(12-04-2011 11:55 PM)Nacho Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 11:28 PM)JBStemp5 Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 11:25 PM)Nacho Wrote:  WMU didn't make the Sugar Bowl again this year, freakin' unbelievable. NO EXCUSES. Fire Cubit.

Are you content with a 7-5 record? No MAC Championship?

We lost like 3 games by a total of 12 points. That isn't coaches fault. One play here, one play there we are 10-2 with a MAC Championship. Players play, coaches coach. Games are won on the couches and message boards.

k

What is coaches fault in your book? Or does he only have a hand in blowout losses? I'm asking as someone who doesn't want Cubit fired. If the head coach doesn't take responsibility for the actual record, and is only responsible for the fairy tale record, no coach would get fired.

I mean isn't it possible that a coaches decision, or game plan in a close loss has as much to do with the outcome as a personal foul penalty, or a failed 4th and goal run?

Coaches are like anything else. Some are more talented than others. Otherwise, Ohio State would've just stuck with Luke Fickel instead of Urban Meyer.

Say we win between 5-8 games the next three years, and still don't win a MAC west. Is that enough? I don't know.......

By the way, these are serious questions, not trying to be a jerk. I think it's a fair question that WMU fans bring up with Cubit because of his mediocre record.

How about....we 'fans' have this discussion during the offseason AFTER the bowl game?

By the way, this is a serious question, not trying to be a jerk. I think it's fair since we could be discussing match ups, common opponents and celebrating our trip to Ford Field against a Big Ten team.

Quote:We lost like 3 games by a total of 12 points. That isn't coaches fault. One play here, one play there we are 10-2 with a MAC Championship. Players play, coaches coach. Games are won on the couches and message boards.

Although I'm not in the "fire Cubit" boat, I will say that that isn't a good reason. Zook got fired despite losing most by 1 or 2 possessions, beating a (conference) undefeated Sun Belt team, a Pac 12 team, a dangerous Mac team, and their in-state rival NW. And they're going to a bowl, and they're a team not going-for-broke for National Stardom. Problem is, he gets great recruits, has gone to the Rose Bowl b4, and went from 6-0 to 0-6, to finish off .500. They could have been 8-4, let's say. Should that have made him keep his job? If he would have squeeked out against Purdue (lost by 7) and Penn State (lost by 3)? There's close wins, and close losses.

We shouldn't have been in such a squeeker at all against EMU... and against Miami, we could have lost that. UCONN? Thank God we bounced back after letting them back in; they were rolling at the end there to win it until we did. The Toledo game? Only by 3? Our D gave up 800 yards and Toledo turned it over 6 times to keep us in it. We scored 60+ pts but punted 5 times.

It's how your team plays, IMO -- and consistency. Just looking at wins-losses, we had 1 Heck-Yeah Win (UCONN), and 1 WTF Loss (EMU). You figure that can happen... and having Toledo & NIU on the road, and playing UofM & Illinois on the road as well, 7-5 wasn't a crazy notion. But that depends on how well we showed our potential. We DESERVE to be 7-5 by what we've done. I don't just have EMU as our WTF-Loss, but NIU & Toledo in that boat as well. All conference, west division games.... based on how we played -- not that we played well, but the ball didn't bounce our way and road games inspired the other enough. It's how you play the game and execute with consistency, IMO...

Our potential says 8-4, 9-3. Do we fire Cubit for not having the team operate efficiently enough, and for not ending up being 8-4 or 9-3 & being a Mac West contender like we had the potential for? It's not like this is the first time we've had potential and it just "didn't work out" and fell short.

In the end, I say it's difficult if he's a good recruiter and we end up, more or less being a winning team in our conference in the tougher division. Keeping his seat a little warm can motivate him, but ditching him could put us in a spot where it'd be too long to get to winning ways again.

(12-05-2011 11:40 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:We lost like 3 games by a total of 12 points. That isn't coaches fault. One play here, one play there we are 10-2 with a MAC Championship. Players play, coaches coach. Games are won on the couches and message boards.

Although I'm not in the "fire Cubit" boat, I will say that that isn't a good reason. Zook got fired despite losing most by 1 or 2 possessions, beating a (conference) undefeated Sun Belt team, a Pac 12 team, a dangerous Mac team, and their in-state rival NW. And they're going to a bowl, and they're a team not going-for-broke for National Stardom. Problem is, he gets great recruits, has gone to the Rose Bowl b4, and went from 6-0 to 0-6, to finish off .500. They could have been 8-4, let's say. Should that have made him keep his job? If he would have squeeked out against Purdue (lost by 7) and Penn State (lost by 3)? There's close wins, and close losses.

