(08-14-2009 03:35 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....

You are correct. As a sun belt watcher, it is funny to watch this particular group of fans get there angst up about possible new members. (Especially the guy from the Mean Green)

This is really not about expansion for the SunBelt. This is about survival. The next round of conference shake ups will happen and the Sunbelt will get what is left after the trickle down.

At the same time the Big East and C-usa picks who they want, there will be a wave of FBS folks that will move up. Some of these that move up are already winning battles for recruits with Sun Belt teams and would only win more of them once they have equal scholarships.

Rather than having an elitist attitude, the lesser FBS schools should be doing their homework on the next group that jumps and in the SB's case making sure they are not left in the shambles with 8 football playing teams.

The shake up is coming but will the SB be well prepared?

The Sun Belt better be prepared to pick new members.

Getting "too big for our britches" is exactly the problem with expansion talk involving D-1AA teams.

I have a lot of respect for what both App. State and GSU have done in the D-1AA ranks, and I'm sure that if their athletics departments were dedicated to making the move up, they could be successful at the next level.

But that doesn't mean that they add anything to the conference. It's not a knock on them, just a financial reality.

With USA, we'll be at 10 teams and we'll already be skipping an SBC opponent every year. Adding one or two more teams doesn't help us avoid OOC scheduling problems... Because adding those teams won't give us another conference game. Many of the programs can't afford it, because they depend on guarantee games to fund their other athletic programs.

Going to 12 teams adds a conference championship that ultimately does nothing but guarantee that one of our best teams will have an additional loss going into bowl season. We're not going to get a good TV deal for it. We're not going to sell out a stadium if we hold it at a neutral site.

Adding members reduces conference revenues for existing conference members. We'd be surrendering money in the hopes that any expansion candidate would boost revenues elsewhere. And there's only one team that's been mentioned (more on that at the end) that does that.

No casual North Texas alum in the Dallas/Fort Worth area is going to buy a ticket because we're playing Georgia Southern. No ULM fan that isn't coming to games already is going to start because Appalachian State is coming to Monroe every few years.

Whatever either team brings to the table, it doesn't include DOLLARS.

And there's more to this conference than football. GSU basketball is in total meltdown. Under investigation for NCAA violations, fresh off an 8 win season and a coach resignation. Appalachian State is bringing in a new coach after suffering through a 13 win season, and the Mountaineers haven't seen the NCAA Tournament in 10 years. Neither helps our RPI, neither brings any nationally recognized basketball tradition... Both would bring down our RPI and hurt our chances at multiple bids on an annual basis. We have a very good thing growing in basketball, and any team that hurts that is a serious blow to probably (I'll defer to a more knowledgeable poster like arkstfan) our most profitable sport.

The only team I've seen mentioned here that I'd consider as an expansion candidate is Missouri State. They bring something financially tangible to the table IMMEDIATELY. They bring up our RPI, they have a good reputation with the NCAA Tournament selection committee, and they'd probably help us to a net-positive result in terms of dollars and cents right away. We'd help them by providing a home for top division football, they'd help us by strengthening basketball even further.

The argument that App. State or GSU might look more appealing than current conference members is irrelevant. The members of this conference all owe each other a lot. The reason that we have a Sun Belt that all these outside teams can feel entitled to membership in is because we've stuck together. North Texas turned down an invite to the WAC that would have probably caused the conference to implode (at least, in terms of top division football). Ditto for ULL and ASU- all three schools stayed firm and loyal when the WAC was playing hardball with each individually. If any of the three had gotten cold feet and defected, SBC football doesn't exist today in Divison 1-A. Troy, FAU, and FIU all accelerated their D-1A transitions to help keep the conference viable. All have suffered some growing pains because of that sacrifice.

As much as we may rip on each other, and as much as almost every school's fans would probably love to move up... All of us tend to support each other. Because we've all saved each other. Would I prefer to play against Texas State every year rather than Florida Atlantic, so that I could see more road games and so that North Texas could sell more tickets to visitors? Definitely. But I won't forget that there wouldn't be an SBC if it weren't for Florida Atlantic. And I'd never be in favor of kicking them (or anyone else that's stuck with us through the difficult years) out of the conference in favor of another school.

