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A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #21
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 11:46 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 11:40 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Mizzou/Nebraska/Pitt/Rutgers/Cuse to the Big 10

Texas/TAMU/OU/OSU to the SEC

Colorado/Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Kansas State/Iowa State to the Pac-10

UCONN/WVU/Cincy/Louisville to the ACC

Boise/Houston/Tulsa/Nevada/Fresno St. to the MWC

Those are the five AQ conferences...

The remaining WAC/C-USA/SBC/Independents and USF are left to pick up the pieces and fend for themselves. The divide between the haves and have nots becomes even greater.

Don't think it would actually happen, as I don't see the Pac-10 going that far east and not all of those schools, most notably TTU really fit in the Pac-10. Also the SEC has said they aren't expanding, but if the movement to beyond 12 becomes the norm, this or something very close to this wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.
You mean the ACC, right?

link

MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- Southeastern Conference coaches aren't in any rush to expand.

LSU's Les Miles says expansion would make it difficult to set up schedules fairly, and he hopes it doesn't happen anytime soon.

Georgia coach Mark Richt says other power conferences are more likely than the SEC to expand.

There has been talk of expansion from both the Big Ten and Pac-10, and SEC coaches fielded expansion questions during a teleconference Thursday.

SEC commissioner Mike Slive says the league would consider expanding if it's necessary to maintain its position because of significant growth in other leagues.

Alabama coach Nick Saban says a lot of teams would be interested if the SEC grew to 16 teams.




So maybe they haven't actually said they aren't expanding, but the coaches are against it.
05-03-2010 01:11 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
If the Big XII ends up getting raided by multiple leagues, it will be some or all of Kansas State, Kansas, Baylor, Texas Tech, and Iowa State left over.

TAMU is the luckiest school in the country because they're hitching a ride with Texas no matter what happens. Texas and Oklahoma will most likely be a package deal as well and Oklahoma State may be in the same position as Texas A&M and get to suck on the teet of the Oklahoma teet.

The consulation prize for the Big XII leftovers is they will have the opportunity to move westward with MWC/C-USA/WAC or eastward with Big East/C-USA members. Either way they should be able to maintain AQ status.
05-03-2010 01:24 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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Post: #23
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
I don't think it's a given that Oklahoma will be packaged with Texas...
05-03-2010 01:48 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #24
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 01:48 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I don't think it's a given that Oklahoma will be packaged with Texas...

It's not a given, but why would either of them want to split up? Why force the Red River Rivalry to non-conference?
05-03-2010 02:01 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #25
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
TAMU creates great value in their own regard: 85k filled football stadium, located between Dallas and Houston, solid BB school and large rabid alumni base. They would be a plus for any conference with or without UT.
05-03-2010 02:15 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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Post: #26
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 02:01 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 01:48 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I don't think it's a given that Oklahoma will be packaged with Texas...

It's not a given, but why would either of them want to split up? Why force the Red River Rivalry to non-conference?

You do remember that it used to be a non-conference game, right? Before the Big XII formed, those two schools played as members of the SWC (Texas) and Big 8 (OU).
05-03-2010 02:43 PM
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Post: #27
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 02:43 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 02:01 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 01:48 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I don't think it's a given that Oklahoma will be packaged with Texas...

It's not a given, but why would either of them want to split up? Why force the Red River Rivalry to non-conference?

You do remember that it used to be a non-conference game, right? Before the Big XII formed, those two schools played as members of the SWC (Texas) and Big 8 (OU).

But most of those years Texas didn't have to contend with too many schools that could knock them off in league play from 1960-1995 they finished below .500 in league play twice and finished undefeated in league play 10 times and made through with one loss seven times.
05-03-2010 02:55 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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Post: #28
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
All I'm saying is... don't assume Texas and OU are joined at the hip in this latest realignment purely b/c they play a "rivalry" game.
05-03-2010 02:58 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #29
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 02:15 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  TAMU creates great value in their own regard: 85k filled football stadium, located between Dallas and Houston, solid BB school and large rabid alumni base. They would be a plus for any conference with or without UT.

The story goes that when Texas almost joined the SEC in 1990 that Texas state legislature wouldn't allow them to move without TAMU and the SEC didn't want TAMU. I'm not saying that A&M doesn't have anything to offer, but Texas is the big prize and any conference wanting to take Texas must also take A&M, which despite what A&M has to offer they probably wouldn't have been in the top 5 choices for the Pac-10, Big 10 or SEC, the three conferences that would presumably have interest in Texas and that Texas could possibly leave for.
05-03-2010 03:08 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #30
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 01:11 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 11:46 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 11:40 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Mizzou/Nebraska/Pitt/Rutgers/Cuse to the Big 10

Texas/TAMU/OU/OSU to the SEC

Colorado/Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Kansas State/Iowa State to the Pac-10

UCONN/WVU/Cincy/Louisville to the ACC

Boise/Houston/Tulsa/Nevada/Fresno St. to the MWC

Those are the five AQ conferences...

