BYU in the Big East helps stabilize the west too from Boise's perspective. Having a rival in conference that is so close fans can drive to the games would be pretty awesome.

Boise already has a 12 years series with BYU. But what we've heard from BYU fans this year is that they are disappointed there is no conference race to watch. Once they lose that first game, they know they aren't going to a BCS Bowl/NCG. So there is nothing left, in this crazy world of college football where I watch UCF play now, not because they are my current conference mate by might be future conference mate. BYU fans get none of this now. However, I can't imagine after one year that perspective is loud enough to matter.

I don't think the BYU decision will come anytime soon. Boise would probably want to keep pushing for BYU until they say "no" or for the conditions that BYU requires to be declared insurmountable, before moving on to other possible western schools, or giving up and allowing another eastern school.

They definitely should be target #1. They are a no brainer, would bring more value than any of the 6 we've added so far.

I couldn't quite understand your post, sunthas - you like the idea of playing them and think they'd stabilize the west by being in the Big East, but "Boise would probably push for them to say 'no'..."?

Was there a typo somewhere in there, or am I just completely misreading something?

(11-03-2011 09:57 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  I couldn't quite understand your post, sunthas - you like the idea of playing them and think they'd stabilize the west by being in the Big East, but "Boise would probably push for them to say 'no'..."?

Was there a typo somewhere in there, or am I just completely misreading something?

I think he means they don't want anyone else added as a 12th until BYU has said "no". The assumption is that BYU may tell the BE "maybe" for now. I tend to agree that BYU may not be in a hurry to act one way or another as things continue to shake out.

(11-03-2011 10:06 AM)uccheese Wrote:  

(11-03-2011 09:57 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  I couldn't quite understand your post, sunthas - you like the idea of playing them and think they'd stabilize the west by being in the Big East, but "Boise would probably push for them to say 'no'..."?

Was there a typo somewhere in there, or am I just completely misreading something?

I think he means they don't want anyone else added as a 12th until BYU has said "no". The assumption is that BYU may tell the BE "maybe" for now. I tend to agree that BYU may not be in a hurry to act one way or another as things continue to shake out.

Right, I guess my point is, we want BYU membership considered separately from the other 6 schools coming in because the negotiation with BYU is too complex and too slow.

We also wouldn't want to give up on BYU, until we are sure the conditions for BYU membership can't be met or that they aren't interested.

Boise fans have long considered BYU in the Big12 as a gateway for Boise invite since the two schools could be travel partners for the other sports. But as Big12 cooled on BYU and Big East warmed to Boise State our focus as fans shifted.

Okay thanks. All makes sense, and I pretty much agree.

I think that, if they are in fact in discussions with the BE (and we don't know that this is the case), those discussions are totally separate from all the others.

And I agree that, as long as the conference feels that those discussions are in good faith, we should wait for them to either say No, or for us to feel that the window has shut. This will have to be resolved in less than a year, however, because we start negotiating our new TV contract, and a 12-team league will have to be in place so that we can promise the network(s) a CCG. Also, if BYU is a genuine possibility, they will have to be involved in TV negotiations, since they will already have a TV contract in place. So I think the parameters for considering them - if they're negotiating with us at all - are pretty clear-cut for both sides of the discussion.

(11-03-2011 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-03-2011 07:39 AM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  Actually, Houston is a perfect fit. We're not in west Texas, and we're definitely not in Austin.

Yes, but you're also far, far away from the East, and well, to me, that's an essential aspect of being a good fit for the Big East. For what it's worth, i freely admit that USF, while being East, is too far to the south to be an ideal fit. To someone like me who has followed the Big East since the fall of 1979, the Big East is a northeast/mid-atlantic conference.

Quote:Oh, and our basketball and football programs have some historic relevance, too. (Hoops: Five final fours, two-time runners-up, at least two Basketball Hall of Famers.) (Football: Four hall of famers, numerous All-Americans, a few Top Ten finishes (highest finish: #4 in 1976), a Heisman Trophy winner, 20 bowl appearances, ...I could go on.)