To the argument that App State or GSU might be a better potential football program than any unspecified current school... All I'll say is that all that potential didn't do jack **** for the Sun Belt back in the early 2000's. But ULM's presence did. Middle Tennessee's presence did. The teams that are here now allowed us to survive to this point, where many of us are thriving.

Appalachian State has a great deal of potential. So does Georgia State. So does Texas State. So does UT-San Antonio. If they do things the right way, they've all got the potential to succeed on this level.

But expansion doesn't offer anything to the conference as it stands today. Replacement is a different story. If we lose a school to C-USA or the WAC or for any other reason... Any of those schools could make a fantastic case to take their place. But spreading the money around further doesn't help anyone in the conference now.

(08-14-2009 04:32 PM)SunBelt Watcher Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 03:35 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....

You are correct. As a sun belt watcher, it is funny to watch this particular group of fans get there angst up about possible new members. (Especially the guy from the Mean Green)

This is really not about expansion for the SunBelt. This is about survival. The next round of conference shake ups will happen and the Sunbelt will get what is left after the trickle down.

At the same time the Big East and C-usa picks who they want, there will be a wave of FBS folks that will move up. Some of these that move up are already winning battles for recruits with Sun Belt teams and would only win more of them once they have equal scholarships.

Rather than having an elitist attitude, the lesser FBS schools should be doing their homework on the next group that jumps and in the SB's case making sure they are not left in the shambles with 8 football playing teams.

The shake up is coming but will the SB be well prepared?

The Sun Belt better be prepared to pick new members.

We've got 9 members now. In a few years, USA will bring us up to 10.

All we need is 8.

So even if there is a conference shakeup, and even if the SBC does get raided... We can lose two members and still maintain our standing with the NCAA. That's assuming that the shakeup doesn't leave any existing D-1A teams displaced and looking for a new home in the SBC.

If that happens, then the remaining conference members might reasonably consider adding 1-AA transition schools for football purposes.

But they still wouldn't need to in order to survive.

(08-14-2009 03:35 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....

Exactly, you can ask Manzano I am one of the most informed posters and rabid supporters of the Sun Belt on GSU message boards. However, just like the ignorant make statements about the "Sun Burnt / Sun Belch" on those boards there is a lot of ignorance about GSU over here. I am not knocking you guys for not knowing GSU's history but GSU is unique in that our growth potential is basically through the roof since we are in the relatively early stages of being a large university. There are very few schools in the country that have grown as fast as GSU has in the last twenty years in every aspect, from student pop, to endowment size etc etc or that has the potential grow as much as we can. We are not some long standing university that is just seeing minor growth spurt because our state got a little bigger and or richer. The state of GA's growth does not hurt and can hardly be matched as well but that is just one reason why we are growing so fast. GSU will be a 25K+ institution very soon. With that comes millions more in student support, numerous more degrees and doctorate programs but more importantly that means our alumni base is growing faster than most and is becoming much more diversified. Our older alumni as of today are mainly medium incoming earning education folks who could probably care less about football but that is changing every day. So not only are we growing and putting out more alumni our alumna's median income and interest in football is growing at a faster rate than most other growing schools as well. We are not just recycling the same demo of alumni. We crank out more business majors than any other degree today. Outside of FAU and FIU, GSU has just a bright a future as any Sun Belt school. What other school in the Sun Belt is going to add that many students in such a short time frame? What Sun Belt schools has less FBS competition than GSU would have? What other schools is replacing thousand of old teachers with business professional as fast as we are? What other state has seen the growth GA has the last few decades?
As far as instate FBS schools GA Tech is more of a national engineering school and most kids do not want to go there unless they want to be engineers and of course UGA is most kids first choice but GSU is starting to break out of the back up school slot and is quickly becoming many kids first choice. That would only increase with a jump up as well. As far as GA State goes it is as of today mainly a commuter school with a lot of non traditional students and ZERO campus life. Football may help change that though.
Also while the media market is a big deal the city of Atlanta itself sucks in every way possible way. Besides nearly half of our students come from the ATL and about half of our alumni reside their as well. Bottom line is we are well followed and represented in the ATL metro market.
GA also over produces DIV I talent per capita compared to other states as well and only has two FBS programs with a population that dwarfs most southern states with three or more FBS programs. While the FBS moniker alone will win you recruits often we already recruit against most Sun Belt schools and win some just like you win SOME against the big boys for various reasons. Even our own super conservative study says getting talent will not be one of GSU's problems in moving up.
While FCS success does not always translate into FBS success what other school even comes close to our FCS success especially from starting a football team from scratch just over 25 years ago? It is just at a different level than being a one hit wonder or making the playoffs a few times.

