Krocker Krapp Wrote:Some people have no vision. The only thing they know how to do is drink Haterade and then regurgitate it all over the walls and floor.

Obviously the first choice would be to grab Boston College if a split ever comes to pass. Having the ACC in Boston is worse for the football schools than if the ACC was in Philadelphia since the Keystone State is at least contiguous to ACC territory. But you always need to make a Plan B in case the Lying Eagles still cling to their stubborn stupidity and say no.

We have to have either Boston or Philadelphia for the purposes of television contracts, market share, geographical balance, and basketball recruiting. Maybe those things mean nothing to some fans but they mean a whole lot to the people who will actually be making decisions about the future of a post-split league. They will end up making intelligent decisions.

As far as what previous Temple administrations did, those clowns are gone, new leaders are in charge now. The new president at Temple was a college athlete and supports sports. She is the first pro-sports president there since the '80s. Let that sink in. Part of the reason Temple was so bad during their tenure in the Big East was anti-football administrations.

Golden is an up and coming young coach who can recruit extremely well and has put together a solid vision for the program that he wants to build. He even finished as the runner-up to Neuheisel for the UCLA job this winter. Professionals certainly respect him. The AD came in after the Big East boot was given and is fixing the mistakes of his horrid predecesors.

It needs to be pointed out again that Temple was merely a football-only member of the Big East before and that is not the best situation for any school. Put all of their teams in one solid all-sports conference with no interference from Villanova or disrespect from Miami and you would see different results. A new and competent administration guarantees that.

Temple would not be rejoining the Big East. Neither would Boston College for that matter. Either one of them would be joining a new league containing four teams they formerly played in the Big East with and four or more members that they did not share a league with. Schools should never make decisions based on fear of what some media morons might believe.

Lack of respect for the needs of Connecticut, Syracuse, and Rutgers also comes through in some of these opinions. Certain people keep demanding Memphis at any and all costs because that benefits their school and geographic region yet they do not give a hoot about anyone else's school, history, or region of the country. Geographic balance is not an evil concept.

Make no mistake about it, Boston College is highly preferred over Temple, but a back-up plan has to be done just in case. It also makes no sense to try upgrading a team from FCS like Massachusetts because that would only dilute an already thin New England market and neither Boston College nor Temple would disappear. So that would only hurt the existing teams.

Release the hate. Stop obsessing over old days. Boston College and Temple are both capable of overcoming their past transgressions.

Yup ideally we'd be splitting and BC, Temple, State Penn, and Memphis would all be coming aboard. That being said a 10 team league containing Temple and Memphis would be fine in the long haul.

PS. Would be interesting to see what RU's TV Ratings were out of Philly last year....as what is the name of that state located just across the river from Philly?

Oh yeah...NJ.

PS. Still can't believe some fellow NJ locals actually CHEER for the Phillies, Flyers, Sixers and Eagles!

KnightLight Wrote:PS. Would be interesting to see what RU's TV Ratings were out of Philly last year....as what is the name of that state located just across the river from Philly?

Oh yeah...NJ.

PS. Still can't believe some fellow NJ locals actually CHEER for the Phillies, Flyers, Sixers and Eagles!

Not just cheer, but live and die for them. NJ is such a strange state as it is split in two and really could be two different states. I feel more associated with Pennsylvanians than I do with anyone from North Jersey. Heck, I live only 15 miles from Center City Philadelphia.

While I don't have any specific numbers, I know there has been a lot of buzz in the Philly media the past year or two about Rutgers since about 1/3 of the Philly market is NJ. There are a great deal of newspapers that are part of the Philly market that specialize in the different 'burbs' (i.e. several Jersey papers, some Delaware papers and some suburban PA papers). My paper always has Rutgers stories just below the Phils or Eagles (or Flyers or Sixers) stories. We also get full Big East coverage here, which is nice as a Syracuse fan. I also read stories online from one of the Phillies beat writers for a Delaware paper and things come up about UD and DSU a lot on that site, obviously.

esayem Wrote:

zibby Wrote:They only went 3-5 in the most mediocre MAC in a decade.

Any more questions?


If we want crappy teams that are only going to make the Big East look like a minor league, why not add Northeastern, too?

