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How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.

And we did NOTHING on offense against Wisconsin when Harnish was in there. Lynch had a very nice deep ball against FSU. And I've seen some other nice long passes too. Both QB's had clunker passes sometimes. If Harnish is better it isn't by much, and might be attributed to him playing 4 years.
02-13-2013 02:14 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:11 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.
You have got to be kidding. Harnish would not have had -1 yards passing in the 2nd half. Also, Harnish ran for 1400 yards last year, when did he turn into Dan Marino?

You made it sound like Harnish was immune to the clunker, and he sure was not.
02-13-2013 02:14 PM
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7 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.

And we did NOTHING on offense against Wisconsin when Harnish was in there. Lynch had a very nice deep ball against FSU. And I've seen some other nice long passes too. Both QB's had clunker passes sometimes. If Harnish is better it isn't by much, and might be attributed to him playing 4 years.
Yeah that deep ball he threw to Martel in the 4th quarter that was 5 yards over his head when he was wide open was a thing of beauty. Come on now, even the announcers said he was missing passes he couldn't miss. A large reason our offense struggled so much against FSU was because of how inaccurate Lynch was.

Harnish isn't better by much. They're both great players, but Harnish was clearly the better passer.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 02:19 PM by 7.)
02-13-2013 02:17 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:17 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.

And we did NOTHING on offense against Wisconsin when Harnish was in there. Lynch had a very nice deep ball against FSU. And I've seen some other nice long passes too. Both QB's had clunker passes sometimes. If Harnish is better it isn't by much, and might be attributed to him playing 4 years.
Yeah that deep ball he threw to Martel in the 4th quarter that was 5 yards over his head when he was wide open was a thing of beauty. Come on now, even the announcers said he was missing passes he couldn't miss. A large reason our offense struggled so much against FSU was because of how inaccurate Lynch was.

Harnish isn't better by much. They're both great players, but Harnish was clearly the better passer.

Harnish's biggest advantage over Lynch is the accuracy on short timing sideline passes. Harnish would rarely miss and actually allow the receiver to stay in stride. I think its easy to forget some of harnish's poorer passing games though like the 12/25 130 yard performance in the International Bowl. And obviously Harnish never face a team with the speed of FSU.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 02:23 PM by MaddDawgz02.)
02-13-2013 02:22 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:17 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.

And we did NOTHING on offense against Wisconsin when Harnish was in there. Lynch had a very nice deep ball against FSU. And I've seen some other nice long passes too. Both QB's had clunker passes sometimes. If Harnish is better it isn't by much, and might be attributed to him playing 4 years.
Yeah that deep ball he threw to Martel in the 4th quarter that was 5 yards over his head when he was wide open was a thing of beauty. Come on now, even the announcers said he was missing passes he couldn't miss. A large reason our offense struggled so much against FSU was because of how inaccurate Lynch was.

Harnish isn't better by much. They're both great players, but Harnish was clearly the better passer.

You're using evidence from one game, I'm using numbers for an entire season. Harnish was probably a little better passer his last 2 years, but he played 4 years. I don't consider that evidence that Lynch will never get to be as good a passer (or nearly so) as Harnish.
02-13-2013 02:27 PM
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BarsemaBone2 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:13 PM)Turner4Heisman Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:11 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.
You have got to be kidding. Harnish would not have had -1 yards passing in the 2nd half. Also, Harnish ran for 1400 yards last year, when did he turn into Dan Marino?

Why are you comparing Senior Year Harnish to Junior Year Lynch anyways?

I think he's trying to say that had Harnish had to do in 2010 what he did in 2011, he could have. The difference was that in 2010 he had Chad Spann in the backfield with him, so he didn't have to carry the ball as much. Plus, DD's offenses relied a lot more on the QB running the ball than Kill's did.

And for anybody that says they'd take the receivers we had last year over the ones we had 2 years ago, are you really sure about that? Take Martel and Ashford out of the equation because they were the only holdovers, but you'd really rather have TLL, Da'ron Brown, and Jamison Wells over Na-Palm, Landon Cox, and Willie Clark?
02-13-2013 02:41 PM
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7 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
Yes, exactly. I think if Harnish was running DD's/Canada's offense in 2010 he would have pretty similar numbers that he did in 2011. I don't think he was much better as a senior that he was as a junior, he was just in a different system.
02-13-2013 02:56 PM
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7 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:17 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:03 PM)7 Wrote:  Of our 12 wins last year, do we lose any with Harnish playing instead of Lynch?

Do we beat Iowa with Harnish playing? Yes...

And Florida State would have scored 50+ against the 2010 team? WHAT?

Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.