I like the Sun Belt because it is growing and has come a long way since 2001 but to say adding a school like GSU would not help is a little out there. The GSU of today is not quite ready to jump up but it will not be long especially if we get some real leadership like GSU alumn Scott Farmer was at Troy. Some of you have a much brighter perception of your conference than what is deserved at this point and are starting to sound a little like the idiot BCS fans out there. TODAY you are a lot closer to the FCS than to the BCS level of play. Having said that I know the Sun Belt will continue to improve and maybe even catch CUSA soon and when the time comes I hope GSU gets an invite to join.

(08-14-2009 04:32 PM)SunBelt Watcher Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 03:35 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....

You are correct. As a sun belt watcher, it is funny to watch this particular group of fans get there angst up about possible new members. (Especially the guy from the Mean Green)

This is really not about expansion for the SunBelt. This is about survival. The next round of conference shake ups will happen and the Sunbelt will get what is left after the trickle down.

At the same time the Big East and C-usa picks who they want, there will be a wave of FBS folks that will move up. Some of these that move up are already winning battles for recruits with Sun Belt teams and would only win more of them once they have equal scholarships.

Rather than having an elitist attitude, the lesser FBS schools should be doing their homework on the next group that jumps and in the SB's case making sure they are not left in the shambles with 8 football playing teams.

The shake up is coming but will the SB be well prepared?

The Sun Belt better be prepared to pick new members.

I don't think anyone is saying we're too good for GA Southern, GA State, Appy State, Texas State, UTSA...the list goes on.

First of all what does it matter what we think? Even if it is there is an elitist attitude(I don't think there is) what does it matter? We(as fans) don't need to research anyone. I'm sure that the conference brass and each institutions athletic director are doing their due diligence to prepare for the next shake up. It doesn't even remotely matter what I, or any other SBC fan, thinks about potential new members.

In regards to what most are saying, it's just like I said, if C-USA were to lose three members to a Big East raid that would drop them to 9, in the scenario in which it's ECU, UCF and Memphis I really think we have as good a chance of raiding the remaining members of C-USA as they do of raiding us. Put yourself in the shoes of Southern Miss, UAB, Tulane, or Marshall. Down to 9 members, they'd be playing everyone every year. Marshall would be on an absolute island with their closest game being 530 miles to UAB and the fact they'd have to go to the Texas/Oklahoma two times one year and three times the next with 5 schools between the two states, Marshall would want out. UAB/USM/Tulane are in better position than Marshall with their proximity to each other, but it would definitely hurt them. Tulane the least of which considering they're already in the west, but UAB and USM especially, they lose a trip to Florida and a close trip to Memphis and they'd be in the same boat going to Texas/Oklahoma twice one year and three the next. Personally I think we would have a good chance at taking Southern Miss and UAB. At that point C-USA would be down to 7 and looking for at least one member...La Tech? They could take La Tech to get to 8 at that point perhaps they see if North Texas would be interested, if UNT wants to leave that drops us back to 11, but without Texas in our footprint I wouldn't be too upset about picking up Marshall which of course would drop C-USA back to 8, then perhaps they look to a Texas State or UTSA, or perhaps instead of Marshall, we then look at Appy St, GA Southern, etc. Of course if the raided C-USA were to look to La Tech and Boise State were to make their oft rumored move to the MWC, that would leave the WAC at 7 and send them looking for new members as well.

My attitude towards not just settling for picking up Appy and GSU(or whomever) has nothing to do with thinking that we're too good for anyone, on the contrary, I think both would be good additions, I just think that that Southern Miss(for sure) and another team already established in the FBS would be better.