Well, football is not the only sport. They did go dancing. BTW, the MAC was very well balanced last year, I thought they did well.

Actually Temple was 4-4 last year in it's first year in the MAC. 4-4 is not too bad for a team that loaded with freshmen and sophmores. Oh, and Temple returns 21 out of 22 starters this year and also returns the #1 Defense in the conference.
New President that likes football, a new coach that actually knows how to recruit.
This is in no way, shape, or form the Temple that was in the BE under Bobby Wallace.

CardinalJim Wrote:The problem with Temple is the PR nightmare it would cause. The media would have a field day attacking the Big East for begging Temple to come back. We would be much better off spinning the value of adding teams that have never been in a BCS conference than trying to sell a new and improved version of Temple. Ecspecially when you look at on the field performance and the new and improved version is worse than the one that was asked to leave the Big East in the first place.
CJ

You've got to be kidding!!
In a sports world where characters like T.O., Chad Johnson, Pacman Jones, Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi etc, etc. etc. are allowed a second (third) chance, you're worried about Temple?!!!!!!!! Laughable!

esayem Wrote:Well, football is not the only sport.

Said the ACC fan.

esayem Wrote:the MAC was very well balanced last year

Riiiiiiiight. I'm sure if the Big East champ were to finish 8-6 you'd be first in line to defend the BE against critics calling the league mediocre.

JVWOwls86 Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:The problem with Temple is the PR nightmare it would cause. The media would have a field day attacking the Big East for begging Temple to come back. We would be much better off spinning the value of adding teams that have never been in a BCS conference than trying to sell a new and improved version of Temple. Ecspecially when you look at on the field performance and the new and improved version is worse than the one that was asked to leave the Big East in the first place.
CJ

You've got to be kidding!!
In a sports world where characters like T.O., Chad Johnson, Pacman Jones, Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi etc, etc. etc. are allowed a second (third) chance, you're worried about Temple?!!!!!!!! Laughable!

I can't believe you just compared an institution of higher learning to a group of rapists, drug addicts and general a$$holes. You don't believe universities should be held to higher standards than the scum you have listed above? Temple is worse off than I could ever imagine.
CJ

At one time Louv FB was just as inept as Temple FB. Louv fixed the promblem, Why Temple is not allowed the same oppertunity is beyond me.

The challenge with Temple is similar to the challenge with UAB (but with different reasons).

Temple basketball may have fans. Temple football is empty. The school was not supportive during the initial growing years of the Big East and their success is correlated to their commitment.

UAB football is empty, too. UAB's difference is that another school (UAT) is responsible for holding down commitments the school tried to make.

Temple is very attractive for a split Big East. That said, Temple needs commitment like ECU has commitment.

templefootballfan Wrote:At one time Louv FB was just as inept as Temple FB. Louv fixed the promblem, Why Temple is not allowed the same oppertunity is beyond me.

It took Louisville football 20 years to become respectable enough for the Big East to consider our program for admission and truth be told if Mike Tranghese had not allowed the ACC to rape his conference we may have never got in. The point is Temple had their chance and they blew it. Why shouldn't another program like Memphis or ECU get an opportunity to see what they can do with BCS dollars and the BCS recruiting label before giving Temple another chance?
CJ

templefootballfan Wrote:At one time Louv FB was just as inept as Temple FB. Louv fixed the promblem, Why Temple is not allowed the same oppertunity is beyond me.

That's fair enough Temple Fan. And UC's football used to be pretty damn bad, itself.

Let me explain my thoughts as to why I have a problem with Temple. First, as I've said, they've been kicked out already. Yes, I'm convinced that they're headed in the right direction, and may be a FUTURE possibility, but, my feeling is that the effort must continue, as they are a LONG way from being a BE quality program. I'm still not sold, but, to Krocker's credit, as least I'm beginning to approach the idea with an open mind.

Now, if the BE administration considers Temple an IMMINENT expansion candidate, I'm really going to be upset per my explanation above. Plus, I'm going to be downright offended, as these same schools gave UC's academics such a hard time on the basis of the PERCEPTION of its basketball program. So, if they were to consider Temple a slam-dunk at this point, I have to really wonder where their priorities lie.

