tigernole79 Wrote:I find it very interesting that this conversation has equated religion with a belief in Santa. Unfortunately, too many people view God as a cosmic Santa that we pray to with our wish list and hope He grants it. One of the most important concepts taught in the Bible is the Holiness of God. It is that holiness that keeps Him seperate from a sinful mankind.
The Bible clearly states that all have sinned, and deep down I hope everyone understands and admits this fact. It doesn't mean that you don't sin if your good outweighs your bad, just once you sin... you have sinned. Then the Bible says that the penalty of that sin is death, which is a spiritual death and seperation from a Holy God.
Now, I will say that I have family friends that are not Christians that make me look bad with their level of giving and volunteering in the community, but I do believe that if they die, they will spend an eternity in hell apart from the salvation through Jesus.
Is that fair, not necessarily (at least according to our beliefs), but the Bible does spell out that God sent Jesus to die a brutal death to pay the penalty of our sins and all we have to do is accept it and make him savior and lord.
If I offer to give someone tickets to a football game and they don't take them, is it my fault that they didn't get to go to the game?
The Santa comments have all been tongue-in-cheek.
But to your points, those are all based on the assumption that you believe the Bible to be a) true & accurate and b) actually inspired by God. I tend to think that the Bible is simply written by man as passed down from other men as they remembered or documented those teachings. I also happen to think that "sin" is nothing more than someone's definition of morality that was passed down. Certain things that are sins I consider as simply wrong (murder, stealing, essentially any action that has a victim).
For example, take the Ten Commandments:
1) Do not worship other gods: self-explanatory. If the objective is for you to believe in God, it should certainly be a sin to worship something/someone else.
2) False idols: see #1
3) Don't misuse the name of God: see #1
4) Keep the Sabbath holy: surely not a sin either way
5) Honor your father & mother: good principles to live by, but it's not a sin not to, especially if they aren't honorable people.
6) Do not murder: obviously there's clear victim here. It's simply wrong.
7) Do not commit adultery: again, there are victims- the spouses, children, etc. However, if two couples willingly swap, or if one spouse gives permission to the other to freely have sex with whomever, is it a sin or just different morals? There's no victim if they're all agreeable, so I'd say not a sin. However, 99% of the time adultery isn't consentual and there is a victim. In those cases it's definitely wrong.
8) Do not steal: obvious victim
9) Do not lie: Generally, there's a victim. However, I do believe that you can lie without it being a sin. For example, if you found out someone else was lying to their spouse and you lied to them to avoid getting involved in someone else's matters, I don't see that as a sin. You have the right not to get involved in someone else's matters.
10) Do not covet. Coveting is not a sin, but may lead to actually committing an act to actually obtain that which you covet, which would make it stealing or adultering. The act is wrong, the thought isn't.
"Sin" is a term that covers most actions that are simply wrong, with some extras thrown in to try to condition certain behaviors and also reinforce belief in God. Most people know right from wrong regardless of religious affiliation. If it hurts someone else, it's usually wrong.
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for those of you who take the bible literally...
Church provides that foundation for your family & I applaud that. For mine, it's struggling a little more financially than we need to in order for my wife to stay home with the kids.