The point is this, there is likely going to be a shakeup coming soon. It may end up being very small like Big East going to 9 in football or Big 11 going to 12, or it could be as big as the huge mess I drew out just a moment ago. No one really knows, but IMO, just resigning ourselves to taking two current FCS schools is not preparing ourselves for success, it's preparing ourselves for more of the same(slow steady growth, nothing wrong with that, but we can hope for more, can't we?). In the best case scenario for the conference staying intact(I know there are schools in the SBC with Big East aspirations, but taking those out of consideration)we keep our current membership(including the incoming USA) and add Southern Miss and another FBS school after the hypothetical Big East raid of C-USA. At that point our 12 team conference would be much better than the MAC, much better than the WAC if they were to lose Boise to MWC and La Tech to a post raid C-USA(or even potentially as our twelfth member) and depending on how C-USA could realign themselves, we could potentially be as good or better than them after realignment. We could be talking about potentially the eighth best conference in the country. Now I don't disagree that we should know who is out there in the FCS and could potentially step in and contribute, but as long as we're speculating in pointless off-season threads there's nothing wrong with speculating for the best case scenario.

(08-14-2009 05:20 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 03:35 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....

Exactly, you can ask Manzano I am won of the most informed posters and rabid supporters of the Sun Belt on GSU message boards. However, just like the ignorant make statements about the "Sun Burnt / Sun Belch" on those boards there is a lot of ignorance about GSU over here. I am not knocking you guys for not knowing GSU's history but GSU is unique in that our growth potential is basically through the roof since we are in the relatively early stages of being a large university. There are very few schools in the country that have grown as fast as GSU has in the last twenty years in every aspect, from student pop, to endowment size etc etc or that has the potential grow as much as we can. We are not some long standing university that is just seeing minor growth spurt because our state got a little bigger and or richer. The state of GA's growth does not hurt and can hardly be matched as well but that is just one reason why we are growing so fast. GSU will be a 25K+ institution very soon. With that comes millions more in student support, numerous more degrees and doctorate programs but more importantly that means our alumni base is growing faster than most and is becoming much more diversified. Our older alumni as of today are mainly medium incoming earning education folks who could probably care less about football but that is changing every day. So not only are we growing and putting out more alumni our alumna's median income and interest in football is growing at a faster rate than most other growing schools as well. We are not just recycling the same demo of alumni. We crank out more business majors than any other today. Outside of FAU and FIU, GSU has just a bright a future as any Sun Belt school. What other school in the Sun Belt is going to add that many students in such a short time frame? What Sun Belt schools has less FBS competition than GSU would have? What other schools is replacing thousand of old teachers with business professional as fast as we are? What other state has seen the growth GA has the last few decades?
As far as instate FBS schools GA Tech is more of a national engineering school and most kids do not want to go there unless they want to be engineers and of course UGA is most kids first choice but GSU is starting to break out of the back up school slot and is quickly becoming many kids first choice. That would only increase with a jump up as well. As far as GA State goes it is as of today mainly a commuter school with a lot of non traditional students and ZERO campus life. Football may help change that though.
Also while the media market is a big deal the city of Atlanta itself sucks in every way possible way. Besides nearly half of our students come from the ATL and about half of our alumni reside their as well. Bottom line is we are well followed and represented in the ATL metro market.
GA also over produce DIV I talent per capita compared to other states as well and only have two FBS programs with a population that dwarfs most southern states with three or more FBS programs in the south. While the FBS moniker alone will win you recruits often we already recruit against most Sun Belt schools and win some just like you win SOME against the big boys for various reasons. Even our own study says getting talent will not be one of GSU's problems in moving up.
While FCS success does not always translate into FBS success what other school even comes close to our FCS success especially from starting a football team from scratch just over 25 years ago? It is just at a different level than being a one hit wonder or making the playoffs a few times.

I like the Sun Belt because it is growing and has come a long way since 2001 but to say adding a school like GSU would not help is a little out there. The GSU of today is not quite ready to jump up but it will not be long especially if we get some real leadership like GSU alumn Scott Farmer was a Troy. Some of you have a much brighter perception of your conference than what is deserved at this point and are starting to sound a little like the idiot BCS fans out there. TODAY you are a lot closer to the FCS than to the BCS level of play. Having said that I know the Sun Belt will continue to improve and maybe even catch CUSA soon and when the time comes I hope GSU gets an invite to join.

I spent 6 years living and working in Atlanta, and I've got a lot of friends who passed through Statesboro for school. As I said in one of my earlier post, I've got a lot of respect for what GSU has accomplished and the football tradition you guys have built.

As for Georgia State, I've said every time their name gets mentioned that they don't bring much of anything to the table. If the SBC were to add a Georgia team, hands down, no brainer decision, GSU would be the choice.

