Pitt please come up with something new, anything new if you want me to bother to respond. Keep spinning, maybe your fiction will become "fact" for those on the board who don't know any better. However you of all people should know that when post you something on the internet it never goes away no matter how much you try and claim you never said it later, I thought thedoctor had proven that point to you not so long ago.

R

It is true I have complained about Bartows apparent love of zone...but I also praise his successes. I see things as they are instead of leaning blindly to one side.

I think he has recruited well in spite of what has happened here. If you throw out one or two games from two years ago he had a very solid defensive team. Honestly...and I'm not sure why this is....but Bartow seems to be hit and miss. One year he will have a team that has a great attitude and plays hard nosed defense. The next season they will grossly underachieve for one reason or another. Thus he gets an "okay" rating in the opinion poll. It's quite simple really. Rod, your problem is that the only thing you seem to remember from two years ago is that Belmont game. True it was pathetic and there is no way of hiding that but it wasn't indicative of the entire year. That is why Bartow didn't get the rating that you so want him to receive.

Where is the "new" in creating a poll on Murry Bartow?

What did I write up there that is fiction and not fact?

You're on the ropes, pal.

Come into the light, really Rod. COME INTO THE LIGHT!

And that Belmont game was pathetic. I think it was the worst loss in ETSU history.

However, perhaps it was all for the best the Bucs lost by 27. ETSU wasn't winning that game. Not if they had another coach for the game.

So in losing the way they did, rather than, say, single digits, the bad taste was left in enough people's mouth to question the direction of the Bucs.

Quote:I must say I am surprised with all the He is a okay bench coach votes so far. I guess I am the only one who remembers all the blown halftime and later leads. The way Bird[sic] and others out coach him on a regular basis. The awful showings we had in the A-Sun tournament in our gym. The lack of defense exp againist the 3pter, how many players have had career games againist us? The fact we have no offense sets in the half court. I gotta say your definition of "okay" and mine is miles apart.

I gotta agree with shaw here again. Do you posters have that short a memory? I won't go into a full litany of his sins, other than to remind you all about how he REFUSED to clamp down on Tim Smith when he was trying to go 1-on-4 over and over again. ("Timmy's my man.") And to remind you all that he most likely ran Jackson off by not playing him. I detailed how in Asheville, he tried to put Jackson in with about 4 minutes left in the game, but the clock just kept running, and he wouldn't call a time out or anything to let him get in. Jackson had this look of disgust on his face - as did I. Also, either he and/or Lee Morrow must take some of the blame for Nuckles being hurt because they made the decision to try and pack too much weight on him. We don't know what happened with Twilley, but we *do* know he really didn't let Tirade have a chance after Eddie D. left. As discussed on here previously, the number of defections has been higher than normal attrition. But, as far as being a bench coach, the blowing of literally countless LARGE leads, habitually, shows he's getting out-coached almost every game. We're still waiting on an inbounds play. We're still waiting on offensive sets. We're still waiting on someone since Oatman who could make an entry pass (Oatman's greatest asset). We'll ALWAYS be waiting on transition defense, it seems. The debacle in the ASun tournament in 2006 when nobody defended the inbounds pass, despite Smith's frantic attempts to do something about it, resulting in yet one more of those examples of salvaging a loss from an almost sure win. (See link for this story at the bottom in case you all have forgotten.) Look at how successful the 1-3-1 trap was with Eddie D., and contrast that to it's much inferior effectiveness under Murry. Look at how long it took him to wake up this last season to how much of an asset Hamlin was. I think we win about 2 or 3 more games during the season if he had allowed Hamlin some more PT earlier. I think in general his substitution pattern leaves a lot to be desired, and he said so himself in an interview last year. (We've gotta find a way to get more playing time for these guys....") I think that's a lot of what drives players to leave. Yes, I could go on and on. But the bottom line is he has repeatedly found ways to lose games that were well in hand, and *almost* lost others that were salvaged at the last minute. With the superior talent ETSU has had since his arrival, they should have won the league every year. NOBODY has argued, not even the other team's coaches, that we've had the best talent every single year. At least the best athletic ability. The vast majority of the other teams in this league play SMARTER than we do. Yes, they're mostly private schools, with likely higher SAT scores for their basketball players (in general), but poor preparation in practice is what causes poor decision-making at crunch time in games. You all KNOW this is true. That's coaching. Also, as Rod has said many times, most players who've come through ETSU since his arrival don't progress in their time here. Strong probably did. Reed probably did a small amount. Sneed certainly did, but he did it mostly with just dang hard work. But one just doesn't see the progression that should be expected. That's coaching, too, or lack thereof. Enough said.........