So, that's my stand: you're not ready yet, but I'm willing to wait and see. Regardless, good luck in the MAC. I really hope you guys tear it up over the next several years. The more viable expansion candidates emerge, the better.

zibby Wrote:

esayem Wrote:the MAC was very well balanced last year

Riiiiiiiight. I'm sure if the Big East champ were to finish 8-6 you'd be first in line to defend the BE against critics calling the league mediocre.

I may be wrong, but last time I checked the MAC was not part of the BCS, not held to "power conference" standards, or in any way shape or form on the level of the Big East. Stop nitpicking my posts and get a life, douche.

CardinalJim Wrote:

templefootballfan Wrote:At one time Louv FB was just as inept as Temple FB. Louv fixed the promblem, Why Temple is not allowed the same oppertunity is beyond me.

It took Louisville football 20 years to become respectable enough for the Big East to consider our program for admission and truth be told if Mike Tranghese had not allowed the ACC to rape his conference we may have never got in. The point is Temple had their chance and they blew it. Why shouldn't another program like Memphis or ECU get an opportunity to see what they can do with BCS dollars and the BCS recruiting label before giving Temple another chance?
CJ

Hey football head, Temple is not a football school and was just a convienence for the Big East. They were never accepted, never had a real chance because they were an affiliate. Plus, those admins are gone!

Your logic is way off, you are saying since Temple didn't become a football powerhouse ECU and Memphis are better options.

Read Krocker's post because it def applies to you.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Some people have no vision. The only thing they know how to do is drink Haterade and then regurgitate it all over the walls and floor.

Obviously the first choice would be to grab Boston College if a split ever comes to pass. Having the ACC in Boston is worse for the football schools than if the ACC was in Philadelphia since the Keystone State is at least contiguous to ACC territory. But you always need to make a Plan B in case the Lying Eagles still cling to their stubborn stupidity and say no.

We have to have either Boston or Philadelphia for the purposes of television contracts, market share, geographical balance, and basketball recruiting. Maybe those things mean nothing to some fans but they mean a whole lot to the people who will actually be making decisions about the future of a post-split league. They will end up making intelligent decisions.

As far as what previous Temple administrations did, those clowns are gone, new leaders are in charge now. The new president at Temple was a college athlete and supports sports. She is the first pro-sports president there since the '80s. Let that sink in. Part of the reason Temple was so bad during their tenure in the Big East was anti-football administrations.

Golden is an up and coming young coach who can recruit extremely well and has put together a solid vision for the program that he wants to build. He even finished as the runner-up to Neuheisel for the UCLA job this winter. Professionals certainly respect him. The AD came in after the Big East boot was given and is fixing the mistakes of his horrid predecesors.

It needs to be pointed out again that Temple was merely a football-only member of the Big East before and that is not the best situation for any school. Put all of their teams in one solid all-sports conference with no interference from Villanova or disrespect from Miami and you would see different results. A new and competent administration guarantees that.

Temple would not be rejoining the Big East. Neither would Boston College for that matter. Either one of them would be joining a new league containing four teams they formerly played in the Big East with and four or more members that they did not share a league with. Schools should never make decisions based on fear of what some media morons might believe.

Lack of respect for the needs of Connecticut, Syracuse, and Rutgers also comes through in some of these opinions. Certain people keep demanding Memphis at any and all costs because that benefits their school and geographic region yet they do not give a hoot about anyone else's school, history, or region of the country. Geographic balance is not an evil concept.

Make no mistake about it, Boston College is highly preferred over Temple, but a back-up plan has to be done just in case. It also makes no sense to try upgrading a team from FCS like Massachusetts because that would only dilute an already thin New England market and neither Boston College nor Temple would disappear. So that would only hurt the existing teams.

Release the hate. Stop obsessing over old days. Boston College and Temple are both capable of overcoming their past transgressions.

Great post, I wish some of these guys would read it!

