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Liberals ready to abandon US right to abortion
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rteynor Offline
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Post: #41
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
Quote:Conception is the start of life.

By that definition... if you consider *all* abortions murder, then every time one of the following happens it is murdering:
- Popping a zit
- Blowing your nose
- Getting up blood with a paper towel or whatnot
- Masturbating
- Having a period

B/c all of the bodily fluids you are getting rid of in each of these scenarios have just as much intelligence... awareness... etc... as a very early fetus... ESPECIALLY when conception has just happened.
I think that's total BS, but you believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe. There's not a thing either of us can say that will change the point of view of the other.
07-08-2005 03:50 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #42
 
rteynor Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
Quote:Conception is the start of life.

By that definition... if you consider *all* abortions murder, then every time one of the following happens it is murdering:
- Popping a zit
- Blowing your nose
- Getting up blood with a paper towel or whatnot
- Masturbating
- Having a period

B/c all of the bodily fluids you are getting rid of in each of these scenarios have just as much intelligence... awareness... etc... as a very early fetus... ESPECIALLY when conception has just happened.
I think that's total BS, but you believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe. There's not a thing either of us can say that will change the point of view of the other.
Ever seen conception? It's -- for some period of time -- a single cell. For a good long time (many weeks) those cells just keep dividing before specializing into organs.

So... cells that just keep dividing that have no intelligence... just rudimentary functions similar to that of bacteria.

Why yes, I believe human blood, semen, and mucus fit that bill nicely as well.

The only way I could possibly buy "life begins at conception" is if your belief is religious... and religion is, by its very definition, explaining the unexplainable... and thus doesn't hold any weight in gov't or legal issues.
07-08-2005 03:54 PM
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Fanatical Offline
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Post: #43
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:The only way I could possibly buy "life begins at conception" is if your belief is religious... and religion is, by its very definition, explaining the unexplainable... and thus doesn't hold any weight in gov't or legal issues.
Even the non-religious can respect the full potential that conception brings. There are so many types of birth control that decent education and availability of birth control methods should do away with abortion.


Personally, I think it is barbaric.
07-08-2005 05:22 PM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Post: #44
 
2,739 babies killed today.

Quite the "right" this country supports.
07-08-2005 06:04 PM
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Skipuno Offline
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Post: #45
 
I think much of the problem with abortion is that the same wonderful supreme court that took away property rights, also decreed that abortion is legal. Overturning Roe v Wade would not make abortion illegal again, all it would do is let states decide if they wanted it or not. Would that be good or bad? I dont know. All I know as a libritarian is that I hate when the courts make laws.
07-08-2005 07:30 PM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Post: #46
 
Skipuno Wrote:I think much of the problem with abortion is that the same wonderful supreme court that took away property rights, also decreed that abortion is legal. Overturning Roe v Wade would not make abortion illegal again, all it would do is let states decide if they wanted it or not. Would that be good or bad? I dont know. All I know as a libritarian is that I hate when the courts make laws.
The closer we are to repealling this appauling and disgusting law, the better we'll be.
07-08-2005 08:48 PM
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Post: #47
 
The Knight Time Wrote:
Skipuno Wrote:I think much of the problem with abortion is that the same wonderful supreme court that took away property rights, also decreed that abortion is legal. Overturning Roe v Wade would not make abortion illegal again, all it would do is let states decide if they wanted it or not. Would that be good or bad? I dont know. All I know as a libritarian is that I hate when the courts make laws.
The closer we are to repealling this appauling and disgusting law, the better we'll be.
Are you for abortion:


1) When it endangers a woman's life

2) When there are obvious birth defects

3) A woman raped

4) Incest



?????

I'm against abortion, mind you, but only as a form of birth control. After the 2nd trimester, it's over. The child WILL be born. ALL of the scenarios that I have stated can be identified in the 1st.
07-08-2005 11:44 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #48
 
Fanatical Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:The only way I could possibly buy "life begins at conception" is if your belief is religious... and religion is, by its very definition, explaining the unexplainable... and thus doesn't hold any weight in gov't or legal issues.
Even the non-religious can respect the full potential that conception brings. There are so many types of birth control that decent education and availability of birth control methods should do away with abortion.


Personally, I think it is barbaric.
A nice assumption to make there. A co-worker of my girlfriend took birth control. Her boyfriend used a condom. The condom broke... the birth control didn't work. She gave birth to a boy at age 19... which she had to give up for adoption... devastating her. She also damn near died from complications at delivery stemming from her age and small size.