But as much respect as I have for GSU... I don't see them bringing as much to the table as they'd eat in terms of revenue sharing. And ultimately, given that we're one of the more stable non-BCS conferences... Money is (and rightfully should be) the deciding factor in expansion for the SBC.

Again... I have a lot of respect for GSU (and App. State), but the question here is whether the SBC should expand to bring them in. And right now, it doesn't look like that decision would make any financial sense.

I do always think it's funny when some FCS fan comes in and asks us what we think of them as a potential new member and we don't fall all over ourselves at the idea, give them tons of credit for what they've done in FCS and basically hold their hands and sing kumbaya, all of the sudden we're being no better than the BCS idiots. You know what screw all of you. We didn't come to you asking you if you wanted in, you came to us, remember? So don't be upset if you don't like what you hear, or don't ask for our opinion. If the time comes and we look for two new members out of the FCS ranks, there are about a half dozen or so schools that deserve a good hard look so don't think that it's just some forgone conclusion or that we're dumb for possibly not wanting you. I'm sorry, but just because most of us came from the FCS ranks recently doesn't mean anything, we worked hard to get where we are and you're going to have to work just as hard if not harder to join us, sorry friends, them's the breaks.

(08-14-2009 05:01 PM)thetastygreek Wrote:  Getting "too big for our britches" is exactly the problem with expansion talk involving D-1AA teams.

I have a lot of respect for what both App. State and GSU have done in the D-1AA ranks, and I'm sure that if their athletics departments were dedicated to making the move up, they could be successful at the next level.

But that doesn't mean that they add anything to the conference. It's not a knock on them, just a financial reality.

With USA, we'll be at 10 teams and we'll already be skipping an SBC opponent every year. Adding one or two more teams doesn't help us avoid OOC scheduling problems... Because adding those teams won't give us another conference game. Many of the programs can't afford it, because they depend on guarantee games to fund their other athletic programs.

Going to 12 teams adds a conference championship that ultimately does nothing but guarantee that one of our best teams will have an additional loss going into bowl season. We're not going to get a good TV deal for it. We're not going to sell out a stadium if we hold it at a neutral site.

Adding members reduces conference revenues for existing conference members. We'd be surrendering money in the hopes that any expansion candidate would boost revenues elsewhere. And there's only one team that's been mentioned (more on that at the end) that does that.

No casual North Texas alum in the Dallas/Fort Worth area is going to buy a ticket because we're playing Georgia Southern. No ULM fan that isn't coming to games already is going to start because Appalachian State is coming to Monroe every few years.

Whatever either team brings to the table, it doesn't include DOLLARS.

And there's more to this conference than football. GSU basketball is in total meltdown. Under investigation for NCAA violations, fresh off an 8 win season and a coach resignation. Appalachian State is bringing in a new coach after suffering through a 13 win season, and the Mountaineers haven't seen the NCAA Tournament in 10 years. Neither helps our RPI, neither brings any nationally recognized basketball tradition... Both would bring down our RPI and hurt our chances at multiple bids on an annual basis. We have a very good thing growing in basketball, and any team that hurts that is a serious blow to probably (I'll defer to a more knowledgeable poster like arkstfan) our most profitable sport.

The only team I've seen mentioned here that I'd consider as an expansion candidate is Missouri State. They bring something financially tangible to the table IMMEDIATELY. They bring up our RPI, they have a good reputation with the NCAA Tournament selection committee, and they'd probably help us to a net-positive result in terms of dollars and cents right away. We'd help them by providing a home for top division football, they'd help us by strengthening basketball even further.

The argument that App. State or GSU might look more appealing than current conference members is irrelevant. The members of this conference all owe each other a lot. The reason that we have a Sun Belt that all these outside teams can feel entitled to membership in is because we've stuck together. North Texas turned down an invite to the WAC that would have probably caused the conference to implode (at least, in terms of top division football). Ditto for ULL and ASU- all three schools stayed firm and loyal when the WAC was playing hardball with each individually. If any of the three had gotten cold feet and defected, SBC football doesn't exist today in Divison 1-A. Troy, FAU, and FIU all accelerated their D-1A transitions to help keep the conference viable. All have suffered some growing pains because of that sacrifice.

