Something to chew on during this Hot Stove League period for college football: How would the 2010 Huskie team have done against FSU?

Quite well I think. Let's compare the offenses of our '10 and '12 teams.

Offensive Line
The '12 team had an undersized and inexperienced O-line with only something like 2 total starts prior to '12, and they played the Orange Bowl without our starting left tackle Tyler Loos. Their starting lineup for the OB consisted of two freshmen, one sophomore and two juniors. Only two guys (Volk and Krempel) were over 300 pounds. The '10 team had a big and experienced O-line with Trevor Olson and Joe Pawlak having started in previous years. The three guys who were first-year starters in '10 (Pegram, Wedige, Otis) were a sophomore and two juniors and all were over 300 pounds, as were Olson and Pawlak. The '10 starting lineup included one sophomore and four juniors. These guys were bigger and more experienced than the '12s and comprised one of the better O-lines we've ever had at NIU, arguably the best. This year's team played valiantly against FSU but the '10s would have done much better.

Quarterback
Lynch is a great player for us but the end of '10 version of Chandler Harnish had about twice as many starts under his belt, including several against BCS level competition. He was not quite the runner Lynch is but FSU wasn't going to let our QB run anyway. The difference in the OB is that his line would have given him a bit more time to throw and his experience would probably have made him a bit cooler back there unlike Lynch who surely would like at least three throws back (the two missed guys downfield and the pick). No knock on Lynch, it's impossible to be prepared for that big stage until you've experienced it and Harnish had more experience.

Running Back
Huge difference here. The '12s basically didn't have a running back for the OB. We hardly had a running back for the regular season and Akeem Daniels, who was coming on late, was banged up for the OB. Compare that to the '10s who had a stud running back in Chad Spann, one of our best ever. I don't know how many yards he would have gotten in the OB but FSU would have absolutely had to account for both Spann and Harnish in the running game, thus opening up other opportunities.

Wide Receiver
The '12 team had excellent receiver play all season from Martel Moore, Tommylee Lewis and Perez Ashford, backed up by numerous others including Jayme Wells and DaRon Brown, with Akeem Daniels contributing too. The '10s were deeper IMHO with not only Moore and Ashford but Nathan Palmer, Willie Clark and Landon Cox. The 10s had a few more legit targets along with some awesome blockers in Clark and Cox. I have to give them the edge.

Defense
I'm too lazy to break down the defenses in detail. They were comparable in terms of overall effectiveness. I would say the '12s had a deeper D-line and they did a tremendous job in the OB. Overall the biggest difference between the two teams was on offense as noted above.

Summary
The '10s would have made it an interesting game for sure. Not saying they would win but it would have been a heck of a game. We hung around as it was, in part because FSU let us but still. The '10s may have had what it takes to make them pay for that.

Who would win when its the '10 team vs '12 team?

I've thought about this, but I can't say for sure what the 2010 team would've done because we're never gonna see it. 2010 is personally the most talented NIU team I've ever seen (not the best, but the most talented and granted I've only been following NIU closely since 2006), but I don't know how they would've done against them.

I'll take 2010's offense because of Spann and the O-Line as a whole, but I can say for certain that this year's defense was better than the 2010 defense though.

Coffman was great, but as a whole the D-Line this year was better than 2010.

Linebackers are kind of a push, Clark being the only holdover. Butler was a little better than Jacques, but I say Bass was better than Kube only because Kube was a converted safety.

Secondary is no contest. Cornerbacks are close, but I give the edge to Melvin and Moore/Evans over Chris Smith and Patrick George. Safety? Give me Jimmie Ward and Durante/Stone over Tommy Davis and Mike Sobol any day of the year.

And you left out one big thing. Raise your hand if you'd rather have Jerry Kill and his coaching staff over Dave Doeren and his coaching staff? *Crickets*

How about the '03 team?

If we're gonna make this comparison, let's lay out the starters for all 3 phases from both teams and the coaches. Both teams rotated a lot of guys at different positions, so I'm going to list up to 5 guys for a position in some cases like WR and DL.

Also, this is purely to gauge which team had the most talent in your opinion. This isn't a question of who's better. 2012 will go down as the best team in NIU history until another team goes undefeated or wins a BCS game. 2010 team didn't even win the MAC (even though they should have).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I remember it.

