(11-09-2009 04:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:18 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I guess my point is that SOS isn't the end all be all determinant in the race between Cincy and TCU, at least with the voters. Right or wrong, as we saw with Iowa before they lost, style points matter to the voters. If for example, 3 win Illinois is leading late and Cincy gets a fortunate bounce to win, the voters will probably take that into account (perhaps too much so). Similarly, if TCU goes to Wyoming and struggles to win in the altitude and snow (perhaps our most difficult game, IMO), we'll lose some votes. The voters are reacting to more data points than just W/L.

Yep, voters do like style points, no doubt about it. Cincy will get more votes if it wins its remaining games impressively than if it wins like Iowa was winning, or how it won against UConn.

That is true to a point. But if Cincy eeks out a win over a top 10 bcs Pitt, that is more impressive than eeking out a win over a 4-4 Uconn. "Style points do matter". But it also varies depending on who you get style points over. In other words, Cincy is going to get alot more respect by eeking out a win over top 10, 8-1 Pitt, than TCU will get by beating 0-9 New Mexico by 50.

Urgh.. UCONN is a lot better team than you think. If UCONN is in the MWC this year, UCONN's record would be a lot better than 4-4. UCONN would probably be contending for the MWC championship right now. I thought Cincy won because their offense is simply unstoppable. Remember it took Pitt to win against UCONN in the final sec too.

I think the problem is voters are looking for ways to downplay Cincy. They are bias for SEC teams. I have no idea how good those SEC teams are, but I know FLA and Ala were both helped by SEC refs in their wins over ARK and LSU.

(11-09-2009 04:50 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 04:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:18 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I guess my point is that SOS isn't the end all be all determinant in the race between Cincy and TCU, at least with the voters. Right or wrong, as we saw with Iowa before they lost, style points matter to the voters. If for example, 3 win Illinois is leading late and Cincy gets a fortunate bounce to win, the voters will probably take that into account (perhaps too much so). Similarly, if TCU goes to Wyoming and struggles to win in the altitude and snow (perhaps our most difficult game, IMO), we'll lose some votes. The voters are reacting to more data points than just W/L.

Yep, voters do like style points, no doubt about it. Cincy will get more votes if it wins its remaining games impressively than if it wins like Iowa was winning, or how it won against UConn.

That is true to a point. But if Cincy eeks out a win over a top 10 bcs Pitt, that is more impressive than eeking out a win over a 4-4 Uconn. "Style points do matter". But it also varies depending on who you get style points over. In other words, Cincy is going to get alot more respect by eeking out a win over top 10, 8-1 Pitt, than TCU will get by beating 0-9 New Mexico by 50.

Urgh.. UCONN is a lot better team than you think. If UCONN is in the MWC this year, UCONN's record would be a lot better than 4-4. UCONN would probably be contending for the MWC championship right now. I thought Cincy won because their offense is simply unstoppable. Remember it took Pitt to win against UCONN in the final sec too.

No arguments from me. I have been saying this for the last several weeks that Uconn is better than their record shows. I think that Uconn is the best 4-4 team in history maybe. But at the end of the day, Uconns record is 4-4, which is not as impressive a win as an 8-1 Pitt. I wasnt tring to disparage Uconn, but just trying to make a point to Killer Frog and Quo.

(11-09-2009 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:18 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I guess my point is that SOS isn't the end all be all determinant in the race between Cincy and TCU, at least with the voters. Right or wrong, as we saw with Iowa before they lost, style points matter to the voters. If for example, 3 win Illinois is leading late and Cincy gets a fortunate bounce to win, the voters will probably take that into account (perhaps too much so). Similarly, if TCU goes to Wyoming and struggles to win in the altitude and snow (perhaps our most difficult game, IMO), we'll lose some votes. The voters are reacting to more data points than just W/L.

Yep, voters do like style points, no doubt about it. Cincy will get more votes if it wins its remaining games impressively than if it wins like Iowa was winning, or how it won against UConn.

