(08-23-2017 12:51 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

He did a good job recruiting and winning in the regular season during his first 4 or 5 seasons. I am not sure if his downfalls were that evident until we were able to see what Self did with Black at Kansas. Once that happened, we started noticing things that was overlooked due to what most would consider, good regular season results. You can only complain so much about a guy who had teams with 5 straight 24+ game winning seasons, a 4 straight NCAA appearances.

Biggest problem IMO, is that he got elevated to superstar status before accomplishing much of anything. People loved him that first year, which was an NIT appearance. By the time people came back down to reality they were mad.

Could be true.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-24-2017 02:26 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  But the bashing of P was off the charts as well. When he brought in one JUCO (Burrell), people went nutso. Or when he hired Keelon...he was doomed if he didn't doomed if he did.

But the best irony of all is this. Some of the same people who now support the Tplan tell us that bashing is bad for Tiger health.

I think I used that same argument too at one time. lol.

shrug.

I try not to bash any current coach. That just seems like a wise way to proceed.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-24-2017 07:39 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What does that have to do with Connor Vanover?

Future progress toward a goal if we get him?

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

I'm not seeing bashing. There's plenty of real data that supports what we can 'expect' from our team this year based on factual stats.


Anyone paid 3.1 mill is subject to quality control. It's just the way of the world.

(08-24-2017 07:39 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What does that have to do with Connor Vanover?

(08-24-2017 08:41 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  I'm not seeing bashing. There's plenty of real data that supports what we can 'expect' from our team this year based on factual stats.


Anyone paid 3.1 mill is subject to quality control. It's just the way of the world.

There's been a lot of bashing. You must have been purposefully ignoring them.

(08-24-2017 08:48 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 07:39 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What does that have to do with Connor Vanover?

(08-24-2017 06:59 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 08:20 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:35 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 10:25 PM)450bench Wrote:  I'm really not following this continued and escalating distain for Tubby. Now it's sort of a character assassination of the man. It's truly bizarre to me. Especially since the guy has only coached the team for 1 year.
The criticism of how Tubby handled the Lawson situation is totally wild as well. I know the Lawson family. They aren't bad people and neither are the boys, however, when the oldest boys began being recruited in high school things sort of changed, at least that's my observation. Keelon clearly parlayed the situation into a win for him, on several fronts, leveraging the kids. It happens but it simply went too far.
In my estimation, knowing a little about it, Tubby wanted to give it a chance and did but when the power play escalated, Tubby thought more bad than good was on the horizon so he took a bit more control of the situation and played hardball for the betterment of the team and program. I commend him for that, and if it meant losing 2 key players and possibly more aligned with the Lawsons, so be it.
I kind of see addition by subtraction here without the drama.
Let the thing play out before hurling grenades. At least that's my line of thinking.

Quote:I'm really not following this continued and escalating distain for Tubby.

It started with me when Cal clobbered them. We had so much more talent than them, were much more athletic, better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything.

I was in shock that a program like Kentucky; with every advantage known to man, AND the cheatingest program in NCAA history, could put such a bad team on the floor. Then he sucked at Minnesota and then was forced to work at Texas Tech.

This isn't something new that I came up with last year. I would have felt the same way if we would have hired Bruce Weber, Jeff Capel or Travis Ford.

Maybe you should reconsider after he stomped Pastner's best team at Memphis. Memphis had every advantage known to man. But Minnesota was better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything. They even won with lesser ranked players! The nerve! Not to mention a Memphis kid (a four star recruit, btw) dropped 41 points on us...

Then he won Minnesotas only tournament game in the last twenty years (streak still alive). Then brought an awful Texas Tech team to the tournament after a nine year drought. Beat a number 3 ranked team that year too. Did Pastner ever do that?

Pastner was rightly pushed out for failure to meet minimum performance standards. Tubby, IMO, should not be exempt from the standards, either. Tubby has one NCAA Tourney win in ten seasons (soon to be 11) - an unacceptable result at Memphis. Tubby needs better production at Memphis and it does not look good at the moment that he can do it.