And we did NOTHING on offense against Wisconsin when Harnish was in there. Lynch had a very nice deep ball against FSU. And I've seen some other nice long passes too. Both QB's had clunker passes sometimes. If Harnish is better it isn't by much, and might be attributed to him playing 4 years.
Yeah that deep ball he threw to Martel in the 4th quarter that was 5 yards over his head when he was wide open was a thing of beauty. Come on now, even the announcers said he was missing passes he couldn't miss. A large reason our offense struggled so much against FSU was because of how inaccurate Lynch was.

Harnish isn't better by much. They're both great players, but Harnish was clearly the better passer.

You're using evidence from one game, I'm using numbers for an entire season. Harnish was probably a little better passer his last 2 years, but he played 4 years. I don't consider that evidence that Lynch will never get to be as good a passer (or nearly so) as Harnish.
I don't you think you can compare their numbers from both of their junior years though, they were asked to do two completely different things.

My argument isn't even numbers based, though. Lynch does not have the pure passing skills to get him in the NFL as a QB. Harnish does.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 02:58 PM by 7.)
02-13-2013 02:57 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 02:57 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:17 PM)7 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-13-2013 02:07 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  Not ready to say we would have beaten Iowa with Harnish, Harnish probably doesnt run for a 75 yard TD. Harnish was lucky enough to have a veteran offensive line behind him for most of his time. Harnish nearly lost to North Dakota/EMU at home. I could have seen us dropping the BSU game if not for Lynch's big plays. The WMU game could have been one to get away if not for Lynch also.

And we did NOTHING on offense against Wisconsin when Harnish was in there. Lynch had a very nice deep ball against FSU. And I've seen some other nice long passes too. Both QB's had clunker passes sometimes. If Harnish is better it isn't by much, and might be attributed to him playing 4 years.
Yeah that deep ball he threw to Martel in the 4th quarter that was 5 yards over his head when he was wide open was a thing of beauty. Come on now, even the announcers said he was missing passes he couldn't miss. A large reason our offense struggled so much against FSU was because of how inaccurate Lynch was.

Harnish isn't better by much. They're both great players, but Harnish was clearly the better passer.

You're using evidence from one game, I'm using numbers for an entire season. Harnish was probably a little better passer his last 2 years, but he played 4 years. I don't consider that evidence that Lynch will never get to be as good a passer (or nearly so) as Harnish.
I don't you think you can compare their numbers from both of their junior years though, they were asked to do two completely different things.

My argument isn't even numbers based, though. Lynch does not have the pure passing skills to get him in the NFL as a QB. Harnish does.

At the beginning of Harnish's junior year, he didn't look like he had the skills for the NFL either. Not even close. Anyway, whether they could play in the NFL wasn't the question. I'm talking about college football, can Lynch be as good as or better than Harnish. I think he can be as good, maybe even better, as his arm is strong. The other thing is, I wasn't comparing their junior years. I was comparing Lynch last year vs. Harnish's senior season.

Both were asked to pass the ball. They had very similar numbers of pass attempts. Both threw short passes, middle-range passes, and long passes. Lynch had a lesser running game behind him and a much newer offensive line. What did Harnish have to do that Lynch didn't? If anything, Lynch had to pass while taking more of a beating from running the ball.
02-13-2013 06:01 PM
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PiKappNoleATL Offline
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RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
For those that try to justify the 3 losses in 2010 and 2011, a hall of fame coach once said "You are what your record is." It was Bill Parcells. He is absolutely right.

As much as I think that FSU was a really strong team last year, they were what their record was. 2 loss team and champions of a weak BCS conference.

Of course I hate the fact we lost to NC State, but we didn't score a single point in the second half. Great teams don't let that happen. Against Florida, we had the lead, at home, near the end of the 3rd quarter. 5 turnovers and you end up losing. Great teams again don't let that happen.

FSU was an 11-2 team and have an ACC Championship and BCS win over a strong team. But they were not championship caliber based on the results of the season.

Single loss in overtime can be justified...not sure how you can do that with 3 losses in one season. Sorry but those teams in '10 and '11 are not as good as you think and the 2012 team is the best NIU has ever had.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 08:24 PM by PiKappNoleATL.)
02-13-2013 08:13 PM
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HuskieJWN Offline
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RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 08:13 PM)PiKappNoleATL Wrote:  For those that try to justify the 3 losses in 2010 and 2011, a hall of fame coach once said "You are what your record is." It was Bill Parcells. He is absolutely right.

As much as I think that FSU was a really strong team last year, they were what their record was. 2 loss team and champions of a weak BCS conference.

Of course I hate the fact we lost to NC State, but we didn't score a single point in the second half. Great teams don't let that happen. Against Florida, we had the lead, at home, near the end of the 3rd quarter. 5 turnovers and you end up losing. Great teams again don't let that happen.

