uhmump95 Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:There have been those who have wanted Ebonics taught in the public schools as a separate language.

Those people are idiots plain and simple.

I was joking about the "whites messing up some slang" quotes in an attempt to lighten the mood about a subject that could go bad very quickly.

As for ez2, chack some of his other deep questions about race. When you attempt to have a conversation with him, he turtles up and you never hear from him.

I have noticed that turtling. I certainly did not intend to become an Endzone apologist.

Mump, you and I (or should that be we'uns ;-) ) agree more often than not.

I'm done with it.

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

moloch_322 Wrote:And in comparison to someone who speaks Oxford English, all Americans, even the rest of the Anglophonic world, sound like savage fools with lack of vocabulary skills.

Bullet Tooth Tony: A bookie's got blagged last night.
Avi: Blagged? Do me a favor, Tony, speak English. I thought this country spawned the **** language, and so far nobody seems to speak it.

Great "Snatch" quote, but they're speaking more of a Cockney dialect than Oxford English. Think more along the lines of the Queen or Monty Python's John Clease.

blah Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:Just to let you know ez2, in some places "ya'll" is considered slang and you would be looked down upon for saying it.

You beat me to it, uhmump. I was wondering why Endzone couldn't just speak like a regular person and not use phrases like "Ya'll."

Seriously, it is just a dialect, in my opinion. I don't see how this is any different than Native Americans who still keep their language alive, or immigrants who still speak their native tounges in their homes. There's really nothing "wrong" with it. If I go to Philly, it might take me a few minutes to figure out that I need to ask for a glass of wooder.

Immigrants who are trying to keep alive their native tougue are not speaking a variation of English, so it is not a dialect.

Most dialects are regional: people in the South speak differently those in the North, who in turn speak differently from those in the Midwest, West, Australia, Wales, Scotland, etc.

Ebonics is not regional: it is racial in character. But it is not an attempt to preserve old languages. I think it is more of an attempt to create a new one. Witness the resentment toward whites messing up black speech - the Vanilla Ice blaming. It seems to me that Ebonics is just another way to separate the races - not integrate them. Maybe some of y'all (used on purpose) know - did MLK, Jr, use Ebonics in his private discussions? He certainly didn't in his public speaking.

Comparing "homies" to "y'all" is really apples and oranges. IMO.

As far as being thought of as an uneducated caucasian redneck ouside of Fort Worth, I thought uneducated was part of the stereotype of redneck, for those who prefer stereotypes. I think the usage of y'all is much more widespread than Ft Worth. But what do I know - I'm just a mostly caucasian redneck with a master's degree living just outside Ft. Worth. Clearly not someone who should have an opinion, much less express it.

FYI, the word "redneck", like "gay" has changed in meaning over the last few decades. It used to refer to farmers - people who worked hard 7-24 to support themselves and their families. Probably they were uneducated, but they were as decent a group as you could find. I think in the 60's it became a blanket word for "white guy", and now is used for "racist".

I think we have reached a point in which a person asking sincere questions, like endzone2 did, is judged by the color of his skin, and replied to based on that skin color. I saw only one person give a serious response to him. Do his questions lack merit because of his race?

Optimistic,

I apologize for my comments. I certainly wasn't trying to call you or any of the other DFW folks out. I was aware that Endzone2 does or did live in the Ft. Worth area and therefore wanted to spin his question in a different way to see if it offended him. I probably did not do it in a very tactful manner. For the most part this yankee loves the people (and the winter weather) down here. Drop me a line and I'll buy you a pop (that's yankee for Coke) or other frosty beverage.

We're cool, Blah (that's slang for everything is OK - wait, OK is slang for - aw, just forget it)

Anyway, I didn't take it personally. I just hate to see the word "redneck" used to mean either "white racist" or "utter dolt". Those may be subclasses of "rednecks", but they certainly aren't all of them.

Now I'm a gonna mosey on down to the Roadkill Cafe for some red beans and cornbread - see y'all later.

moloch_322 Wrote:

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

moloch_322 Wrote:And in comparison to someone who speaks Oxford English, all Americans, even the rest of the Anglophonic world, sound like savage fools with lack of vocabulary skills.

Bullet Tooth Tony: A bookie's got blagged last night.
Avi: Blagged? Do me a favor, Tony, speak English. I thought this country spawned the **** language, and so far nobody seems to speak it.

Great "Snatch" quote, but they're speaking more of a Cockney dialect than Oxford English. Think more along the lines of the Queen or Monty Python's John Clease.

I know. I was just looking for an excuse to use it ;-)

Sorry I can't join you during the day like I could when I was living in Ft. Worth, but I am working in Seattle now and the traffic is pretty tough too.

I appreciate the civility of this conversation. It's unfortunate that you can't even bring this up in most circles without people freaking out--and especially white liberals. But, sooner or later we are going to have to face the truth about the differences in the races. They go deeper than skin color. This is the fact that no one wants to face. We want to continue to pretend that whites do everything just as well as blacks do and that blacks do everything just as well as whites do. And of course that is a complete lie that no one in our fantasy culture of "equality" wants to face. When the Lord God created the races, he created them in their uniqueness.

