Let me start off by saying, I think the RPI has its usage but is far from an all encompassing evaluative tool. However, in the number of years I've followed it, I have never seen the likes of this...

2. Georgetown
3. Syracuse
6. Connecticut
7. St. John's
9. Pittsburgh
11. West Virginia
12. Notre Dame

SEVEN teams in the Top 12? Really?!? Using Jerry Palm's RPI site (which goes back to the 1993-94 season), I went back to see how many teams a conference has gotten in the Top 15 through January 1 games in the past.

Here's what I found:

Big Ten: 4 teams in Top 15 in 98-99
ACC: 4 teams in Top 15 06-07 and 08-09
Big 12: 4 teams in Top 15 09-10
Big East: 4 teams in Top 15 in 08-09 and 09-10

Have the league's teams learned how to "rig" the RPI? Is the rest of the nation really that bad in terms of teams? Is the league really this great?

I'm sure there is a kernel of truth for all three, but it's history in the making regardless.

Cautiously optimistic for 10 bids for the league this year if Huggs can right the ship in WV.

Cheers,
Neil

Huggs will get WVU on track. Remember, last year WVU looked shaky early, and went on a roll at the end of the season...

Neil I hope you are right but I still think 9 is our absolute tops. Somehow the committee will rig it and our 10th team will be one of the first four left out.

We'll see, Mark. But I'm leaning towards your way of thinking. There's a bias against voting for BEast teams, since the other conferences want to do anything to prevent us from seeming so clearly superior to them...

i guess i could look it up, but how did the other 9 rate in the rpi?

How can St. John's be #7 when they lost to Fordham. St. John's is better than they have been in recent years. but really, a loss by a Big East team to Fordham is inexcusable, not to mention a Big East team that is "allegedly" #7.

If you're interested, the list is @ http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_bige_Men.html

But it looks like this...

RPI Rk Big East Conf All RPI SOS Rk SOS
2 Georgetown 0-1 11-2 0.6986 1 0.6344
Up 3 From Last Week 3 Syracuse 1-0 14-0 0.6724 44 0.5632
Up 1 From Last Week 6 Connecticut 1-1 11-1 0.6606 34 0.5713
Up 7 From Last Week 8 Pittsburgh 1-0 13-1 0.6455 46 0.5606
Up 13 From Last Week 11 St. John's 1-0 8-3 0.6344 9 0.6047
Down 7 From Last Week 12 West Virginia 0-2 8-4 0.6336 3 0.6269
Up 23 From Last Week 14 Notre Dame 1-0 12-1 0.6328 62 0.5459
Up 8 From Last Week 26 Villanova 0-0 11-1 0.6151 110 0.5189
Down 16 From Last Week 46 Louisville 0-0 11-2 0.5871 68 0.5410
Up 3 From Last Week 50 Providence 0-1 11-3 0.5822 129 0.5111
Up 27 From Last Week 69 Cincinnati 2-0 14-0 0.5669 327 0.4225
Down 2 From Last Week 102 Rutgers 0-0 9-3 0.5384 242 0.4679
Down 2 From Last Week 104 South Florida 0-2 6-9 0.5380 14 0.6003
Up 33 From Last Week 119 Seton Hall 1-1 7-7 0.5277 47 0.5585
Up 45 From Last Week 123 Marquette 1-0 10-4 0.5254 191 0.4907
Up 14 From Last Week 257 DePaul 0-1 6-7 0.4411 232 0.4750

(01-02-2011 01:07 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  How can St. John's be #7 when they lost to Fordham. St. John's is better than they have been in recent years. but really, a loss by a Big East team to Fordham is inexcusable, not to mention a Big East team that is "allegedly" #7.

fordham loss could be a fluke. Pitt and Nova lost to Tennessee who has lost or nearly lost to a few questionable teams. i dont think many would question pitt and nova's rankings. we'll see how it plays out during conference play.

Funny. UC beat DePaul and DePaul jumped 12 spots the next day. UC beat Seton Hall and they jumped 21 spots the next day. Providence loses its first two games and they jumped more than 15 spots as a result. South Florida keeps losing to everyone yet they still climb in the RPI.

Love me some RPI.

(01-02-2011 01:07 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  How can St. John's be #7 when they lost to Fordham. St. John's is better than they have been in recent years. but really, a loss by a Big East team to Fordham is inexcusable, not to mention a Big East team that is "allegedly" #7.

The Fordham loss was on the road, so in terms of RPI it only hurts the Johnnies in terms of winning percentage of opponents. And even there, the Rams are a .500 club at the moment. Virtually all of their opponents are above .500 or 1 game below.

Where the Rams loss will hurt St. John's is with the committee in March if they are a bubble team at that time. It will give them a reason not to pick them.