My only qualm is your nearsighted UMass view. UMass may not have the funds, but they have shown a lot of interest in moving on up, with or without Big East help. They can capture not only Boston (see Coach Cal in the 90's) but the whole state. UConn is not "New England's team", nor will they evr be. Mass people hate UConn, Mass people like BC, but they freakin' love UMass when they are good (see the limelight of the 90's). So, in conclusion, UMass is going to be the 3rd FBS school in New England, and when they are, a Boston-less Big East should not overlook them.

1st off you do make good point. 2nd thing, adminstaton miscalculated the importance of FB, new adminstration realize strong program helps the school. 3rd thing, Temple collected a million a yr from BE, that is not BCS money. 4th thing, Temple never got a break from BE. BE wanted bottom fedder & got it from Temple. When BE told Temple they had to improve & gave them a timetable, Temple meet that timetable & was ahead of Rutgers & Conn at the time they were let go. Alot of Temple fans believe Temple was let go to help Rutgers growth & some extent Conn since all 3 recurit the same area. Tough Temple was not innocencent in this whole sernio, BE pulling the rug out from Temple FB hurt Temple FB more than Temple FB ever hurt the BE.

templefootballfan Wrote:1st off you do make good point. 2nd thing, adminstaton miscalculated the importance of FB, new adminstration realize strong program helps the school. 3rd thing, Temple collected a million a yr from BE, that is not BCS money. 4th thing, Temple never got a break from BE. BE wanted bottom fedder & got it from Temple. When BE told Temple they had to improve & gave them a timetable, Temple meet that timetable & was ahead of Rutgers & Conn at the time they were let go. Alot of Temple fans believe Temple was let go to help Rutgers growth & some extent Conn since all 3 recurit the same area. Tough Temple was not innocencent in this whole sernio, BE pulling the rug out from Temple FB hurt Temple FB more than Temple FB ever hurt the BE.

I agree. Temple was further ahead of UConn and Rutgers their last season. I think Temple is the most logical choice then Memphis, then ECU or UCF. The school fighting the most to be included is ECU. I don't know. I honestly doubt there will be a split anytime soon. Good debate here if you asked me.

Jose, 4yrs ago I tought Temple had no shot ever to get back in the BE, but times change & I do believe Temple has put itself into position to be the 12th school. I would agree, Memphis, East Car & UCF are in front, and there some schools have chance to be looked at for 12. Temple is right there with other schools & continue improvement hopefuully starts seperating Temple from the rest of the pack.

esayem Wrote:Hey football head, Temple is not a football school and was just a convienence for the Big East. They were never accepted, never had a real chance because they were an affiliate. Plus, those admins are gone!

Your logic is way off, you are saying since Temple didn't become a football powerhouse ECU and Memphis are better options.

Read Krocker's post because it def applies to you.

Your logic...Temple isn't a football school and they have changed administration so they deserve another chance.

My logic...They had their chance, they blew it.

That's simple enough. Even an ACC fan should be able to understand that. Why is an ACC fan is so concerned about the future of the Big East? Perhaps it's natural for a UNC fan to fear a ECU program with a BCS label.
CJ

CardnailJim, I have no promblem if that your stance. The aboration of the facts is all I want cleared up.

CardinalJim Wrote:Why shouldn't another program like Memphis or ECU get an opportunity to see what they can do with BCS dollars and the BCS recruiting label before giving Temple another chance?

The fallacy is in thinking that it is a choice. A post-split league will probably end up being forced to expand to 12 teams due to internal politics anyway so all of the vitriol is being spewed for naught. Temple, Memphis, East Carolina, and Central Florida are likely to end up getting the call together anyway.

esayem Wrote:My only qualm is your nearsighted UMass view. UMass may not have the funds, but they have shown a lot of interest in moving on up, with or without Big East help. They can capture not only Boston (see Coach Cal in the 90's) but the whole state. UConn is not "New England's team", nor will they evr be. Mass people hate UConn, Mass people like BC, but they freakin' love UMass when they are good (see the limelight of the 90's). So, in conclusion, UMass is going to be the 3rd FBS school in New England, and when they are, a Boston-less Big East should not overlook them.

Interest without money is nothing but a useless dream. New England can't support three BCS schools anyway. There is not enough talent in the region. BC is not going away and will continue to get their recruits no matter what. It means UConn and UMass would then be fighting for leftovers. No thanks.