Well, I'm rambling. The reason a lot of black guys speak ebonics is because they are intimidated by academics. In fact some black coaches and some black guys that are honest will say, "academics are for whites". Remember when BB coach John Thompson said this? Well, at least he was honest. There is a certain security to black people by speaking ebonics. And let's be honest. When you speak ebonics the goal is to make yourself sound uneducated and even disadvantaged. I think this also tends to solicit a certain degree of sympathy from American culture that is flooded with affirmative action for blacks. We are on a relentless quest to make blacks equal with whites in every facet of American life. When black guys speak ebonics, they send the message that they need help. "They just bees pour unedukated niggas from da hood and day just neds a gud job and everythng be alright". If blacks speak good neutral normal English, the message is they don't need any help and they're on their own.

Also, we need to get over the paranoia of the word ******. Heck, black guys call each other that all the time. If I use that word it doesn't necessarily mean I'm a racist. We have all meet some black guys that the only way to describe them would be "****** with an attitude". Black guys know that. White guys know that. Why can't we say that? We need to be honest.

I'll tell you I like black people, but I'm absolutely fed up with the culture of the past 40 years, and how it has destroyed the black community. It's high time blacks start taking responsibility for their actions and speaking ebonics is a way of coping out from responsibility.

poor endzone. he's so tactless.

Just because you don't speak jive doesn't make you any better. It may be hard to conduct business at times, depending on one's clientel. Perhaps the black man doesn't want whitey to know what he's saying all the time.

Its like when I visit Alabama. I have no idea what they're saying.

Endzone2 Wrote:Can we have an intelligent discussion about this? I attempted to do this on the TCU board and was savagely attacked by libs (mostly whites) on the TCU board. These people could not get past their emotions or their hatred of me to have an intelligent discussion about this subject that I find very interesting.

There is a black guy I work with (here in Seattle) that speaks perfectly neutral English like I do. People born and raised in Ohio speak neutral English. So, why do most blacks speak with the slang or act like they're stupid when they speak? Ya'll know what I mean. Why do they talk that way? Does anyone besides me find this topic interesting for honest discussion? Can we all act like mature adults here instead of the raging white libs on the TCU board?

Culture and environment. I live in the south, why do most people around here, white or black, talk with a southern accent? That's how they were raised. I don't understand why someone would have attacked you for it unless it got racially charged real quick. This is a bit of a naive question that can be seen as flamebait.

I just want to say that I believe both black and white people are greatly valuved in the sight of God. I also think this is exactly the case with men & women and any other race or group of people. But we should be able to talk about the uniqueness of each race without being called a racist when we describe those differences. I appreciate the civility of the posters and restraint of the mods regarding this topic.

I don't think ebonics is geographcial like some posters have said. I've lived in Cincinnati, Ft. Worth, and Seattle which are 3 cities pretty far apart from each other. Ebonics is the same in all 3 areas. So the reason black folks speak ebonics is obviously for some reason other than a slang in a any particular geographical region. It goes deeper than that.

GrayBeard Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:

ShoreBuc Wrote:I have often wondered why it is when you get a group of people from NJ together especially in Florida, that there NJ accents all of a sudden get much more pronounced.
It all of a sudden becomes a contest or a matter of NJ pride which one has the best accent.

Here on St. Thomas it is pretty normal for a West Indian to be speaking to a white boy like myself in a very neutral accent and then they can turn on a dime to talk to another West Indian in a heavy West Indian accent.

My grandmother when she was in public would speak perfect "proper" (I hate that term) English. But when she got home or was talking with friends she could talk the slang of her day in a second and not miss a beat.

Today, blacks speak their slang all the time because it has become main stream to talk like that.

I personally think its wrong, because some you white people really butcher some good slang. lmfao

Couple of questions...seriously...Do you generally speak in slang? What do you think of PTNC's attempts at slang? What about the "N" word?

My attempts at slang?

Well if you think that is how I talk then you miss the whole point.

I just watch a lot of blaxploitation movies and listen to a lof of rap, and even to some of those shows like The Jeffersons, Benson, ect... I just hear it said and used a lot in incorporate it into my posts for humor.

Anywho to the more important subject matter here

From my observations certain "groups" of blacks hold others in contempt on the language issue..

Like for instance if a black speeks "proper" English they get ridiculed for not being "black" by another black. Basically reinforcing bad habits to "fit in." And on top of the reinforcement at that level the entertainment/media industry markets and promotes this mentality. Thus you have the "profiling" et. all tha comes from that.

I have also heard black friends get into Job English vs Slang... Its an interstsing conversation.

It is a dialect (or creole language) like many other languages that are spoken. There is a creole of english spoken in South Carolina/Georgia. I can't remember what it is called now but they even have books written in that dialect.

Gullah. It's spoken on the barrier islands on the Georgia and South Carolina coasts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah_language

Funny that I grew up on St. Simons Island, but never heard about it until after I left to go to college...