FSU was an 11-2 team and have an ACC Championship and BCS win over a strong team. But they were not championship caliber based on the results of the season.

Single loss in overtime can be justified...not sure how you can do that with 3 losses in one season. Sorry but those teams in '10 and '11 are not as good as you think and the 2012 team is the best NIU has ever had.

Sometimes I disagree with that old adage, I mean I watch the Bears a lot and they go 12-4 when I don't think they are a 12-4 team. But you're absolutely right. I think FSU had the talent to be a National championship team. But they didnt always play up to their ability. Yes, everyone is saying the 2010 team blew everyone out, but the MAC wasn't as strong that year. 2012 didn't beat everyone by 50, but we beat every MAC opponent by at least a TD. Collectively, I still think this 2012 team is better. Yes, 2010 had Spann which would have helped immensely, but their was something extra about this 2012 team. They were a bit more gritty, they were a bit better defensively, and they knew what winning was all about, the 2010 team had to figure that out as the season went on. The 2012 had a hiccup in the Iowa game and rolled on, they absolutely obliterated two of the better MAC teams on the stat sheet and realistically should have beat Kent by at least 17. This 2012 team was exactly what their record indicates, a very very good 12-2 team that faced one of the most talented teams in the country on New Years Day. Harnish may have been more developed as a passer, but does he hit Akeem with a perfect pass, scramble and get Tommylee a nice pass on a 3rd and 6, does he constantly take hits, does he knock over a few Seminoles on his way to get tackled, I don't think he does. Our chances with were best with Lynch, anytime a team with that much talent has 30plus days to prepare for 80-90 percent of an offense, they will prevail. 2012 is the best NIU team to collectively hit the field, that means offense as a unit, defense as a unit, special teams, coaches, and the guys who are role players and cheer from the sidelines. I mean a guy who is a fan of one of the most talented teams in the country says FSU got a win over a strong team in the OB. I see the points to all the arguments, but all roads lead back to overall team and the fact Jordan Lynch is a bit more dynamic than Chandler. I will take the 2012 Huskies and JL as giving us our best shot against anyone. Thanks for your insight PiKappa, always good to get an outside perspective on things like this. 04-cheers
02-14-2013 12:12 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-13-2013 08:13 PM)PiKappNoleATL Wrote:  For those that try to justify the 3 losses in 2010 and 2011, a hall of fame coach once said "You are what your record is." It was Bill Parcells. He is absolutely right.

As much as I think that FSU was a really strong team last year, they were what their record was. 2 loss team and champions of a weak BCS conference.

Of course I hate the fact we lost to NC State, but we didn't score a single point in the second half. Great teams don't let that happen. Against Florida, we had the lead, at home, near the end of the 3rd quarter. 5 turnovers and you end up losing. Great teams again don't let that happen.

FSU was an 11-2 team and have an ACC Championship and BCS win over a strong team. But they were not championship caliber based on the results of the season.

Single loss in overtime can be justified...not sure how you can do that with 3 losses in one season. Sorry but those teams in '10 and '11 are not as good as you think and the 2012 team is the best NIU has ever had.

I think it depends on when you ask the question. The 2003 team was very strong at the beginning of the year, but some injuries, without the depth to replace people, had us as just a good team later in the year. The 2011 team was very young defensively so was pretty bad early on but finally came together some in the last 3-4 games of 2011.

In terms of the entire year, I think 2010 and 2012 are pretty close. Against FSU Harnish's experience probably would have been a better bet, vs. Lynch's better running. But I don't think it would have made a big difference in that game.
02-14-2013 09:29 AM
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NSwanson89 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
I think a better question to ponder is: How would 2012's team have fared against FSU if Lynch hadn't opened his fat mouth a week before the game?
02-14-2013 11:19 AM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-14-2013 11:19 AM)NSwanson89 Wrote:  I think a better question to ponder is: How would 2012's team have fared against FSU if Lynch hadn't opened his fat mouth a week before the game?

03-lmfao
02-14-2013 11:29 AM
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thxjoenovak Offline
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RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
(02-14-2013 11:19 AM)NSwanson89 Wrote:  I think a better question to ponder is: How would 2012's team have fared against FSU if Lynch hadn't opened his fat mouth a week before the game?

+1

We'll never know, but that's one he'd like to have back (along with that interception.) IMHO there is no doubt he got the Defense of FSU's attention more than it would have been without the quote.
02-14-2013 12:16 PM
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7 Offline
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RE: How would the '10 Huskies have done against FSU?
Probably the same. He didn't open his mouth before the Iowa game.
02-14-2013 08:54 PM
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