I'm well aware of your pedigree in both sports. Unfortunately, from a national perspective, the football program is mainly known for being a foil for Joe Montana in the 1979 Cotton Bowl, and for producing arguably the biggest NFL Heisman flop ever. Sorry, but that's the perception, not all that other stuff. And in basketball, it's known as the school of Phi Slamma Jamma and Elvin Hayes vs Lou Alcindor in the Astrodome. Great memories in the realm of college basketball, but 30+ years old.

Maybe you guys need better marketing?

One of my favorite games of all time, especially of that era. It ranks right up there with the 1977 "green jersey" game with USC and the 1978 Cotton Bowl beat down of a Texas team featuring Earl Campbell, Johnnie "Ham" Jones and Johnnie "Lam" Jones.

I was 21 years old at the time of the Houston "Chicken Soup" game. Joe Montana had played in high school in the same conference as my high school.

I was a big fan of all fellow Western Pennsylvania natives who played quarterback at ND, including but not limited to Terry Hanratty, Tom Clements and especially Joe Montana.

I clearly recall that game to this day.

I also recall a skinny Montana in high school playing small forward in basketball, being guarded by my high school's starting forward, Chuck Muncie.

(Muncie had been kicked off our high school football team that year because of drug issues).

(11-02-2011 10:48 PM)SmallVoice Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 10:44 PM)Comet Wrote:  I think BYU is definitely listening to all of this

Indeed they are - I live near one of their temples and their missionaries just asked me for my contact info... I think I'll be getting a call from their prophet to ask me about my thoughts on the Big East!!!!! :::::fingers crossed:::::

Sweet.....made me laugh......

There are quite a few LDS Bronco fans too.
Love to see The Y as part of The Big East if the Broncos are Part of the Big East......

(11-03-2011 10:25 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  Okay thanks. All makes sense, and I pretty much agree.

I think that, if they are in fact in discussions with the BE (and we don't know that this is the case), those discussions are totally separate from all the others.

And I agree that, as long as the conference feels that those discussions are in good faith, we should wait for them to either say No, or for us to feel that the window has shut. This will have to be resolved in less than a year, however, because we start negotiating our new TV contract, and a 12-team league will have to be in place so that we can promise the network(s) a CCG. Also, if BYU is a genuine possibility, they will have to be involved in TV negotiations, since they will already have a TV contract in place. So I think the parameters for considering them - if they're negotiating with us at all - are pretty clear-cut for both sides of the discussion.

One other thing about BYU. Their current contract is with ESPN. If Big East starts getting more traction from Fox or NBC that will make it more complicated for the BYU TV deal to mesh.

Unfortunately, one of my personal hopes (perhaps not shared by anybody else) is that we'll end up with NBC. I think it would be sweet for us to be the first conference on their new sports channel, and I think their entry into the negotiation arena will help us get more than we might have otherwise.

For obvious reasons, I've soured on ESPN as any sort of a partner-in-good-faith of the Big East conference.

But who knows what'll happen.

(11-03-2011 11:03 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  Unfortunately, one of my personal hopes (perhaps not shared by anybody else) is that we'll end up with NBC. I think it would be sweet for us to be the first conference on their new sports channel, and I think their entry into the negotiation arena will help us get more than we might have otherwise.

For obvious reasons, I've soured on ESPN as any sort of a partner-in-good-faith of the Big East conference.

But who knows what'll happen.

The NBC angle is exciting, but Boise State fans that believe in Black Helicopters think lack of ESPN games this year is creating a backlash by ESPN against Boise State. Seems like the hate is piled on pretty thick this year. ESPN is still the leader and it helps a conference that might have perception issues to be on ESPN.

Boise State plays on NBCs sports channel now (Versus). It's nice, but ratings aren't anywhere near ESPN I'm sure.

