perunapower Wrote:And your point is? We aren't discussing whether or not the US should be allied with Israel. Nor are we discussing Israel's right to sovereignty.

The US has two choices because it is both blessed and burdened with the responsibility of being a superpower: we can be the playground bully by flexing our muscles and forcing our will upon the world or we can step up and lead.

Leading isn't bossing people around and forcing people to conform to your will; it is much deeper and more complex than that. Now of the two choices, I choose the latter because it is much more apt to be successful (in most cases), in my opinion.

Ahh, but we're not trying to force Iran to "our" will, unless protecting Israel is our will. We're dealing with a dictator who actually wants to see the destruction of Israel, and not only that, is actually building nuclear facilities. On top of that, he's referring to a hidden Imam. I don't know your experience on Islam, but that is the savior to them. How do you deal with that, Peruna? Talking isn't going to help....at....all. He's on a mission. While liberals in this country are bashing, trashing, and denouncing Christians, they're oblivious to the true threat, that being radical Islam. Yes, there are MANY liberal Muslims in Iran, much more than Iraq at the time we invaded, but that's beside the point. It's still controlled by radicals. So, how do we deal with it? Talk to them? Tell me, what good would talking to someone do when they're hell bent on a mission? Neville Chamberlain tried this as well. How'd that work out?

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:Prediction: Israel will anihilate Iran if they become convinced that Iran has nuc weps and a delivery capability. And that capability might be to ship the warhead in a civilian shipping container to Lebanon, where Hezbollah would pick it up and bolt it onto the end of a hand-held missile that they can launch from 22 miles away from Tel Aviv.

Second prediction: If and when Israel does anihilate Iran, they will do so with the support and backing (albeit clandestine) of the Saudi governemnt and military. I will not be surprised if they launch air strikes from Saudi bases.

As a member of the Saudi royal family (a lower ranking prince, but nonetheless a member of the royal family) told me years ago, "My brother and I will fight my cousin. My cousin and I will fight my cousin. And we never forget that Isaac and Ishmael were brothers." Okay, they were half-brothers. But remember that was Isaac and Ishmael, not Isaac and Cyrus (even though Cyrus is the first person for whom the term "messiah" is used in the OT--Isaiah chapter 45).

I agree with you....This is likely to end badly for the Iranian people.
This is even more of a reason to try to get this fool to understand fully how close he is pushing his nation into destruction. To take the stand that "We wont engage in diplomacy with Iran", is not only foolish but childish. We want to be seen as the worlds peacekeeper? Then how about trying to actually engage in keeping the peace?

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:Prediction: Israel will anihilate Iran if they become convinced that Iran has nuc weps and a delivery capability. And that capability might be to ship the warhead in a civilian shipping container to Lebanon, where Hezbollah would pick it up and bolt it onto the end of a hand-held missile that they can launch from 22 miles away from Tel Aviv.

Second prediction: If and when Israel does anihilate Iran, they will do so with the support and backing (albeit clandestine) of the Saudi governemnt and military. I will not be surprised if they launch air strikes from Saudi bases.

As a member of the Saudi royal family (a lower ranking prince, but nonetheless a member of the royal family) told me years ago, "My brother and I will fight my cousin. My cousin and I will fight my cousin. And we never forget that Isaac and Ishmael were brothers." Okay, they were half-brothers. But remember that was Isaac and Ishmael, not Isaac and Cyrus (even though Cyrus is the first person for whom the term "messiah" is used in the OT--Isaiah chapter 45).

I agree with you....This is likely to end badly for the Iranian people.
This is even more of a reason to try to get this fool to understand fully how close he is pushing his nation into destruction. To take the stand that "We wont engage in diplomacy with Iran", is not only foolish but childish. We want to be seen as the worlds peacekeeper? Then how about trying to actually engage in keeping the peace?

Because it isn't the Republican way.

RebelKev Wrote:Ahh, but we're not trying to force Iran to "our" will, unless protecting Israel is our will. We're dealing with a dictator who actually wants to see the destruction of Israel, and not only that, is actually building nuclear facilities. On top of that, he's referring to a hidden Imam. I don't know your experience on Islam, but that is the savior to them. How do you deal with that, Peruna? Talking isn't going to help....at....all. He's on a mission. While liberals in this country are bashing, trashing, and denouncing Christians, they're oblivious to the true threat, that being radical Islam. Yes, there are MANY liberal Muslims in Iran, much more than Iraq at the time we invaded, but that's beside the point. It's still controlled by radicals. So, how do we deal with it? Talk to them? Tell me, what good would talking to someone do when they're hell bent on a mission? Neville Chamberlain tried this as well. How'd that work out?

By forcing our will onto a country, I meant trying to Americanize them politically, culturally, etc. We should respect that their heritage and culture are different than ours and not regard it is idiotic or wrong.

Regardless, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an idiot. A certifiable, grade A idiot. I realize that he is bent on destroying Israel and probably on obtaining nuclear weapons. I realize he denies the Holocaust. Because we don't like his opinions, we have essentially four options: ignore Iran with isolationist blinders on, hold diplomatic talks with economic sanctions to create pressure, a limited military strategy to overthrow the current regime, or total devastation with full military strength.

Every time we've employed a limited military strategy, it hasn't worked out well. Korea ended in a virtual stalemate, Vietnam was a disaster, and Iraq has been grueling and tough, and has yet to conclude.

You must exhaust diplomatic relations before trying to implement a violent solution. Death should always try to be averted. War is an awful thing; we shouldn't be so hasty to jump into it.

Neville Chamberlain is not a proper analogy here. We aren't giving gifts (land) to maintain peace. If Obama wins the presidency and starts giving Ahmadinejad concessions to maintain a peace, then an analogy to Chamberlain is applicable. If that happens, I suggest canning Obama in the same fashion Chamberlain was.

RebelKev Wrote:While liberals in this country are bashing, trashing, and denouncing Christians, they're oblivious to the true threat, that being radical Islam.

Not true at all. Some do, but it is not entirety of the liberal population, so quit lumping the whole of liberals into some blatantly wrong persona.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:Prediction: Israel will anihilate Iran if they become convinced that Iran has nuc weps and a delivery capability. And that capability might be to ship the warhead in a civilian shipping container to Lebanon, where Hezbollah would pick it up and bolt it onto the end of a hand-held missile that they can launch from 22 miles away from Tel Aviv.

Second prediction: If and when Israel does anihilate Iran, they will do so with the support and backing (albeit clandestine) of the Saudi governemnt and military. I will not be surprised if they launch air strikes from Saudi bases.

As a member of the Saudi royal family (a lower ranking prince, but nonetheless a member of the royal family) told me years ago, "My brother and I will fight my cousin. My cousin and I will fight THE WORLD. And we never forget that Isaac and Ishmael were brothers." Okay, they were half-brothers. But remember that was Isaac and Ishmael, not Isaac and Cyrus (even though Cyrus is the first person for whom the term "messiah" is used in the OT--Isaiah chapter 45).

I agree with you....This is likely to end badly for the Iranian people.
This is even more of a reason to try to get this fool to understand fully how close he is pushing his nation into destruction. To take the stand that "We wont engage in diplomacy with Iran", is not only foolish but childish. We want to be seen as the worlds peacekeeper? Then how about trying to actually engage in keeping the peace?

I edited my quote to correct a typo that I can't believe I made. Typing in a hurry will get you in trouble.