The remaining WAC/C-USA/SBC/Independents and USF are left to pick up the pieces and fend for themselves. The divide between the haves and have nots becomes even greater.

Don't think it would actually happen, as I don't see the Pac-10 going that far east and not all of those schools, most notably TTU really fit in the Pac-10. Also the SEC has said they aren't expanding, but if the movement to beyond 12 becomes the norm, this or something very close to this wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.
You mean the ACC, right?

link

MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- Southeastern Conference coaches aren't in any rush to expand.

LSU's Les Miles says expansion would make it difficult to set up schedules fairly, and he hopes it doesn't happen anytime soon.

Georgia coach Mark Richt says other power conferences are more likely than the SEC to expand.

There has been talk of expansion from both the Big Ten and Pac-10, and SEC coaches fielded expansion questions during a teleconference Thursday.

SEC commissioner Mike Slive says the league would consider expanding if it's necessary to maintain its position because of significant growth in other leagues.

Alabama coach Nick Saban says a lot of teams would be interested if the SEC grew to 16 teams.




So maybe they haven't actually said they aren't expanding, but the coaches are against it.
Try this link, which is maybe more definitive. But my point was the SEC has not gone public and said they were NOT expanding, which is what you posted, that I was questioning. The ACC commish DID say that, so I thought you mistyped.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/ne...-expansion
05-03-2010 03:12 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #31
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 02:01 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 01:48 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I don't think it's a given that Oklahoma will be packaged with Texas...

It's not a given, but why would either of them want to split up? Why force the Red River Rivalry to non-conference?
It was that way for many years. And a lot of Texas posters say their admin is willing to let one of OU or TAMU go OOC, just not both.
05-03-2010 03:13 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #32
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 03:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 02:01 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 01:48 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I don't think it's a given that Oklahoma will be packaged with Texas...

It's not a given, but why would either of them want to split up? Why force the Red River Rivalry to non-conference?
It was that way for many years. And a lot of Texas posters say their admin is willing to let one of OU or TAMU go OOC, just not both.

Well it doesn't seem like they'll have the option of TAMU going to ooc, right? If UT and TAMU are truly joined at the hip anyway. So in your opinion, what's the scenario in which UT and OU end up in seperate conferences? Would the Pac-10 take a flier on TAMU if it meant landing the big prize? Maybe if the SEC were to expand only to 14, or expand to 16, but add Texas and TAMU to the west and a package from the ACC to the east? Virginia Tech and Tennessee could become quick rivals in football, could a VT move to the SEC finally get that oft attempted game at Bristol to finally happen?
05-03-2010 03:20 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #33
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
Yeah, I think UT and TAMU could go P10, while OU and OK St. go SEC. Not saying it will happen, only that it is a realistic possibility.

And I don't think UT and TAMU are necessarily joined at the hip, only saying that UT is unwilling to have to deal with BOTH as OOC, so they intend for at least one of the two to go with them, if they go somewhere.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2010 03:24 PM by TripleA.)
05-03-2010 03:23 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #34
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 03:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Yeah, I think UT and TAMU could go P10, while OU and OK St. go SEC. Not saying it will happen, only that it is a realistic possibility.

And I don't think UT and TAMU are necessarily joined at the hip, only saying that UT is unwilling to have to deal with BOTH as OOC, so they intend for at least one of the two to go with them, if they go somewhere.

I've heard that Texas state legislature won't allow Texas to go anywhere without bring TAMU along for the ride.

And do you really think that the SEC would take Oklahoma State unless they were similarly tied to OU?

IMO if it's possible to get Texas without TAMU the obvious move for the SEC is to add UT/OU to the West and pretty much any two from the ACC(save for BC) to the East.
05-03-2010 03:31 PM
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Post: #35
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
As long as the current Governor of Texas is an A&M graduate, it looks like Texas isn't moving w/o A&M unless some serious (in-state) deal making is done.
05-03-2010 03:36 PM
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Post: #36
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 03:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  Well it doesn't seem like they'll have the option of TAMU going to ooc, right? If UT and TAMU are truly joined at the hip anyway. So in your opinion, what's the scenario in which UT and OU end up in seperate conferences?
My assumption is Texas, much like Notre Dame, looks out for numero uno first, second, and third. If they left to join say the Pac 10, and aTm was part of it, I do not think they would care where Oklahoma went.