Here is a article from SLC about BYU to Big East.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/528...e.html.csp

(11-03-2011 07:03 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  They may wait on the Big 12 a little longer.

They could have been in the Big XII if they wanted to be. The Big XII was asking something of them they choose not to do. Exactly what, I don't know, but I will bet it had something to do with leaving their new conference right away and/or the Sunday thing.

Don't count NBC out based on the current Versus network. Apparently they're going to expand it into an ESPN-like (or at least a Fox-like) network for sports programming. The Big East was really the conference that made ESPN what it is. I'd love to do that for an NBC sports network. I am not that concerned with ratings as long as the games are actually available.

(11-03-2011 11:42 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  Don't count NBC out based on the current Versus network. Apparently they're going to expand it into an ESPN-like (or at least a Fox-like) network for sports programming. The Big East was really the conference that made ESPN what it is. I'd love to do that for an NBC sports network. I am not that concerned with ratings as long as the games are actually available.

Our Coach Petersen, has complained that lack of ESPN games hurts recruiting. But he wont be involved in any Big East TV deal. just a point to note.

(11-03-2011 11:44 AM)sunthas Wrote:  

(11-03-2011 11:42 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  Don't count NBC out based on the current Versus network. Apparently they're going to expand it into an ESPN-like (or at least a Fox-like) network for sports programming. The Big East was really the conference that made ESPN what it is. I'd love to do that for an NBC sports network. I am not that concerned with ratings as long as the games are actually available.

Our Coach Petersen, has complained that lack of ESPN games hurts recruiting. But he wont be involved in any Big East TV deal. just a point to note.

It's a good point, and Big East fans have debated this issue over and over again. I can't provide numbers, but I remember seeing somebody post that the number of subscribers to a potential NBC sports network was as high as ESPN, and with the NBC name, it really wouldn't be long (I bet) at all before this was not the issue that it appears to be today.

But it will boil down to money in the end. Whoever is willing to pay most for BE programming will be showing the games.

Keep in mind that NBC also owns USA Network. If a few marquee games are not on NBC itself, I imagine some will be on USA. USA is actually the top rated cable network, and is in more homes than both ESPN and ESPN2.

(11-03-2011 11:54 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Keep in mind that NBC also owns USA Network. If a few marquee games are not on NBC itself, I imagine some will be on USA. USA is actually the top rated cable network, and is in more homes than both ESPN and ESPN2.

I think whoever posted those numbers was probably including USA, which boosted the NBC numbers above ESPN's.

I personally think they could have made the B12 work but I surmise that factions within the LDS were veeeery leery of committing to that conference. The media played the BE drum beat and made them look chaotic and siraling out of control but the real uncertainty is in the B12 were Judas and his posse reside.

For reasons I listed above, I'm not so sure. BYU's sense of moral responsibility is very high, and they were not keen on joining the WCC in other sports, only to abandon it almost immediately. That would've been problematic for the Big 12 which probably doesn't want a hybrid. And the TV deal that BYU had in place might well have been impossible to make work with the Big 12's deal.

I also think BYU didn't necessarily want to limit its schedule to at least 9 games all against teams from the same region. Going indy for them meant more exposure. A conference consisting of Plains teams from Iowa to Texas would probably have mean less exposure.

The Big East can overcome all of the above problems:
1. We're fine with a hybrid set-up (in fact, we don't want BYU's other sports)
2. We're yet to negotiate a new TV deal, so if BYU's in on the ground floor of the negotiations, we can make it work for them.
3. The BE offers BYU a nationwide schedule that would include 2 different U.S. service academies.

I just think it's a win/win, and that what was impossible with the Big 12 is not just possible, but likely in the BE.

BYU thinks about athletics far differently than we do. I need a BYU fan to further explain it for me. From what a Mormon friend told me, it is also looked upon as a way to spread their message. Money is not the driving factor and I believe they have learned being an independent does not help get them the exposure they want - religiously and/or athletically.