But hey... it's barbaric to abort early... let's damn near kill her *** and lead her offspring and herself down a long hard road with a shattered life. :rolleyes:

Let me put it this way... there's over 6 billion people in the world.
We'll assume a generous 60% male, 40% female due to places like China. That's 2,400,000,000 women worldwide.
We'll be again very generous and say only 25% of those women are in an age of sexual activity. That is 600,000,000 women.
Now let's once again be generous and assume they are only using the most effective birth control on the market -- 99% effective.
That is 6,000,000 women who will have a completely unwanted and unplanned conception... some being entirely too old or young to handle delivery... some with gross birth defects that threaten the life of mother and child... some being conceived to parents financially incapable of giving the child even a miserable and ****** existance.

But hey.. it's barbaric to not put a huge burden on society... kill mothers... have children born of incest and/or rape... doff off children that are "genetically incapable" of coping with our world.... ruin lives of teenages forever, not to mention their offspring... because dammit it's a few cells that are dividing -- much like your skin or mucus or pus or blood. (DON'T YOU DARE BE BLOWING YOUR NOSE YOU KILLER!).

But hey... let's continue to be extremely generous in our estimates....

Let's say everybody using birth control is also having a partner use a condom at all times (AHHHHHH HAHAHAHHA yea right).
We'll be once again wildly generous and say that they are using the super thick condoms that give you NO sensation whatsoever.
We'll say they are 99.99% effective.

That's still 6,000 unplanned conceptions... and I'd like to remind you I was WILDLY generous in that number.
07-09-2005 12:03 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #49
 
The Knight Time Wrote:2,739 babies killed today.

Quite the "right" this country supports.
God help you when you get sick. That box of kleenex is going to be the equivalent of a concentration camp of slaughter.

If aborted early enough -- the "organism" is no more advanced than f'n white blood cells and mucus. I encourage you to actually watch an educational video on conception. No honest scientist familiar with conception would disagree with what I have stated. Life only occurs later in the pregnancy when cells begin to specialize into organs.... in specific (IMHO), when a brain capable of rudimentary function has formed.
07-09-2005 12:07 AM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Post: #50
 
RebelKev Wrote:
The Knight Time Wrote:
Skipuno Wrote:I think much of the problem with abortion is that the same wonderful supreme court that took away property rights, also decreed that abortion is legal. Overturning Roe v Wade would not make abortion illegal again, all it would do is let states decide if they wanted it or not. Would that be good or bad? I dont know. All I know as a libritarian is that I hate when the courts make laws.
The closer we are to repealling this appauling and disgusting law, the better we'll be.
Are you for abortion:


1) When it endangers a woman's life

2) When there are obvious birth defects

3) A woman raped

4) Incest



?????

I'm against abortion, mind you, but only as a form of birth control. After the 2nd trimester, it's over. The child WILL be born. ALL of the scenarios that I have stated can be identified in the 1st.
In those circumstances, I don't see why an abortion can't be performed.

However, overwhelmingly abortions occur because of wreckless sex and the total inability to take ANY responsibilty for your actions. Apparently ending a life is worth people having a "wild night" and not having to worry about it- after all, they can just abort the baby right?

And GTS, your comparison OF A HUMAN LIFE to a sneeze is sick and absolutely inappropriate. I'd advise you keep your pro-choice antics to a minimal.
07-09-2005 12:19 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #51
 
The Knight Time Wrote:And GTS, your comparison OF A HUMAN LIFE to a sneeze is sick and absolutely inappropriate. I'd advise you keep your pro-choice antics to a minimal.
There isn't a scientist in the world that can classify a human embryo... immediately after conception.... as a human life. For some time it's just one cell... then for many weeks thereafter it's nothing more than cells dividing rapidly. There is zero specialization. There is zero intelligence. It is no more a human than your white blood cells.. which have aguably more intelligent actions (attacking molecules based on chemical build and chemical "markers" the body attaches to them) than the embryo / extremely early fetus.

There isn't a scientist on the planet than would honestly say an embryo -- immediately upon conception -- is a human. It's ONE CELL for christ's sake. By that definition... my skin cells qualify as humans!!! If I cut myself am I then committing murder thousands upon thousands of times?