I don't think UC has to win any game impressively, except the Illinois game. If they defeat WVU and Pitt, they will have beaten 2 top 25 teams, and that counts for much more than an impressive win over some nobody...

That said, I don't think UC will beat WVU AND Pitt. Until it happens, I'm still rooting for a WVU to win over UC on Friday night...

(11-09-2009 04:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:18 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I guess my point is that SOS isn't the end all be all determinant in the race between Cincy and TCU, at least with the voters. Right or wrong, as we saw with Iowa before they lost, style points matter to the voters. If for example, 3 win Illinois is leading late and Cincy gets a fortunate bounce to win, the voters will probably take that into account (perhaps too much so). Similarly, if TCU goes to Wyoming and struggles to win in the altitude and snow (perhaps our most difficult game, IMO), we'll lose some votes. The voters are reacting to more data points than just W/L.

Yep, voters do like style points, no doubt about it. Cincy will get more votes if it wins its remaining games impressively than if it wins like Iowa was winning, or how it won against UConn.

That is true to a point. But if Cincy eeks out a win over a top 10 bcs Pitt, that is more impressive than eeking out a win over a 4-4 Uconn. "Style points do matter". But it also varies depending on who you get style points over. In other words, Cincy is going to get alot more respect by eeking out a win over top 10, 8-1 Pitt, than TCU will get by beating 0-9 New Mexico by 50.

Yeah, I'd agreee on Pitt and WVU for Cincy and Utah for TCU- a close win probably doesn't hurt. But a strong, blowout win probably still could win a few votes, so I do think no matter who the opponent, MOV is still relevant.

TCU is at biggest risk for suffering a negative style point game with the Wyoming game. It's underappreciated how tough that place can be to play in late November- altitude, weather, remote, plus it is a set up for a let down after the Utah game. But they have no national respect so anything less than a blowout will hurt.

(11-09-2009 05:15 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 04:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 03:18 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I guess my point is that SOS isn't the end all be all determinant in the race between Cincy and TCU, at least with the voters. Right or wrong, as we saw with Iowa before they lost, style points matter to the voters. If for example, 3 win Illinois is leading late and Cincy gets a fortunate bounce to win, the voters will probably take that into account (perhaps too much so). Similarly, if TCU goes to Wyoming and struggles to win in the altitude and snow (perhaps our most difficult game, IMO), we'll lose some votes. The voters are reacting to more data points than just W/L.

Yep, voters do like style points, no doubt about it. Cincy will get more votes if it wins its remaining games impressively than if it wins like Iowa was winning, or how it won against UConn.

That is true to a point. But if Cincy eeks out a win over a top 10 bcs Pitt, that is more impressive than eeking out a win over a 4-4 Uconn. "Style points do matter". But it also varies depending on who you get style points over. In other words, Cincy is going to get alot more respect by eeking out a win over top 10, 8-1 Pitt, than TCU will get by beating 0-9 New Mexico by 50.

Yeah, I'd agreee on Pitt and WVU for Cincy and Utah for TCU- a close win probably doesn't hurt. But a strong, blowout win probably still could win a few votes, so I do think no matter who the opponent, MOV is still relevant.

TCU is at biggest risk for suffering a negative style point game with the Wyoming game. It's underappreciated how tough that place can be to play in late November- altitude, weather, remote, plus it is a set up for a let down after the Utah game. But they have no national respect so anything less than a blowout will hurt.

You think TCU has no national respect being ranked #4 in the bcs and ahead of an undefeated bcs program? I must say I disagree.

(11-09-2009 05:28 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  You think TCU has no national respect being ranked #4 in the bcs and ahead of an undefeated bcs program? I must say I disagree.

I meant Wyoming.

(11-09-2009 05:34 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 05:28 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  You think TCU has no national respect being ranked #4 in the bcs and ahead of an undefeated bcs program? I must say I disagree.

I meant Wyoming.

Ah, my mistake.

(11-09-2009 05:34 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 05:28 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  You think TCU has no national respect being ranked #4 in the bcs and ahead of an undefeated bcs program? I must say I disagree.

I meant Wyoming.