As much as we may rip on each other, and as much as almost every school's fans would probably love to move up... All of us tend to support each other. Because we've all saved each other. Would I prefer to play against Texas State every year rather than Florida Atlantic, so that I could see more road games and so that North Texas could sell more tickets to visitors? Definitely. But I won't forget that there wouldn't be an SBC if it weren't for Florida Atlantic. And I'd never be in favor of kicking them (or anyone else that's stuck with us through the difficult years) out of the conference in favor of another school.

To the argument that App State or GSU might be a better potential football program than any unspecified current school... All I'll say is that all that potential didn't do jack **** for the Sun Belt back in the early 2000's. But ULM's presence did. Middle Tennessee's presence did. The teams that are here now allowed us to survive to this point, where many of us are thriving.

Appalachian State has a great deal of potential. So does Georgia State. So does Texas State. So does UT-San Antonio. If they do things the right way, they've all got the potential to succeed on this level.

But expansion doesn't offer anything to the conference as it stands today. Replacement is a different story. If we lose a school to C-USA or the WAC or for any other reason... Any of those schools could make a fantastic case to take their place. But spreading the money around further doesn't help anyone in the conference now.

You are correct; we all have each other's backs and we have stuck together during some really difficult times. I have been around a long time (OK, I am just over 30 . . . ) and personally I want the Mean Green, the Cajuns, and the Red Wolves to remain in the same conference. We all like to rag on each other, but we also know that we are all in this together.

Very pro SBC post; very good read . . .

(08-14-2009 05:20 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 03:35 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....

Exactly, you can ask Manzano I am one of the most informed posters and rabid supporters of the Sun Belt on GSU message boards. However, just like the ignorant make statements about the "Sun Burnt / Sun Belch" on those boards there is a lot of ignorance about GSU over here. I am not knocking you guys for not knowing GSU's history but GSU is unique in that our growth potential is basically through the roof since we are in the relatively early stages of being a large university. There are very few schools in the country that have grown as fast as GSU has in the last twenty years in every aspect, from student pop, to endowment size etc etc or that has the potential grow as much as we can. We are not some long standing university that is just seeing minor growth spurt because our state got a little bigger and or richer. The state of GA's growth does not hurt and can hardly be matched as well but that is just one reason why we are growing so fast. GSU will be a 25K+ institution very soon. With that comes millions more in student support, numerous more degrees and doctorate programs but more importantly that means our alumni base is growing faster than most and is becoming much more diversified. Our older alumni as of today are mainly medium incoming earning education folks who could probably care less about football but that is changing every day. So not only are we growing and putting out more alumni our alumna's median income and interest in football is growing at a faster rate than most other growing schools as well. We are not just recycling the same demo of alumni. We crank out more business majors than any other degree today. Outside of FAU and FIU, GSU has just a bright a future as any Sun Belt school. What other school in the Sun Belt is going to add that many students in such a short time frame? What Sun Belt schools has less FBS competition than GSU would have? What other schools is replacing thousand of old teachers with business professional as fast as we are? What other state has seen the growth GA has the last few decades?
As far as instate FBS schools GA Tech is more of a national engineering school and most kids do not want to go there unless they want to be engineers and of course UGA is most kids first choice but GSU is starting to break out of the back up school slot and is quickly becoming many kids first choice. That would only increase with a jump up as well. As far as GA State goes it is as of today mainly a commuter school with a lot of non traditional students and ZERO campus life. Football may help change that though.
Also while the media market is a big deal the city of Atlanta itself sucks in every way possible way. Besides nearly half of our students come from the ATL and about half of our alumni reside their as well. Bottom line is we are well followed and represented in the ATL metro market.
GA also over produces DIV I talent per capita compared to other states as well and only has two FBS programs with a population that dwarfs most southern states with three or more FBS programs. While the FBS moniker alone will win you recruits often we already recruit against most Sun Belt schools and win some just like you win SOME against the big boys for various reasons. Even our own super conservative study says getting talent will not be one of GSU's problems in moving up.
While FCS success does not always translate into FBS success what other school even comes close to our FCS success especially from starting a football team from scratch just over 25 years ago? It is just at a different level than being a one hit wonder or making the playoffs a few times.

I like the Sun Belt because it is growing and has come a long way since 2001 but to say adding a school like GSU would not help is a little out there. The GSU of today is not quite ready to jump up but it will not be long especially if we get some real leadership like GSU alumn Scott Farmer was at Troy. Some of you have a much brighter perception of your conference than what is deserved at this point and are starting to sound a little like the idiot BCS fans out there. TODAY you are a lot closer to the FCS than to the BCS level of play. Having said that I know the Sun Belt will continue to improve and maybe even catch CUSA soon and when the time comes I hope GSU gets an invite to join.