Cheers,
Neil

(01-02-2011 04:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Funny. UC beat DePaul and DePaul jumped 12 spots the next day. UC beat Seton Hall and they jumped 21 spots the next day. Providence loses its first two games and they jumped more than 15 spots as a result. South Florida keeps losing to everyone yet they still climb in the RPI.

Love me some RPI.

A good bit of the formula depends on how well teams you've played do as well. So looking at it from a strictly wins and losses perspective is going to leave you baffled...

(01-02-2011 10:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Neil I hope you are right but I still think 9 is our absolute tops. Somehow the committee will rig it and our 10th team will be one of the first four left out.

I hear what you are saying, but I'm still cautiously optimistic. If an 11-team conference can get 7 in (which the Big Ten has at least twice in the past), then a 16-team conference should be able to get 10 in. It's the same percentage of teams.

Things will have to fall into place just right, but with 12 teams competing and with none of the upper echelon teams looking like the 08-09 triumvirate of UL, Pitt, and UConn, there are plenty of RPI Top 50 wins to be had in conference.

But it will be up to those last few teams to give the committee reasons to put them in, not reasons to keep them out like late season collapses the Hoyas and the Irish had two years ago.

For St. John's, they need to win more games period. They will likely finish with the #1 overall SOS. Finishing 17-13 with that tough schedule will likely not be enough as it has been in the past for other teams for other conferences. Winning 2 games early on in conference they were not projected to win, helps.

For Cincy, SOS could be their downfall. So, while simply having a 10-8 conference record could likely be good enough for a St. John's to get in, for the Bearcats they might have to win the "right" 10 games (meaning wins over the upper echelon teams) to get in or 11/12 conference games.

Still a long way to go and possible injuries like ND may have suffered yesterday with Carleton Scott will factor in as well.

Cheers,
Neil

St. John's RPI was helped by their win over WVU. Although it was more help before the Mountaineers fell at Marquette...

RPI used to be worth it till people figured out how to exploit it. Few years back the MWC played enough middling teams, no bottom feeders and then each other so that half the conference was in the Top 60. Committee pays less and less attention to it. And that is a good thing.

(01-02-2011 06:49 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  RPI used to be worth it till people figured out how to exploit it. Few years back the MWC played enough middling teams, no bottom feeders and then each other so that half the conference was in the Top 60. Committee pays less and less attention to it. And that is a good thing.

The only time the MWC got 4 of their teams in the Top 60 (actually it was Top 50) was last year and all 4 went to the NCAAs.

I do agree that the current RPI can be "rigged", but you still need to beat those midling teams and also you have to win road games to really "play" it.

Cheers,
Neil

Its going to be a great year for the BEAST Basketball!

That's probably what hurt the Bearcats RPI, the lack of road games OOC.

(01-02-2011 07:05 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(01-02-2011 06:49 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  RPI used to be worth it till people figured out how to exploit it. Few years back the MWC played enough middling teams, no bottom feeders and then each other so that half the conference was in the Top 60. Committee pays less and less attention to it. And that is a good thing.

The only time the MWC got 4 of their teams in the Top 60 (actually it was Top 50) was last year and all 4 went to the NCAAs.

I do agree that the current RPI can be "rigged", but you still need to beat those midling teams and also you have to win road games to really "play" it.

Cheers,
Neil

I think he might mean one year with the Missouri Valley with Wichita State, Bradley, etc... EDIT-- in 2006

(01-03-2011 02:12 PM)billyjack Wrote:  

(01-02-2011 07:05 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(01-02-2011 06:49 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  RPI used to be worth it till people figured out how to exploit it. Few years back the MWC played enough middling teams, no bottom feeders and then each other so that half the conference was in the Top 60. Committee pays less and less attention to it. And that is a good thing.

The only time the MWC got 4 of their teams in the Top 60 (actually it was Top 50) was last year and all 4 went to the NCAAs.

I do agree that the current RPI can be "rigged", but you still need to beat those midling teams and also you have to win road games to really "play" it.

Cheers,
Neil

I think he might mean one year with the Missouri Valley with Wichita State, Bradley, etc... EDIT-- in 2006

Yup...the Cuse got screwed out of a bid due the MVC riggin their RPIs...as I remember they all flamed out early too.

I think UofL is going to struggle to make the tournament with our rash of injuries. Jared Swopshire is not going to play this season at all, and Rakeem Buckles, our leading rebounder, broke his finger in practice last week and had surgery prior to the UK game. Rebounding was a weak point to begin with, and with Buckles out 6 weeks we'll see how that goes.

UofL needs to win every "winnable" game and that means starting out 2-0 this week with hosting Seton Hall and travelling to Tampa. If we pick up losses in games like that we'll be hosting NIT games in March.