TCU is benefiting from UTAH's Sugar Bowl win last year. That being said, TCU vs. Cincy is splitting hair right now who is better. You can make an argument either way. TCU is certainly a good team.

This will all play out in the next few weeks. I personally don't think Texas is as good as their ranking. I don't think FLA or Bama should be clearly #1 or #3. Either way, it will be a popularity contest with SEC teams winning it every time.

It's a moot point, Cincinnati controls its own destiny as far as leaping over TCU. Cincinnati currently has 2 wins over BCS Top 25 teams (South Florida and Oregon State are ranked this week). As long as Cincinnati beats West Virginia, Pittsburgh and Illinois that will be enough juice to leap TCU, and possibly move up to #2 if there are some upsets ahead of us.

You can argue who is the better team all day. But until it's proven on the field, it's an irrelevant discussion...

(11-09-2009 05:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You can argue who is the better team all day. But until it's proven on the field, it's an irrelevant discussion...

96 hours until we find out we're better then WVU.
One at a time until we hit 12. Then we can worry about the 13th game.

(11-09-2009 07:54 PM)grubs Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 05:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You can argue who is the better team all day. But until it's proven on the field, it's an irrelevant discussion...

96 hours until we find out we're better then WVU.
One at a time until we hit 12. Then we can worry about the 13th game.

You got to get to 12 first. We'll see if you can pick up #10 on Friday...

(11-09-2009 08:21 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 07:54 PM)grubs Wrote:  96 hours until we find out we're better then WVU.
One at a time until we hit 12. Then we can worry about the 13th game.

You got to get to 12 first. We'll see if you can pick up #10 on Friday...

Do you think Gilyard will score quicker in this game then last year?
[/align]

As long as Cincinnati keeps winning they should blow by TCU.

This has probably already been said in this post but I have to say it again. To start off the season with no teams ranked and iwth three weeks left in the season to have two in the top 10 just goes to show how year in and year out the BE had defied conventional wisdom and has out performed our critics and predictions over and over again. Where people thought we'd be fighting to win our first BCS game at this stage we're once again looking for a shot at the national title- BCS wins are old news for the BE. Had Pitt beat NCST we'd be looking at two BCS bids this year.

Still lots of relevant and exciting FB ahead of us where most people said we'd be looking toward next year by now. Can't wait for USF/MIami or UC/Pitt. Gonna love watching Miami go down at the hands of the new BE- again. Looking forward to the post season as well. Congratulations to our ranked teams and to our conference.

(11-09-2009 10:45 PM)grubs Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 08:21 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 07:54 PM)grubs Wrote:  96 hours until we find out we're better then WVU.
One at a time until we hit 12. Then we can worry about the 13th game.

You got to get to 12 first. We'll see if you can pick up #10 on Friday...

Do you think Gilyard will score quicker in this game then last year?
[/align]

I doubt it. That one was really quick. That's going to be extremely difficult to top...

(11-10-2009 12:16 AM)CatsClaw Wrote:  As long as Cincinnati keeps winning they should blow by TCU.

You may end up being right, but consider this- I definitely would not have guessed that TCU would pass Cincy last week with us playing SDSU and you playing UConn, but we did. That is why I don't think it is a simple as that. Right or wrong, how the teams win matters to voters when they are trying to separate teams with no losses and relatively similar SOS. We have momentum in the polls and with Utah coming into town and several pundits hyping the Frogs, I think it could come down to "style" points.

Again, if UT doesn't lose, it is completely irrelevant.


Edit: Here's a blog from ESPNDallas that interviews Edwards who says basically the same thing:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/columns/colleg...st/4637125

Style points count, unless you're in the Big Tin or the SEC (and certain big name schools). All other conferences don't get such benefit...

(11-10-2009 09:29 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Style points count, unless you're in the Big Tin or the SEC (and certain big name schools). All other conferences don't get such benefit...

In the voter's defense, I will say that Iowa got docked pretty hard in the polls before their loss, though.

But you also forgot that Iowa isn't one of those special name schools, and they're kind of irrelevant in the Big Tin most of the time...