Yes, you are a strong supporter of the SBC and it is good to get your input in this thread. This guy is pro-SBC all the way; good guy and good GSU and SBC fan. He is a strong proponent of the SBC on the GSU Boards; he has earned my respect.

Personally, I like to get to know fans from other schools and I want to hear what you have to say.

Welcome to the Board . . .

I would wait to see what happens in Charlotte & Georgia State before I would take AppSt. You would get two big markets with potential. Charlotte is right on the NC/SC border. The Sunbelt would have just about all of the southeasten US covered. If ECU didn't make the cut for Big East expansion and CUSA decided to continue is move to the southwest for replacements for Memphis & UCF, I could see ECU looking hard at the Sunbelt. Marshall would likely be interested as well.

Good point. Whenever one of the orginal football schools leave, it will be a sad day (for me, at least).

I can rag on the GRunts all day long, and they can rag on us, but I'll take up for them if some outsider bashes 'em.

SBC fans tend to stick up for each other moreso than most conference mates.

(08-14-2009 05:38 PM)ManzanoWolf Wrote:  You are correct; we all have each other's backs and we have stuck together during some really difficult times. I have been around a long time (OK, I am just over 30 . . . ) and personally I want the Mean Green, the Cajuns, and the Red Wolves to remain in the same conference. We all like to rag on each other, but we also know that we are all in this together.

Very pro SBC post; very good read . . .

(08-14-2009 09:41 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 08:14 AM)SidSouth Wrote:  There are some strong opinions in the Mobile/south Alabama area that USA would be better suited to wait and see what plays out with conference realignments before jumping into a conference and the thinking is that South may be better suited in C-USA a with natural rivals in USM, UAB, Tulane, Memphis, etc. That is an option that is on the minds of some very influential supporters. Who knows what the future will bring?

My advice to them is to go for it as an independent and see what comes along. Of course the chances of USA meeting FBS criteria without the scheduling assistance of the Sun Belt are virtually non-existent.

Obviously fans of every non-BCS conference school have dreams and designs of moving up the ladder. USA is no different. That being said, we also have no significant advantage aver anyone else in the SBC, and in some cases, less of a resume than others. We, the lone founding,continous member of the conference that remains, are grateful for the opportunity that the Sun Belt gives us to establish football. Believe me, from the administration to all the significant boosters, our only goal at this time is establishing a competitive Sun Belt program and helping to improve the conference.

i'm in favor of this package. i like both programs and would love to have them on board. but, it probably is not in our best interst. the UNT fans are correct, we need a balanced east/west format. Texas State and UTSA would be better for what we need to be.

Lot of dellusion on the I-AA board about this subject.

(08-14-2009 05:37 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I do always think it's funny when some FCS fan comes in and asks us what we think of them as a potential new member and we don't fall all over ourselves at the idea, give them tons of credit for what they've done in FCS and basically hold their hands and sing kumbaya, all of the sudden we're being no better than the BCS idiots. You know what screw all of you. We didn't come to you asking you if you wanted in, you came to us, remember? So don't be upset if you don't like what you hear, or don't ask for our opinion. If the time comes and we look for two new members out of the FCS ranks, there are about a half dozen or so schools that deserve a good hard look so don't think that it's just some forgone conclusion or that we're dumb for possibly not wanting you. I'm sorry, but just because most of us came from the FCS ranks recently doesn't mean anything, we worked hard to get where we are and you're going to have to work just as hard if not harder to join us, sorry friends, them's the breaks.

I did not say you were no better than BCS idiots just saying some of the comments sounded like some of the stuff they spew when talking about non BCS schools like the Sun Belt. Lets not twist words. Also I was not asking for a hand out or special treatment join the Sun Belt and trust me as fast as GSU continues to grow the numbers we do no allready match most Sun Belt teams in like attendance will be there soon with or without a plan in motion to jump. I think if we can start a football team from scratch and accomplish what we have so far I am sure meeting entry level requirements will not be a problem especially when we get a real AD and not a glorified risk adverse accountant at the helm. I don't see how many of the current Sun Belt schools make a huge contribution financially but they still were added and are you saying any new members need to make up for poorly run current members by raising the bar? Like I said I respect the Sun Belt and the teams from the FCS that jumped up and did not settle for the status quo or settle for whooping a bunch of private schools over and over again but I am just saying intentionally or not some of the comments make it sound like you guys are right behind the SEC or something close to it and my post was merely and attempt to enlighten folks on the difference between a schools who are potential candidates and GSU nothing more.