QB - Harnish (2010) | Lynch (2012)
RB - Spann/Crider/Bell/Hopkins (2010) | Daniels/Settle/Harris Jr. (2012)
FB - Skarb/Flahive (2010) | Eakes/Sterling (2012)
WR - Clark/Cox/Palmer/Moore/Ashford (2010) | Moore/Ashford/TLL/Brown/Wells (2012)
TE - Schepler/Marks (2010) | Schepler/Maxwell (2012)
LT - Olson (2010) | Loos/Brown (2012)
LG - Pegram (2010) | Volk (2012)
C - Wedige (2010) | Ness (2012)
RG - Pawlak (2010) | Conlon/Pitt (2012)
RT - Otis (2010) | Brown/Krempel (2012)

DE - Progar/Coffman/Baxter/Bolding (2010) | Progar/Baxter/Rainey/Windsor (2012)
DT - Krause/Pirkle/Jefferson/Lawson (2010) | Jefferson/Bishop/Wells/Gordon (2012)
OLB - Clark (2010) | Clark (2012)
MLB - Butler (2010) | Jacques/Mays (2012)
OLB - Kube (2010) | Bass (2012)
CB - Smith/George/Melvin (2010) | Melvin/Moore/Evans (2012)
S - Davis/Sobol/Wilson (2010) | Ward/Stone/Durante (2012)

K - Cklamovski (2010) | Sims (2012)
P - Wilber (2010) | Neir (2012)
DS - Owen (2010) | Mayer (2012)

Coaches - Kill/Tuke (2010) | Doeren/Carey (2012)

Bold the names of the ones you'd pick.

On what if sports, ran 10 simulations on a neutral field. 2012 beat 2010 6 times out of 10.

I think yes because of a capable throwing QB.

This just occurred to me too. Instead of Carey, we'd have had Tuke as our head coach for the Orange Bowl. Can you imagine his press conferences in Miami?

(02-12-2013 04:09 PM)niusfactuary Wrote:  On what if sports, ran 10 simulations on a neutral field. 2012 beat 2010 6 times out of 10.

2010 with Kill or Tuke as coach?
vs
2012 with Doeren or Carey as coach?

2012 with an injured Akeem or 100% Akeem?
2012 with Pegram & Loos or without?


lots of what ifs...

(02-12-2013 04:01 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  If we're gonna make this comparison, let's lay out the starters for all 3 phases from both teams and the coaches. Both teams rotated a lot of guys at different positions, so I'm going to list up to 5 guys for a position in some cases like WR and DL.

Also, this is purely to gauge which team had the most talent in your opinion. This isn't a question of who's better. 2012 will go down as the best team in NIU history until another team goes undefeated or wins a BCS game. 2010 team didn't even win the MAC (even though they should have).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I remember it.

QB - Harnish (2010) | Lynch (2012)
RB - Spann/Crider/Bell/Hopkins (2010) | Daniels/Settle/Harris Jr. (2012)
FB - Skarb/Flahive (2010) | Eakes/Sterling (2012)
WR - Clark/Cox/Palmer/Moore/Ashford (2010) | Moore/Ashford/TLL/Brown/Wells (2012)
TE - Schepler/Marks (2010) | Schepler/Maxwell (2012)
LT - Olson (2010) | Loos/Brown (2012)
LG - Pegram (2010) | Volk (2012)
C - Wedige (2010) | Ness (2012)
RG - Pawlak (2010) | Conlon/Pitt (2012)
RT - Otis (2010) | Brown/Krempel (2012)

DE - Progar/Coffman/Baxter/Bolding (2010) | Progar/Baxter/Rainey/Windsor (2012)
DT - Krause/Pirkle/Jefferson/Lawson (2010) | Jefferson/Bishop/Wells/Gordon (2012)
OLB - Clark (2010) | Clark (2012)
MLB - Butler (2010) | Jacques/Mays (2012)
OLB - Kube (2010) | Bass (2012)
CB - Smith/George/Melvin (2010) | Melvin/Moore/Evans (2012)
S - Davis/Sobol/Wilson (2010) | Ward/Stone/Durante (2012)

K - Cklamovski (2010) | Sims (2012)
P - Wilber (2010) | Neir (2012)
DS - Owen (2010) | Mayer (2012)

Coaches - Kill/Tuke (2010) | Doeren/Carey (2012)

Bold the names of the ones you'd pick.

