiot, the Big East has a very strong following in NYC. The city is flanked by a half dozen member schools.

It's disturbing to realize that you can't carry on a lively debate without calling me a name. I would make some snide remark about that being explained by the fact that you are from NYC but I have had the opportunity to visit your city and found the people I encountered there to be very nice. Please try to keep things civil.

He has been worthless from his first post here. He is the non-football version of miko....stop replying to him and he'll go away. You will never have a logical discussion with him. He is full of hatred and that is all he can post about.

Im sure every person who roots for a college football team went to that school right? No one from a small school or ivy league is allowed to talk about college football. Only big state schoolers are allowed on here! I post facts and logical opinions, no wonder why you guys dont like me. Common sense isnt big in the rural areas.

Try one time to post something positive about a school or program without an agenda of belittling someone else. You have been too consumed by hatred.

(11-24-2011 11:31 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I would have to disagree with the assertion that the Big East is the best conference in college basketball. While top to bottom the ACC has certainly been top heavy the last few years and the Big East has been much stronger top to bottom, historically speaking the ACC is by far the best conference in college basketball. And NYC is so big and diverse I don't think any one school could ever hope to "deliver" the tv market there.

Historically the ACC has always been a top heavy conference. Occasionally an NCState, or a UVA, or a GA Tech, or a Maryland rises up briefly but then is smacked back down where they belong. It's always about North Carolina & Duke with no other serious challengers.

(11-24-2011 11:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(11-24-2011 11:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-24-2011 11:31 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I would have to disagree with the assertion that the Big East is the best conference in college basketball. While top to bottom the ACC has certainly been top heavy the last few years and the Big East has been much stronger top to bottom, historically speaking the ACC is by far the best conference in college basketball. And NYC is so big and diverse I don't think any one school could ever hope to "deliver" the tv market there.

Uh the Big East has been better than the ACC for a very long time. The ACC is much older than the Big East but they never had the depth we have and had. 3 teams in the final four will never be replicated by the ACC or any other conference.

We'll have to disagree on that one I guess. There are how many NCAA championships won by ACC teams? Chapel Hill (5), Duke (4), State (2), Maryland (1)? Wake Forest has had a number of outstanding teams as has UVA and GT. How many have UConn (3?), Syracuse (1), Georgetown (1), and Nova (1) won? It looks to me like the ACC has won about twice as many. And of course two of your best teams are leaving. Also the fact that the ACC is much older means that the strength of their progams can better be put in perspective. We are the conference that beat Wilt Chamberlain in the 50s, ended the domination of UCLA in the 70s, and won mulitiple titles in the the 80s,90s and 2000s. Don't get me wrong the Big East has been the better conference in the last few years but the last few years is just that. Lets see how you are doing 10, 20. 30 years from now.

While I understand that the Big East has only been around for 33 years, Big East teams have been competing for over 100 years & have traditions as old as the ACC's & longer. To ignore championships won by Cincinnati (2), Louisville (2), & Marquette (1) is to ignore the traditions that these schools bring with them to the Big East.

If you want to back to UNC beating Wilt, then let's go back to the 4 NIT championships won by St. John's (1943-65), or the DePaul NIT, or the Seton Hall NIT when those championships were often regarded as equal to or superior to the NCAA.

The Big East has its own traditions that give it a unique tapestry every bit as revered as that of the ACC. And frankly its history of championships at St. John's (1), Syracuse (2), Pitt (2), & Notre Dame (1) that go back almost a century into the pre-tournament era is something that the ACC can't match with the exception of a singleton at North Carolina.

Of course, it goes without saying that the ACC will be importing some of this history when they bring in Syracuse & Pitt.

BTW, what's with the "?" nest to UConn's 3 championships? Those are unquestioned fact.

(11-25-2011 12:21 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(11-24-2011 11:10 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I couldn't have said it better myself although I've tried. The notion that Syracuse commands some kind of presence in NYC is ridiculous, absurd.

What will be interesting is to see how the loss of games in NYC & its vicinity affects Syracuse's recruiting in the City.

Our recruiting won't skip a beat. We're a national power house. We can recruit anyone. Besides the ACC tourney will one day be in the Garden, and Syracuse will schedule an OOC game in NYC like Duke does every year.

It's absurd that UConn fans think they have a presence in NYC.

Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Notre Dame, and Penn State all have decent followings in NYC. Syracuse markets itself as "New York's College Team", not "New York Cities College Team". You people are f@cking retarded.

Is that the best you can come up with? That's a shame.