G-W stuns ETSU in ASun tournament game

Let's say that everything in that above post is true.

I have my own differences with it. I feel trying to blame coaches for injuries is usually a bit of a witch hunt, for instance.

And I think any player from Pittsburgh who comes down here would go back if he had the chance (see A.J. Jackson). But regardless.

The bottom line then comes to this-

ASSUMING MURRY BARTOW SUCKS- what makes you think-

A- David Mullins and Co. will hire a suitable replacement?

B- Said new coach will have more contacts to raise money for his program than a guy who has been here for five years (assuming the ETSU financial model doesn't change)? I think it is more important to have a guy who can raise money than to witch hunt a guy for not reeling in Tim Smith when Bartow's predecessor couldn't, either.

C- What makes you think that ETSU will fire any coaches now after they kept on Tony Skole after this last year?

D- Don't you think it would be pointing the finger at the wrong man if you fired Bartow for the demise of ETSU basketball?

Bartow didn't get this program removed from the So Con. Bartow didn't sabatoge his own arena. Bartow hasn't asked for his program to be deemphasized for country club sports and soccer. Bartow hasn't signed off on the construction of soccer and softball stadiums before a new arena is built.

And you want those people to hire a new coach because you have a difference of opinion with Bartow over whether or not Greg Hamlin's talents are best served as a role player?

Wouldn't that be firing the wrong person? A person who is correcting at least one of the mistakes mentioned above- if it is a mistake- by putting Wagers in charge of the defense.

I believe asking for a replacement for Bartow is like asking for your car's seat covers to be replaced when the engine needs overhauled.

And, on top of that, asking the color blind to choose those new seat covers for you!

Here's the title of the thread:

"Simple Poll about Bartow"

His question didn't mention firing. Nor did I.

Just to follow up a couple of things.....
Jackson *did* have the chance to leave after Eddie D. left. Bartow's very first act when he accepted the job, so we were told, was to fly to Pittsburgh and meet with Jackson - and to convince him to come back, because he knew Eddie D. didn't give him enough PT as a freshman.

Hamlin *is* a role player - his role is just bigger than Bartow knew until very very late in the season.

As for Nuckles, we here all know his foot speed was his greatest impediment (pun intended). Why does one try and slow him down some more? Yeah, I know, they thought his extra muscle would help him underneath. It was a bit of a gamble that didn't work out.

The question was: is he a good bench coach? The evidence is overwhelming that he is not. It was insightful of Shaw to put in option #4 for you, and hilarious that you just stepped right on into it. I know - you can't help yourself.....

Yeah, and another person agreed with me, and more people disagree with your assessment of Bartow than agree.

And don't give me this "We haven't called for his firing!" You read Shaw's posts and he says things like "we need someone who can coach."

If that isn't a "fire the coach" comment I don't know what is. Either you're insulting the collective intelligence of the board, Shaw included, or you're too plain stupid to comprehend what is written.

I don't want to make excuses or put words into Murry Bartow's mouth regarding Nuck.

But I would imagine any coach would want his big man in the paint to have some muscle- especially after Jerald Fields.

Had Nuck remained a beanpole and gotten hurt, you'd be saying Bartow and Morrow didn't physically prepare him enough for the Division I game. That's why I HATE HATE HATE it when people try to blame coaches for injuries.

Bottom line- it's time for these arguements to come to a conclusion.

DO YOU WANT MURRY BARTOW TO BE FIRED BEFORE THE SEASON BEGINS AND FOR DAVID MULLINS TO HIRE HIS REPLACEMENT BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU PERCEIVE AS LOUSY STRATEGY?

If so, because that's where this is headed, then continue.

If not- SHUT UP!

If Bartow wins 22+ games this year, we beat Temple, and go back to the NCAA tournament, no one will care.

Absolutely.

What is winning 22+ games going to prove? 20 of those are in the A-Sun and if we go back to the NCAA that just means we won the A-Sun.. Woot woot there for sure. Beating Temple yeah that would be something but he should win 20 games and make a run at the NCAA with the schedule he has.

Bartow has not done a good job as a head coach at any university.

His teams have not done the job:

1. Team not in shape
2. Poor defense - all areas
3. Poor free throw shooting
4. Poor half court offense
5. Poor inbound plays
6. Poor rebounding technique
7. Poor substituing
8. Poor PT time decisions
9. Poor TO decisions
10. Poor relations with team members
11. Poor recruiting - big men

I could go on, but would be clear to anyone who knows anything about basketball and has seen this team play on a regular basis, that either they have not been prepared correctly or they just can't do the job. Either way it falls on Bartow, he makes all the final decisions on recruiting, asst. coaches, game planning, OOC schedules, practice points, defensive schemes (or lack of), offensive schemes (or lack of).