This would be OK if you were trying to figure out which team was better overall. I was asking which would do better in the Orange Bowl, the team that actually played that night or the team that played the Potato Bowl. The team that played in the Orange Bowl didn't have Settle or Harris at running back, Loos at O-line or Marlon Moore at corner. They also had a banged-up Daniels. That team is not as good as the '10s in my opinion.

Regarding which NIU team was best overall you would have to say the '12s because they got to the Orange Bowl. But if you played a round robin between the '03, '10, '11 and '12 teams and they all played their best the '10s would win every time.

(02-12-2013 04:01 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  QB - Harnish (2010) | Lynch (2012)
RB - Spann/Crider/Bell/Hopkins (2010) | Daniels/Settle/Harris Jr. (2012)
FB - Skarb/Flahive (2010) | Eakes/Sterling (2012)
WR - Clark/Cox/Palmer/Moore/Ashford (2010) | Moore/Ashford/TLL/Brown/Wells (2012)
TE - Schepler/Marks (2010) | Schepler/Maxwell (2012)
LT - Olson (2010) | Loos/Brown (2012)
LG - Pegram (2010) | Volk (2012)
C - Wedige (2010) | Ness (2012)
RG - Pawlak (2010) | Conlon/Pitt (2012)
RT - Otis (2010) | Brown/Krempel (2012)

DE - Progar/Coffman/Baxter/Bolding (2010) | Progar/Baxter/Rainey/Windsor (2012)
DT - Krause/Pirkle/Jefferson/Lawson (2010) | Jefferson/Bishop/Wells/Gordon (2012)
OLB - Clark (2010) | Clark (2012)
MLB - Butler (2010) | Jacques/Mays (2012)
OLB - Kube (2010) | Bass (2012)
CB - Smith/George/Melvin (2010) | Melvin/Moore/Evans (2012)
S - Davis/Sobol/Wilson (2010) | Ward/Stone/Durante (2012)

K - Cklamovski (2010) | Sims (2012)
P - Wilber (2010) | Neir (2012)
DS - Owen (2010) | Mayer (2012)

Coaches - Kill/Tuke (2010) | Doeren/Carey (2012)

Bold the names of the ones you'd pick.

My take. I was torn on quite a few of them though.

(02-12-2013 04:51 PM)NIU1981 Wrote:  

(02-12-2013 04:01 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  If we're gonna make this comparison, let's lay out the starters for all 3 phases from both teams and the coaches. Both teams rotated a lot of guys at different positions, so I'm going to list up to 5 guys for a position in some cases like WR and DL.

Also, this is purely to gauge which team had the most talent in your opinion. This isn't a question of who's better. 2012 will go down as the best team in NIU history until another team goes undefeated or wins a BCS game. 2010 team didn't even win the MAC (even though they should have).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I remember it.

QB - Harnish (2010) | Lynch (2012)
RB - Spann/Crider/Bell/Hopkins (2010) | Daniels/Settle/Harris Jr. (2012)
FB - Skarb/Flahive (2010) | Eakes/Sterling (2012)
WR - Clark/Cox/Palmer/Moore/Ashford (2010) | Moore/Ashford/TLL/Brown/Wells (2012)
TE - Schepler/Marks (2010) | Schepler/Maxwell (2012)
LT - Olson (2010) | Loos/Brown (2012)
LG - Pegram (2010) | Volk (2012)
C - Wedige (2010) | Ness (2012)
RG - Pawlak (2010) | Conlon/Pitt (2012)
RT - Otis (2010) | Brown/Krempel (2012)

DE - Progar/Coffman/Baxter/Bolding (2010) | Progar/Baxter/Rainey/Windsor (2012)
DT - Krause/Pirkle/Jefferson/Lawson (2010) | Jefferson/Bishop/Wells/Gordon (2012)
OLB - Clark (2010) | Clark (2012)
MLB - Butler (2010) | Jacques/Mays (2012)
OLB - Kube (2010) | Bass (2012)
CB - Smith/George/Melvin (2010) | Melvin/Moore/Evans (2012)
S - Davis/Sobol/Wilson (2010) | Ward/Stone/Durante (2012)

K - Cklamovski (2010) | Sims (2012)
P - Wilber (2010) | Neir (2012)
DS - Owen (2010) | Mayer (2012)

Coaches - Kill/Tuke (2010) | Doeren/Carey (2012)

Bold the names of the ones you'd pick.

This would be OK if you were trying to figure out which team was better overall. I was asking which would do better in the Orange Bowl, the team that actually played that night or the team that played the Potato Bowl.

Isn't that essentially asking which team was better?