(08-14-2009 06:03 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Good point. Whenever one of the orginal football schools leave, it will be a sad day (for me, at least).

I can rag on the GRunts all day long, and they can rag on us, but I'll take up for them if some outsider bashes 'em.

SBC fans tend to stick up for each other moreso than most conference mates.

(08-14-2009 05:38 PM)ManzanoWolf Wrote:  You are correct; we all have each other's backs and we have stuck together during some really difficult times. I have been around a long time (OK, I am just over 30 . . . ) and personally I want the Mean Green, the Cajuns, and the Red Wolves to remain in the same conference. We all like to rag on each other, but we also know that we are all in this together.

Very pro SBC post; very good read . . .

But only football playing SB members? What if UALR wanted to start a program? Would we get the same respect or would people want us out? What do ya'll think of UALR football joining in?

(08-14-2009 10:34 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Lot of dellusion on the I-AA board about this subject.

yes there is, but you can't really blame them. A lot of bitterness and defensiveness in reaction to 1aa being a shell of what it once was. I'm sure the idea of two of the top remaining 1aa programs bolting for 1A is cause for alarm.

I think Georgia Southern and Appalachian State could be very competitive, very quickly in Football and I think that scares some. But the question really is in regards to expansion, what do prospective programs bring to the conference that economically justifies Sun Belt conference expansion? I don't know that there is any combination of the usual suspects that crosses that thresh hold. I'm not sure there is any non-AQ school in the SE or SW that does that either. Nothing against Georgia Southern or App State at all here.

IF expansion ever does comes (rather than a more desirable, imo, geographical alignment of c-usa and the Sun Belt), I'd rather see those two in the Sun Belt than any other candidates that have mentioned on this board, though I do view Missouri State favorably as well.

I wouldn't mind seeing Appalachian State and Georgia Southern in the Sun Belt at some point in the future if it's still a good option. Good programs traditionally and good fanbases.

(08-14-2009 10:34 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Lot of dellusion on the I-AA board about this subject.

Well, just remember that Georgia Southern in a fast growing school in a fast growing state and will have 25,000 undergrad students on campus within a decade. Atlanta is the largest city and business center of the South and only so many can go to UGA as they have capped their enrollment for the most part. 40% of Georgia Southern's enrollment is from Atlanta and GSU will soon pass schools such as Auburn and Alabama in enrollment and average freshman SAT.....GSU is already larger than schools such as Clemson, S Miss, Miss, Miss St and much of the Sunbelt. Savannah which is 50 miles from the campus is a booming international port city that will also experience significant growth over the next 20 years. Throw in the fact that GSU knows how to get the job done on the field better than any football program in FCS and FBS over the past 25 years and you have a nice combination. 6 national titles and 8 title appearances in a 17 year period in a playoff format is unprecedented.....There is no doubt that the job can get done on the field. With the significant growth expected the recent feasability study estimated that the average attendance in 2015 if GSU is in the SB would be 23-24k. The SB should be glad to get GSU so that the recruiting talent is at least kept in the conference. If GSU joins the new proposed conference of GA, NC, VA, DE teams then much of the talent in GA that teams such as Troy and MTSU and other CUSA teams tap into will now be going to GSU and Ga State. Its amazing when you look at rosters in the SB, CUSA, SEC, ACC and see how many players from GA are on each of the teams. With the likelyhood of two new FBS teams within the decade that will change.

Clearly GSU has more to offer than some current SB schools, but not as much as others. It seems that in some people's minds in order to add a new member, the team has to have more to offer than all the current teams and they cannot hurt any current team's recruiting. If that is the standard, the SB will never be adding any new members.

Nothing dellusional about that.

(08-14-2009 10:34 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Lot of dellusion on the I-AA board about this subject.

That is understandable as many of us were delusional as well when we were 1-AA/FCS powers. It is easy to think your team can just walk right in and compete with the established FBS teams; it is another thing to actually do it . . .