It's this simple: what you are considering a "human life" (embryo immediately after conception and for some weeks thereafter) does not jive with scientific definition. That's not scientific belief... it's friggin DEFINITION. You're essentially arguing against Webster's Dictionary.
07-09-2005 02:06 AM
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Fanatical Offline
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Post: #52
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:A nice assumption to make there. A co-worker of my girlfriend took birth control. Her boyfriend used a condom. The condom broke... the birth control didn't work. She gave birth to a boy at age 19... which she had to give up for adoption... devastating her. She also damn near died from complications at delivery stemming from her age and small size.
well, its nice that everyone lived
07-09-2005 03:03 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #53
 
Fanatical Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:A nice assumption to make there.  A co-worker of my girlfriend took birth control.  Her boyfriend used a condom.  The condom broke... the birth control didn't work.  She gave birth to a boy at age 19... which she had to give up for adoption... devastating her.  She also damn near died from complications at delivery stemming from her age and small size.
well, its nice that everyone lived
And clearly they are all so much better off for it. :rolleyes:
07-09-2005 03:24 AM
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rteynor Offline
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Post: #54
 
Boy, this degenerated fast.

I only posted the article because it seemed odd that the liberals (using the common term), would distance themselves from the abortion and right-to-choose aspect.
07-09-2005 06:43 AM
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Post: #55
 
The Knight Time Wrote:True or false.....

Abortion stops a beating heart.

As for your "rules of being alive"......

1. So Terry Schiavo wasn't alive?
2. What kind of BS guideline is that? Did you just pull it out of your @ss.
3. Many mentally retarded people have trouble encountering their environemts. Does that make them dead?

Enjoy promoting your haolcaust.
To answer your questions

1. No. If it wasn't for technology, she would have been dead long ago.
2. No. But if you unstick you head from your a$$ maybe you can understand it.
3. Iactually think all of my rules should be used in conjunction not separately.

I would prefer for abortion not to be an option period, but I am not going to condone taking away a woman's free will. Remember that, not even God takes away our free will. So why should man.
07-09-2005 07:10 AM
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Post: #56
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
Quote:Conception is the start of life.

By that definition... if you consider *all* abortions murder, then every time one of the following happens it is murdering:
- Popping a zit
- Blowing your nose
- Getting up blood with a paper towel or whatnot
- Masturbating
- Having a period

B/c all of the bodily fluids you are getting rid of in each of these scenarios have just as much intelligence... awareness... etc... as a very early fetus... ESPECIALLY when conception has just happened.
That is just rediculous. Probably one of the worst arguments I've heard for abortion rights. C'mon popping a zit and blowing your nose, you can do better than that

Quote: A nice assumption to make there. A co-worker of my girlfriend took birth control. Her boyfriend used a condom. The condom broke... the birth control didn't work. She gave birth to a boy at age 19... which she had to give up for adoption... devastating her. She also damn near died from complications at delivery stemming from her age and small size.

Because of her small size? It's called a c-section.

Quote:  It's this simple: what you are considering a "human life" (embryo immediately after conception and for some weeks thereafter) does not jive with scientific definition. That's not scientific belief... it's friggin DEFINITION. You're essentially arguing against Webster's Dictionary.


Haven't you heard, we have a new definition from HuskieDan on when a life is a true life according to the US government. :roflol:
07-09-2005 07:16 AM
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uhmump95 Offline
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Post: #57
 
RebelKev Wrote:Damn man, you don't keep up with the news?

<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/' target='_blank'>Decision</a>


Did you MISS the entire discussion we had?
Sometimes I miss the news and this board is not the best for me to use for keeping up with it.

As for the decision it seems it was more about allowing the local government to do their job. It is funny how when an area is blighted, that "economic development" just like this would have pssed with no problem. But if the area is not blighted, then local government is abusing their authority and assaulting our rights.
07-09-2005 07:30 AM
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Post: #58
 
RebelKev Wrote:Oh, and can someone PULEEZE explain the definition of a "moderate" to me. I'm a Libertarian, but I'm not moderate on ANYTHING.
If you ask me it is someone who thinks for themselves and does not accept a line of force fed bull**** from the popular politicals stances whether they be don't change anything or change everything.
07-09-2005 07:34 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #59
 
JTiger Wrote:Because of her small size? It's called a c-section.
I'll be sure to order to the doctors to do that when I see someone else arrive at the hospital with one foot sticking out.
07-09-2005 12:25 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #60
 
JTiger Wrote:Haven't you heard, we have a new definition from HuskieDan on when a life is a true life according to the US government. :roflol:
You either missed or you're dodging the point entirely.
07-09-2005 12:27 PM
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