We shouldn't have been in such a squeeker at all against EMU... and against Miami, we could have lost that. UCONN? Thank God we bounced back after letting them back in; they were rolling at the end there to win it until we did. The Toledo game? Only by 3? Our D gave up 800 yards and Toledo turned it over 6 times to keep us in it. We scored 60+ pts but punted 5 times.

It's how your team plays, IMO -- and consistency. Just looking at wins-losses, we had 1 Heck-Yeah Win (UCONN), and 1 WTF Loss (EMU). You figure that can happen... and having Toledo & NIU on the road, and playing UofM & Illinois on the road as well, 7-5 wasn't a crazy notion. But that depends on how well we showed our potential. We DESERVE to be 7-5 by what we've done. I don't just have EMU as our WTF-Loss, but NIU & Toledo in that boat as well. All conference, west division games.... based on how we played -- not that we played well, but the ball didn't bounce our way and road games inspired the other enough. It's how you play the game and execute with consistency, IMO...

Our potential says 8-4, 9-3. Do we fire Cubit for not having the team operate efficiently enough, and for not ending up being 8-4 or 9-3 & being a Mac West contender like we had the potential for? It's not like this is the first time we've had potential and it just "didn't work out" and fell short.

In the end, I say it's difficult if he's a good recruiter and we end up, more or less being a winning team in our conference in the tougher division. Keeping his seat a little warm can motivate him, but ditching him could put us in a spot where it'd be too long to get to winning ways again.

Here is the thing, its not like this is the only year where we were projected to compete for a MAC championship. We have had talented teams in the past but have not pulled through...the way I look at it, I see 3 teams under Cubit that had the potential of being in MAC Championship game, Hiller's junior and senior year and Carder's junior. Obviously, those 3 teams did not end up there.

His play calling is so so so basic. swing past to left, swing past to right, deep bomb to White. Literally, this year I have sat in the stands knowing the next play is a swing pass since he always calls it. I have seen teams have their CB jamb the receiver at the line and throw linebackers out to the flanks because they too know a swing pass is coming.

All in all, my point is that we have had talented teams to win a MAC Championship with. We should not have been 7-5 this year. we should have been 8-4, 9-3.

But I do agree with DB, this is a legitimate topic for future discussion. But lets hold off until after the bowl game.

(12-05-2011 12:01 PM)JBStemp5 Wrote:  

(12-05-2011 11:40 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:We lost like 3 games by a total of 12 points. That isn't coaches fault. One play here, one play there we are 10-2 with a MAC Championship. Players play, coaches coach. Games are won on the couches and message boards.

Although I'm not in the "fire Cubit" boat, I will say that that isn't a good reason. Zook got fired despite losing most by 1 or 2 possessions, beating a (conference) undefeated Sun Belt team, a Pac 12 team, a dangerous Mac team, and their in-state rival NW. And they're going to a bowl, and they're a team not going-for-broke for National Stardom. Problem is, he gets great recruits, has gone to the Rose Bowl b4, and went from 6-0 to 0-6, to finish off .500. They could have been 8-4, let's say. Should that have made him keep his job? If he would have squeeked out against Purdue (lost by 7) and Penn State (lost by 3)? There's close wins, and close losses.

We shouldn't have been in such a squeeker at all against EMU... and against Miami, we could have lost that. UCONN? Thank God we bounced back after letting them back in; they were rolling at the end there to win it until we did. The Toledo game? Only by 3? Our D gave up 800 yards and Toledo turned it over 6 times to keep us in it. We scored 60+ pts but punted 5 times.

It's how your team plays, IMO -- and consistency. Just looking at wins-losses, we had 1 Heck-Yeah Win (UCONN), and 1 WTF Loss (EMU). You figure that can happen... and having Toledo & NIU on the road, and playing UofM & Illinois on the road as well, 7-5 wasn't a crazy notion. But that depends on how well we showed our potential. We DESERVE to be 7-5 by what we've done. I don't just have EMU as our WTF-Loss, but NIU & Toledo in that boat as well. All conference, west division games.... based on how we played -- not that we played well, but the ball didn't bounce our way and road games inspired the other enough. It's how you play the game and execute with consistency, IMO...

Our potential says 8-4, 9-3. Do we fire Cubit for not having the team operate efficiently enough, and for not ending up being 8-4 or 9-3 & being a Mac West contender like we had the potential for? It's not like this is the first time we've had potential and it just "didn't work out" and fell short.