It makes no difference who hired him , where the team plays, what conference they are in, who graduated, who they recruited, whose hurt or who quit. These things have nothing to do with teaching fundamental offense and defense. It has to do with the head coaches decision making ability and Bartow has not shown he can get the job done in one of the worst conferences. Heaven forbid if we played in a real conference.

I agree with Pitt. This is just tiresome and pointless.

[Third attempt to post this.........]

Feeling a bit testy today are we, Pittiful?

Let's review:

Quote:Here's the title of the thread:

"Simple Poll about Bartow"

His question didn't mention firing. Nor did I.

And what's this "we" s**t? Once again you've gone back to your tried-and-UNtrue habit of your infamous "paraphrasing". Shaw can speak for himself. So can I. There are several additional posters on this board who can do rather well with the English language, even if some of them are ETSU graduates. Why don't you let our own words speak for themselves? [Because he has to attempt to frame things in *his* way; that's the way people who build straw men operate.]

One more time, I have not called for his firing. Certainly now is not the time to do that. (One or two or three years ago, after any particular season, it should have been done, but not at this juncture. I didn't voice anything about firing him back then, nor have I now.) It was a simple poll; even had the word "simple" in the title of the thread. I voted, and commented on his bench coaching attributes, which was the intent of the poll. That's all.

Oh, one more thing which got lost in my second attempt to post. I actually agree with goldfinger about this. It's tiresome and pointless. It was a "simple poll" people.......

bucten Wrote:Bartow has not done a good job as a head coach at any university.

His teams have not done the job:

1. Team not in shape
2. Poor defense - all areas
3. Poor free throw shooting
4. Poor half court offense
5. Poor inbound plays
6. Poor rebounding technique
7. Poor substituing
8. Poor PT time decisions
9. Poor TO decisions
10. Poor relations with team members
11. Poor recruiting - big men

I could go on, but would be clear to anyone who knows anything about basketball and has seen this team play on a regular basis, that either they have not been prepared correctly or they just can't do the job. Either way it falls on Bartow, he makes all the final decisions on recruiting, asst. coaches, game planning, OOC schedules, practice points, defensive schemes (or lack of), offensive schemes (or lack of).

It makes no difference who hired him , where the team plays, what conference they are in, who graduated, who they recruited, whose hurt or who quit. These things have nothing to do with teaching fundamental offense and defense. It has to do with the head coaches decision making ability and Bartow has not shown he can get the job done in one of the worst conferences. Heaven forbid if we played in a real conference.

Buc ten I don't know where you come off naming things that are nothing more than mostly opinion with not allot of facts behind it,maybe you should do research or no the numbers before you post a comment You said the bucs are a poor freethrow shooting team yet they where second in the league last year at 72.5 as a team only .14 behind the leader and actually.32 ahead of Belmont with more attempts and less games so that is scraped,..you said he has bad rebounders yet if you want to use conference as an excuse for some things being better than others didn't Dillion Sneed lead the So-Con in rebounding??? True brad knuckles wasn't a true post but he was also one of the top rebounders in the asun also so that is also scraped bucten. Team not in shape???although they may be frenetic at times you can't play at that high of a speed and run that press without being in shape so where do you get off with that??? Micah williams and Mike Smith all the way back to Ben Rhoda those guys are in shape,..and isn't that Lee Morrows job not bartows to do the preseason conditioning??? Poor recruiting of big men who's to say you need 7 footers to win in a gaurd oriented league so why would that be one of the uptmost focuses, etsu has some helluva gaurds the best in the league actually year after year and that is an undisputed fact (numerous p.o.y.) So why go after big slow bigs instead of athletic 6'7 -6'8 guys that can keep up with a much faster pace cause after all it is about winning the league cause thats the only way to get to post season. I could go on and on and rip each of your assesments although they aren't all off base but it seems as though you are ust being wayy to negative without even looking at the whole picure and all the facts.

I'll let this stand:

Quote:There are several additional posters on this board who can do rather well with the English language....

......despite that above post. At least I didn't name names.

posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:I'll let this stand:

Quote:There are several additional posters on this board who can do rather well with the English language....

......despite that above post. At least I didn't name names.

Well sorry for my poor grammar and typos I didn't know there was a prerequisite and a required proper use of the english language to post on an internet site lol. Lighten up I'm only giving my opinion and pointing out another misguided one of another poster, next time I'll be sure to do a spell and grammar check since obviously my etsu degree and education didn't adequately prepare me to be an effective poster on a message board.

Although it may not have come across as such, it actually was meant to be tongue-in-cheek and lighthearted. There certainly is no prerequisite. Post away.