2012 wideouts are better overall and much more athletic. Might not ever see that good of a group again.

(02-12-2013 08:34 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  2012 wideouts are better overall and much more athletic. Might not ever see that good of a group again.

Sorry, but for me NaPalm tips the scale just enough to 2010.

(02-12-2013 04:16 PM)7 Wrote:  I think yes because of a capable throwing QB.

This is BS. Jordan Lynch did not have a good Orange Bowl. Jordan Lynch is a capable throwing QB who just completed the greatest QB season in NIU History. Was Harnish more experienced and polished?...yes, you can also legitimately make the argument that he was a better QB, but don't say Jordan Lynch isn't a capable throwing QB... that is simply ignorant.

side note: How did Harnish do when facing elite teams in his career, Wisconsin, TCU, etc?

The 2010 team had a really tough time against the 2 BCS conference teams it faced - unranked Illinois(7-6) and unranked Iowa State(5-7).That team also lost the MAC championship to Miami(OH).

I would assume a MAC championship, and going 1-1 during the regular season against BCS teams, would make the 2012 team much better.

Based on the results on the field during the 2010 season, I doubt the result of the OB game would have been any different and possibly a larger margin of defeat.

(02-12-2013 10:16 PM)PiKappNoleATL Wrote:  The 2010 team had a really tough time against the 2 BCS conference teams it faced - unranked Illinois(7-6) and unranked Iowa State(5-7).That team also lost the MAC championship to Miami(OH).

I would assume a MAC championship, and going 1-1 during the regular season against BCS teams, would make the 2012 team much better.

Based on the results on the field during the 2010 season, I doubt the result of the OB game would have been any different and possibly a larger margin of defeat.

The QB we had playing against Iowa State was neither Harnish nor Lynch, so let's leave it at that.

Go to this site to see some of the highlights from 2010. http://www.godawgz.com/NIU2010fb.html

(02-12-2013 10:16 PM)PiKappNoleATL Wrote:  The 2010 team had a really tough time against the 2 BCS conference teams it faced - unranked Illinois(7-6) and unranked Iowa State(5-7).That team also lost the MAC championship to Miami(OH).

I would assume a MAC championship, and going 1-1 during the regular season against BCS teams, would make the 2012 team much better.

Based on the results on the field during the 2010 season, I doubt the result of the OB game would have been any different and possibly a larger margin of defeat.

They lost to Iowa State because the starting QB didn't play. One could argue they lost the Illinois game because the starting QB didn't play against Iowa State too. They also lost the MAC Championship game because their coach had one foot out the door, and it still took one of the all time fluke plays in football history to beat them.

The 2010 team could have given the Florida State a better game because it had a strong, physical running back (Spann), a better OL than the 2012 team, and a QB who could make plays with just his arm when when his running game was shut down.

Ok...no starting QB and staff changes...but the next year when that QB was a senior and playing Wisconsin on a neutral field, that game was really ugly. Also that 2011 team lost to the other BCS team it played...Kansas. It would lose later to CMU in the MAC regular season.

By the way, FSU put the same beat down on Wisconsin in the 2008 Citrus Bowl with a much less talented team than in the OB this year...interesting side note to that bowl game - Dave Doeren was the D-Coordinator for Wisconsin at that time.

I think the NIU of 2012 was a much better squad based on the results from the team. Not sure when you make a BCS bowl game, how any other team could be viewed as better. It is a no brainer for FSU fans that the 99 National Championship team is better than the 93 Championship team. It went wire to wire #1 and undefeated while the 93 team had one loss.

(02-12-2013 10:29 PM)PiKappNoleATL Wrote:  Ok...no starting QB and staff changes...but the next year when that QB was a senior and playing Wisconsin on a neutral field, that game was really ugly. Also that 2011 team lost to the other BCS team it played...Kansas. It would lose later to CMU in the MAC regular season.

By the way, FSU put the same beat down on Wisconsin in the 2008 Citrus Bowl with a much less talented team than in the OB this year...interesting side note to that bowl game - Dave Doeren was the D-Coordinator for Wisconsin at that time.

I think the NIU of 2012 was a much better squad based on the results from the team. Not sure when you make a BCS bowl game, how any other team could be viewed as better. It is a no brainer for FSU fans that the 99 National Championship team is better than the 93 Championship team. It went wire to wire #1 and undefeated while the 93 team had one loss.

I gotta say I agree with PiKapp.