In the end, I say it's difficult if he's a good recruiter and we end up, more or less being a winning team in our conference in the tougher division. Keeping his seat a little warm can motivate him, but ditching him could put us in a spot where it'd be too long to get to winning ways again.

Here is the thing, its not like this is the only year where we were projected to compete for a MAC championship. We have had talented teams in the past but have not pulled through...the way I look at it, I see 3 teams under Cubit that had the potential of being in MAC Championship game, Hiller's junior and senior year and Carder's junior. Obviously, those 3 teams did not end up there.

His play calling is so so so basic. swing past to left, swing past to right, deep bomb to White. Literally, this year I have sat in the stands knowing the next play is a swing pass since he always calls it. I have seen teams have their CB jamb the receiver at the line and throw linebackers out to the flanks because they too know a swing pass is coming.

All in all, my point is that we have had talented teams to win a MAC Championship with. We should not have been 7-5 this year. we should have been 8-4, 9-3.

But I do agree with DB, this is a legitimate topic for future discussion. But lets hold off until after the bowl game.

Hiller's senior year was not close to a championship caliber team. It got way overhyped due to a pretty good (not great) senior QB, ignoring huge holes on defense and a sometimes shaky WR corps.

I disagree on play calling as well. We call lots of swings and screens because they've been effective.. Notice that against teams that were able to stop them (Illinois, UConn to some degree, hell even Toledo and Miami) we started throwing downfield more, and effectively. This is really a pretty complex offense and Cubit has done a great job developing Carder.

The defense absolutely has to be better, and I do think the personnel is there. Somewhere in the middle of the year we lost our aggressiveness. Cubit clearly knows it since he's been up in the defensive staff's collective grill on the sidelines the past couple of weeks, but that's going to make or break next year in all likelihood. It already broke this year to some degree.

He has been poor against CMU. 2-5 I believe since he has been hired. Hell, he lost to a 2 win CMU team last year.

I wouldn't be shocked to hear the admin talk about extension after the bowl game.

(12-05-2011 12:31 PM)fbgab Wrote:  I wouldn't be shocked to hear the admin talk about extension after the bowl game.

I agree. I thought the same thing, and, sadly, its disappointing we are settling for mediocrity.

CMU has had 2 coaches that have gone to the next level in terms of program, yet Cubit has stayed at wmu for the past 7 years with mediocre records.

Quote:I agree. I thought the same thing, and, sadly, its disappointing we are settling for mediocrity.

By your definition of "mediocrity" 9 other teams in the league should be firing their coaches as we speak.

(12-05-2011 01:24 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  

Quote:I agree. I thought the same thing, and, sadly, its disappointing we are settling for mediocrity.

By your definition of "mediocrity" 9 other teams in the league should be firing their coaches as we speak.

so? Is that an excuse not to fire him? Just because other schools won't we shouldn't? come on...

I really want to say something but this is too silly.

(12-05-2011 01:31 PM)JBStemp5 Wrote:  

(12-05-2011 01:24 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  

Quote:I agree. I thought the same thing, and, sadly, its disappointing we are settling for mediocrity.

By your definition of "mediocrity" 9 other teams in the league should be firing their coaches as we speak.

so? Is that an excuse not to fire him? Just because other schools won't we shouldn't? come on...

Probably a good thing that you're not in charge of hiring and firing you.

(12-05-2011 01:24 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  By your definition of "mediocrity" 9 other teams in the league should be firing their coaches as we speak.

You are such a prevaricator.

Hazell (Kent), Treadwell (Miami), Lembo (Ball State))1st year; Enos (CMU),Quinn (Buffalo) 2nd year; Clawson (BG), English (EMU) 3rd year. Ianello (Akron) is out after two years.

Yes, they all had worse records than us this season. But Cubit has been on the job for seven years and .500 for last four without a MACC game appearance, 2-5 vs. CMU, under .500 vs. West division teams.

That said, this subject should be closed until next Fall.

(12-05-2011 01:37 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  

(12-05-2011 01:31 PM)JBStemp5 Wrote:  

(12-05-2011 01:24 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  

Quote:I agree. I thought the same thing, and, sadly, its disappointing we are settling for mediocrity.

By your definition of "mediocrity" 9 other teams in the league should be firing their coaches as we speak.

so? Is that an excuse not to fire him? Just because other schools won't we shouldn't? come on...

Probably a good thing that you're not in charge of hiring and firing you.

I understand. You want a team that will make a bowl game once and a while, play average every year, lose to cmu, be humiliated on national television, never win a mac championship. If that s what you want that is understandable but stop trying to protect him like he is a god like coach.