My assumption is one of two things happens in that situation. With the SEC's current revenue model, Oklahoma appears to be the only team that might be available to join that might add enough value to a TV contract to justify expansion. That is just a guess, and obviosuly ESPN and CBS may feel differently. This assumption assumes that Texas, Miami, and Florida State, would not be interested (due to academics), and that Nebraska is in the Big Ten. If that doesn't happen, you woudl probably see the remnants of the Big XII and Big East form a conference, which would be competitive in all sports, but not exactly dripping in revenue.
05-03-2010 03:37 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #37
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 03:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Try this link, which is maybe more definitive. But my point was the SEC has not gone public and said they were NOT expanding, which is what you posted, that I was questioning. The ACC commish DID say that, so I thought you mistyped.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/ne...-expansion

Good article, hadn't seen that one. Love the most recent comment, wonder what school he's a fan of...HA!

"SEC should add Clemson, FSU, GA Tech, Troy"

05-03-2010 03:39 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #38
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
Troy? Seriously? Troy?

That's even worse than the constant requests for Marshall and Buffalo on here.
05-03-2010 03:42 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #39
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 03:42 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Troy? Seriously? Troy?

That's even worse than the constant requests for Marshall and Buffalo on here.

Based on their market and budget Troy would be a stretch to C-USA... but to the SEC? That's some of the funniest stuff I've seen in quite some time.
05-03-2010 03:45 PM
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Bearcat 1984 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: A Big 12 breakup could hurt KU, KSU the most
(05-03-2010 09:19 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(05-03-2010 08:47 AM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  Follow the steps. If Missouri leaves, the Big 12 could likely remain viable with eleven teams or by adding TCU. If Missouri and either Nebraska or Colorado leave, it becomes more difficult and if all three are gone then its hard to see the Big 12 continuing to exist in any meaningful form.

Texas is the driving force here. If Texas is OK with whatever is left of the Big 12, the conference can probably keep going. But that’s not likely if the Big 12 is down to scraps, and if Texas bolts for the SEC or Pac-10, then KU and K-State are scrambling to save their own existence on the national scene.

A couple of quotes in this article lead me to beleive the author is not in tune with what is going on as he may think. Obviously if the Big XII is sufferign from small markets, adding a team in its existing market will not help. And we know the issues with Texas and the SeCheatum.

I agree. TCU can forget about an invitation to the Big 12 so long as Texas remains in the conference. If Texas (and TAMU) leaves, then TCU seems a likely addition.

I think the newspaper is being a little over-the-top to generate interest.

Texas or Oklahoma are each by themselves strong enough to anchor the Big 12. The departure of one would not cause the departure of the other.

As for the departure of Nebraska and Missouri - from a Texas standpoint - I don't think they'll be too bothered. Or Colorado.

Indications are that there is real resistance to expansion amongst certain members of the Pac 10. It may take a minor miracle just to add Colorado and Utah. I think they can do it, but my guess is that's where it stops.

So, if Colorado (and Utah) to the Pac 10;
and Nebraska and Missouri to the Big 10;
that leaves TX, TXAM, TXT, Baylor, OU, OkST, KU, KSST, and IAST.

meanwhile Pitt, Syracuse and Rutgers also go Big 10.

If the SEC expands, and if Texas wants, TX and TXAM go to the SEC.

If TX turns the SEC down.... do they look at Oklahoma? Or do they just say screw it and look east? Oklahoma and 3 ACC schools?

As noted, Texas rules the roost in the Big 12. In the SEC they would not rule the roost but they'd make a chunk more money. Is it enough money to make it worth it? In the Big 12 they or Oklahoma routinely win the BCS slot(s). In the SEC they would not have that surety.

So, I don't think Texas' departure is assured, but no one can really be surprised if they do.

If Texas leaves (w/ TXAM):
West: Oklahoma, OkSU, TXT, Baylor, Colorado State, Kansas State
East: Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Memphis, West Virginia/TCU

If Oklahoma leaves:
West: Texas, Baylor, Colorado State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech,
East: Texas A&M, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, West Virginia/Memphis

Really, even without Texas and TXAM there's no pressing need to add TCU. The state of TX is still covered with Texas Tech and Baylor.

If Texas and Oklahoma stay:
West: Baylor, Colorado State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech,
East: Cincinnati, Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

I don't know. A million combinations to choose from.

I don't think the sky is falling for the Big 12.

Even if both Texas and Oklahoma left with their shadows, the Big 12 would not just simply fold. Why would they do that? That's hyperbole. If you're Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Texas Tech and Baylor you keep all the basketball credits, for one, and you get yourselves some BCS schools: Cincinnati, Louisville, and West Virginia. Those 3 schools have accounted for all five of the Big East's preceding five years' BCS appearances. Add on Tier One Colorado State. Add on New Mexico. Add on TCU. Add on Memphis. You've got yourself a BCS conference once again.

West: Baylor, Colorado State, Kansas, Memphis, New Mexico, TCU,
East: Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Texas Tech, West Virginia
05-03-2010 10:33 PM
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