1. I never claimed a NY presence for UConn.
2. The issue isn't whether anyone claims a "following in NY." As you say, let's of schools do.
3. Syracuse has delusions of grandeur when it markets itself as "NY's college team." It's not. It's a medium sized private school, squirreled away in the wasteland of Central NY. A state flagship is really the only one who can claim to be the state school. That's the whole point of this thread. Syracuse bills itself as something to which it has no claim.
4. Your statements about an ACC tournament in MSG & SU OOC games in NYC are utter nonsense. You have no idea whether either of these wet dreams will ever materialize. The SU OOC games are particularly dubious since it doesn't serve any purpose or self-interest for a NYC school like St. John's to schedule them. Besides, does SU ever play any OOC games outside the Carrier Dome? LOL. They pad the schedule with one cupcake after another on their home court.

With regard to my point about Syracuse's recruiting, I was talking specifically about their continuing ability to recruit NYC as successfully as they have in the past. I'm not saying they won't be able to. I'm simply saying that it's an open question & that it will be interesting to see if that success continues in the future.

I can't see counting the past accomplishments of individual teams that are now in the BE. We could also go back to the old Southern Conference and the Dixie Classic for many of the ACC teams but that wasn't the ACC. We are talking about the best basketball conference. Of course it is all debatable. I think looking at the ACC and the BE historically since the formation of the BE is a apples to apples and I would argue that the ACC wins out in that comparison.

Duke and UNC haven't always dominated the conference. Early on NC State was the best team and was right up there in the 70s. Duke had good teams in the 60s, 90s and 00s, but not so much in the 70s and 80s. Maryland was a great team in the 70s and had two final fours in the 00s. GT was strong in the Cremins era and had a final four a few years ago. WF would take exception with the assertion that they aren't historically relavent. And South Carolina was a very competitive team in the conference before they left for the SEC.

(11-25-2011 11:44 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  4. The SU OOC games are particularly dubious since it doesn't serve any purpose or self-interest for a NYC school like St. John's to schedule them.

Duke played Michigan State, and will play Washington in MSG this year. We don't need to play St. Johns to play there.

Syracuse can easily do the same.

(11-24-2011 11:08 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

(11-24-2011 11:07 PM)War Torn Ruston Wrote:  miko? is this you?

it's not Miko-the post is coherent

:youmoron:

(11-24-2011 11:10 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I couldn't have said it better myself although I've tried. The notion that Syracuse commands some kind of presence in NYC is ridiculous, absurd.

What will be interesting is to see how the loss of games in NYC & its vicinity affects Syracuse's recruiting in the City.

we will still play plenty of games in nyc (football-have games scheduled at metlife stadium for a while,basketball we will play non conference games in nyc area like preseason nit,coaches vs cancer, jimmy v classic and eventually the acc tournament will add nyc to its rotating venues to be there 1 out of every 4 or 5 years) i disagree that syracuse brings nothing to the nyc market, they do command there share of the nyc market when talking basketball,football they get a small presence with there sny deal.

(11-25-2011 10:31 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 02:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:33 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:17 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 01:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Once again the Big East is only 30 years old and we have half as many titles as a league who is more than twice as old as us. The percentage of 9 million people? Yes, im sure the immigrants don't know what the Big East is but every guy who watches sports center knows who the Big east is. You are an idiot, the Big East has a very strong following in NYC. The city is flanked by a half dozen member schools.

It's disturbing to realize that you can't carry on a lively debate without calling me a name. I would make some snide remark about that being explained by the fact that you are from NYC but I have had the opportunity to visit your city and found the people I encountered there to be very nice. Please try to keep things civil.

He has been worthless from his first post here. He is the non-football version of miko....stop replying to him and he'll go away. You will never have a logical discussion with him. He is full of hatred and that is all he can post about.

Im sure every person who roots for a college football team went to that school right? No one from a small school or ivy league is allowed to talk about college football. Only big state schoolers are allowed on here! I post facts and logical opinions, no wonder why you guys dont like me. Common sense isnt big in the rural areas.

Try one time to post something positive about a school or program without an agenda of belittling someone else. You have been too consumed by hatred.

So you've seen everyone of my posts? I belittle those i do not respect and im sorry i do not respect ACC trolls...or the ACC in general.

(11-25-2011 12:38 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(11-25-2011 12:28 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  The ACC tourny wont be in the Garden because they cant even sell out in NC. Why would anyone think they could sell out hundreds of miles away from the center of the conference.

If you think you will not miss a beat no longer playing in your recruiting grounds means you're retarded. Also New York City is in New York so it's saying the same thing dipchit.

First off we hardly recruit NYC. Only one player that gets playing time is from NYC, and he doesn't start.

Players with significant playing time are from.

Boston
Philadelphia
Baltimore
Montreal
Senegal
Jamesville

We recruit up and down the east coast. .

The ACC tourney will one day be in the Garden, no matter how much you scoff at it.

im not sure if it will be in msg,could see them playing it in brooklyn or newark though

It seems to me that this entire thread is fueled by jealously over Syracuse's move to the ACC. I think Cuse fans have "gotten real". We're gone and glad to be going. It's the jealous leftovers and have-nots that need to "get real", get over it and move on.