Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
so...you're basing your info on a "first-of its-kind study" (which means there's no way to confirm the findings) from a Philly (15th most dangerous city) medical school?
if you base a gun study in a place with lots of gun violence...guess what...i'm sure it's going to say you're MANY times more likely to be shot...wow...what a revelation...it also says...if you bring a gun to a fight...there is a higher chance of someone being shot...man, another shocker.
but it doesn't say what amount of the 6% of people with guns were trained to legally use their gun...few things are more dangerous than someone with a firearm who has no idea how to use it.
in other new...people driving cars twice as likely to be in an auto accident!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
People who are nowhere near cars have a zero percent chance of being in an auto accident.
As for the study, they took into consideration attacks where the victim did have a gun and did not have a gun. Of those who had guns, they were 4.5 times more likely to get shot. It was actually SAFER to not have a gun.
as i said...of those victims who had weapons...how many were legal? how many of those had permits? because i will 100% agree that someone who has a gun, and doesn't know how to use it properly, is VERY dangerous...
fact of the matter is the VAST majority of people carrying guns are illegally carrying them...they don't know squat about the gun...so yeah, what a shock that they are shot...most often with their own gun...
but what does that have to go with legal permit holders? that is not proof that armed permit holders are a danger to anyone.
Quote:Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault News Release
Those possessing gun in assault situation 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those not possessing one
PHILADELPHIA – In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
“This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous,” notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. “Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?”
What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.
so...you're basing your info on a "first-of its-kind study" (which means there's no way to confirm the findings) from a Philly (15th most dangerous city) medical school?
if you base a gun study in a place with lots of gun violence...guess what...i'm sure it's going to say you're MANY times more likely to be shot...wow...what a revelation...it also says...if you bring a gun to a fight...there is a higher chance of someone being shot...man, another shocker.
but it doesn't say what amount of the 6% of people with guns were trained to legally use their gun...few things are more dangerous than someone with a firearm who has no idea how to use it.
in other new...people driving cars twice as likely to be in an auto accident!
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
People who are nowhere near cars have a zero percent chance of being in an auto accident.
As for the study, they took into consideration attacks where the victim did have a gun and did not have a gun. Of those who had guns, they were 4.5 times more likely to get shot. It was actually SAFER to not have a gun.
as i said...of those victims who had weapons...how many were legal? how many of those had permits? because i will 100% agree that someone who has a gun, and doesn't know how to use it properly, is VERY dangerous...
fact of the matter is the VAST majority of people carrying guns are illegally carrying them...they don't know squat about the gun...so yeah, what a shock that they are shot...most often with their own gun...
but what does that have to go with legal permit holders? that is not proof that armed permit holders are a danger to anyone.
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
You are making unfounded assumptions about the gun owners in the study.
And legal permit holders have commited many crimes with their guns, including homicide. To think otherwise would be rather naive.
(10-23-2009 08:30 PM)UofMemphis Wrote: what's unfounded about my assumptions? nowhere does it say these people who had a firearm on them were legally carrying...that's a BIG distinction.
and i can think of 1 death in the last year from a permit holder...where is your proof they are killing people?
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
You make a claim with no evidence to back it up. Show proof that their study is flawed because "legal carrying" gun owners are safer and that they skewed the data because the study didn't count them.
As for crimes committed by permit holders, read the attachment.
OK, so according to that...14 people were killed in 2008 by permit holders...in 2008, there were 16,272 murders in the United States...so that means permit holders represent < .01% of US murders...you proved my point...no system is perfect, 14 people out of millions got through the system...but < .01% is not a problem.
I've never felt in danger at the UofM. I've been all over that campus at all hours of night. I was even on-campus when Taylor Bradford was murdered.
If someone has a problem at night with security we have three different groups that provide escorts. Campus police, campus security, and Tiger Patrol provide a way for students and faculty to travel at night.
The University of Memphis campus is very safe believe it not. I've had experience with several university police units and the one at the UofM is definitely the best.
The whole country is very safe believe it or not. I've walked around unarmed in cities like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Washington, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh. No one so much as bothered me.
And even in Memphis. What few people realize is that in the vast majority of cases, homicide victims were killed by people they knew--relatives or acquantences. There is very, very little random homicide.
(10-24-2009 09:11 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote: The whole country is very safe believe it or not. I've walked around unarmed in cities like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Washington, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh. No one so much as bothered me.
And even in Memphis. What few people realize is that in the vast majority of cases, homicide victims were killed by people they knew--relatives or acquantences. There is very, very little random homicide.
These gun-toters certainly are paranoid.
it's acquaintances...and what makes me paranoid, Greg?
i have no problem taking a stroll in any part, of any city...chances are no one will mess with me period...but should someone try...i'm prepared...that was one of those things they taught in the Boy Scouts and NROTC in High School...to be prepared.
look, Greg...a bunch of gun toting, paranoid, 2nd amendment folks!
no good could come from that, right?
(10-24-2009 08:52 PM)supertiger Wrote: I've never felt in danger at the UofM. I've been all over that campus at all hours of night. I was even on-campus when Taylor Bradford was murdered.
If someone has a problem at night with security we have three different groups that provide escorts. Campus police, campus security, and Tiger Patrol provide a way for students and faculty to travel at night.
The University of Memphis campus is very safe believe it not. I've had experience with several university police units and the one at the UofM is definitely the best.
the UofM has a very safe campus...but yet Taylor was murdered...Va Tech has a very safe campus...yet 32 were killed in a in a couple hours...Chickasaw Gardens is a very safe place...and a woman was raped and her son injured during a home invasion.
unfortunately bad things can happen at good places in this word...when you take guns away from law abiding citizens...you take away the last line in defense of ordinary people...
Go Tigers!!!
Drew
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2009 01:24 AM by UofMemphis.)
(10-25-2009 01:08 AM)UofMemphis Wrote: you proved < .01% of murders are committed by permit holders...i already knew that.
That was only a sampling, not all of them. You failed again.
And the "be prepared" argument is weak. In the highly unlikely event that your life is put in danger by an assailant, it would take the highly unlikely event that you would get the drop on your assailant and through show of force, convince him to stand down. Criminals don't usually give you the opportunity to draw.
The number of crimes prevented by gun carry permit holders is virtually insignificant. Even smaller than the <.01% that you keep talking about.
(10-15-2009 03:23 PM)Easterwood Wrote: They are actually doing saturations with the MPD and the campus security. They have shown a strong presence the last two weeks.
Doesn't seem to be working yet.
I have a son on campus, and I am very concerned. It isn't legal for the students on campus to arm themselves. They are sitting ducks.
Not on the campus anymore but got a friend there. Heard there was 9 armed robbers this semester alone. After that couple who was kidnapped from the apartments on highland(also shot and the female was gang raped by 4 guys) I left the school. Would love to return all they have to do is allow permit holders to carry guns on campus. Students are easy prey because the low life scum crooks know they arn't packing.
It seems like there are always a spate of armed robberies every year around the campus at the beginning of the school year. Fresh meat, I guess.
I wonder, do they do a crime preparedness section during Orientation? They ought to.
If they don't, already, at the beginning of the school year U of M and MPD should probably do a saturation of the area, including the part of Orange Mound north of Park between Semmes and Highland, and the Joffre/Buntyn Bungalow area east of Greer and South of Poplar until things calm down in mid October.
/
This crime on or around campus is disgusting
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