Quote:I understand. You want a team that will make a bowl game once and a while, play average every year, lose to cmu, be humiliated on national television, never win a mac championship. If that s what you want that is understandable but stop trying to protect him like he is a god like coach.

I understand. You want a team that will make a bowl game once and a while- 3 out of 7 years is "once in awhile." Kind of like saying Ted Williams couldn't even hit .500

play average every year- If 8 and 9 win seasons are average, then give me average every year.

lose to cmu- Damn, I was sure I was at a game this year and the other team was called CMU, and we beat them by 30. Boy, my memory is failing.

stop trying to protect him like he is a god like coach.- He doesn't deserve some weenie who couldn't hold his jock strap constantly calling for his firing. He's earned the right to not have azzholes like you go on Couch's articles on Mlive and do rants about how he needs to be fired. When we become what CMU, Kent, and Akron have become then your rants will make perfect sense. For now they are assinine, particularly in the face of recent news.

(12-05-2011 09:47 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  How about....we 'fans' have this discussion during the offseason AFTER the bowl game?

By the way, this is a serious question, not trying to be a jerk. I think it's fair since we could be discussing match ups, common opponents and celebrating our trip to Ford Field against a Big Ten team.

When we come oh so close to beating a mediocre Big Ten team?

(12-05-2011 01:24 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  By your definition of "mediocrity" 9 other teams in the league should be firing their coaches as we speak.

This.

Believe me, there is no one that gets more frustrated during games when it comes to some of the coaching decisions that are made than me. The predictability on offense and the struggles on defense are infuriating to me. We lose the big games on the big stage and have had a tough time with our rivals the last few years. The losses to EMU, NIU and UT this year were tough to swallow. All this is frustrating to me as well!

I have always said that our goal should be MAC West, MAC Championship and Bowl Game in that order. To not win either of the first two, but still go to the third is still kind of disappointment to me. So the way I look at this season was a lost opportunity to fulfill our three objectives, although we still obtained #3, which should be celebrated.

We have to realize that we are a MAC school. Granted our goal should be to be a top tier MAC school. I’m not sure if we fit that right now or not.

Cubit is a good coach and a good guy. He demands character and good academics from his guys. This is key! I think he does a good job preparing the guys for life after football. I think it’s fair to demand a better showing in some aspects of the game, but we have to acknowledge the good as well. We were undefeated this year at home, won one road game against a BCS school and one road game against a MAC team, and we’re going to a bowl game; all good things!

I don’t think firing him or giving him an extension is justified at this point. I also don’t think that we are settling for mediocrity. It is what it is, a difficult year in the MAC with a so-so outcome. We should consider this season a “success” regardless of the outcome of the LCPB.

Sorry for the rambling, just my $0.02

Time to put this thread to bed. We've just been given what we've wanted ... a great bowl bid, close to home, with a tough opponent. Bill Cubit is part of the reason. Mr. Whinny is tired of seeing this thread title up near the top of the board. This is a new football season - bowl season - and we get to play! Off with the old. On with the new. Suit up! Are we rrrrrready to rrrrrrumble?!!

Time to move on. Or I'll withhold your allowances, dammit!

(12-05-2011 01:47 PM)Chipdip Wrote:  

Quote:I understand. You want a team that will make a bowl game once and a while, play average every year, lose to cmu, be humiliated on national television, never win a mac championship. If that s what you want that is understandable but stop trying to protect him like he is a god like coach.

I understand. You want a team that will make a bowl game once and a while- 3 out of 7 years is "once in awhile." Kind of like saying Ted Williams couldn't even hit .500

play average every year- If 8 and 9 win seasons are average, then give me average every year.

lose to cmu- Damn, I was sure I was at a game this year and the other team was called CMU, and we beat them by 30. Boy, my memory is failing.

stop trying to protect him like he is a god like coach.- He doesn't deserve some weenie who couldn't hold his jock strap constantly calling for his firing. He's earned the right to not have azzholes like you go on Couch's articles on Mlive and do rants about how he needs to be fired. When we become what CMU, Kent, and Akron have become then your rants will make perfect sense. For now they are assinine, particularly in the face of recent news.

did they win 8 or 9 games this year? what was their record last year?

was referring to his 2-5 record as a coach to CMU

I do not go on Couch's articles, because it was only until this year until I wanted him out.

and the bowl game aspect...Toledo and NIU show up more often than us in bowl games.

Oh well though, I understand you want mediocrity, which is understandable, but we can agree to disagree.

I will see you all in Detroit!