I respectfully disagree. I believe Tubby will overachieve this year relative to his roster and will start to pull in higher talent when they see that happen due to the combination of thet production and the advantages that Memphis does have that others have mentioned. We became a problem brand and I am not surprised that recruits might take a wait and see attitude. If Tubby shows he can overachieve relative to the program as he has at other stops, he will start to get the level of talent you and I would hope to see here.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

You realize most of the top 100 kids will be committed before the season starts. So, you are talking about 2019 kids that would start to be affected by our on court performance.

(08-24-2017 10:11 PM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:48 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 07:39 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What does that have to do with Connor Vanover?

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

(08-25-2017 07:43 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

Pastner got a lot of slack. Tons. I supported him until the last year or so and really wanted him to succeed. After all, if he does well, so do the Tigers. I still like the guy.

We hung in there a little too long though. By the end of his tenure, attendance dropped big time and his best skill (recruiting) was falling off. When he had to hire Keelon to get players, you could tell it was near the end. He left us with a dysfunctional team and some longer term issues. Word got out locally to avoid Memphis like the plague. This came from former players that transferred or were continually thinking about it.

So here we are. A lineup built in April. Probably not going to have a stellar season. But I'm optimistic that Tubby will sign a good 2018 class. Then we turn it around in 2018. Hopefully some of our new players will be very solid players and that will be the core for 2018.

(08-25-2017 08:20 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 07:43 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

Pastner got a lot of slack. Tons. I supported him until the last year or so and really wanted him to succeed. After all, if he does well, so do the Tigers. I still like the guy.

We hung in there a little too long though. By the end of his tenure, attendance dropped big time and his best skill (recruiting) was falling off. When he had to hire Keelon to get players, you could tell it was near the end. He left us with a dysfunctional team and some longer term issues. Word got out locally to avoid Memphis like the plague. This came from former players that transferred or were continually thinking about it.

So here we are. A lineup built in April. Probably not going to have a stellar season. But I'm optimistic that Tubby will sign a good 2018 class. Then we turn it around in 2018. Hopefully some of our new players will be very solid players and that will be the core for 2018.

Did Pastner get slack after his first season? If he did I sure don't remember it.

(08-25-2017 08:45 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 08:20 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 07:43 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

Pastner got a lot of slack. Tons. I supported him until the last year or so and really wanted him to succeed. After all, if he does well, so do the Tigers. I still like the guy.

We hung in there a little too long though. By the end of his tenure, attendance dropped big time and his best skill (recruiting) was falling off. When he had to hire Keelon to get players, you could tell it was near the end. He left us with a dysfunctional team and some longer term issues. Word got out locally to avoid Memphis like the plague. This came from former players that transferred or were continually thinking about it.

So here we are. A lineup built in April. Probably not going to have a stellar season. But I'm optimistic that Tubby will sign a good 2018 class. Then we turn it around in 2018. Hopefully some of our new players will be very solid players and that will be the core for 2018.

Did Pastner get slack after his first season? If he did I sure don't remember it.

Your kidding right. Everytime he landed a new recruit he was granted some more time by some on here...Rightfully so early on because no one knew if the issues where the players or the coach.

Anyone know when Findlay will be playing their first games? I wonder if they will be traveling this way at all.

It would be great to see them play East. Vanover vs. Wiseman and Dandridge.

(08-25-2017 08:45 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 08:20 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 07:43 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

Pastner got a lot of slack. Tons. I supported him until the last year or so and really wanted him to succeed. After all, if he does well, so do the Tigers. I still like the guy.

We hung in there a little too long though. By the end of his tenure, attendance dropped big time and his best skill (recruiting) was falling off. When he had to hire Keelon to get players, you could tell it was near the end. He left us with a dysfunctional team and some longer term issues. Word got out locally to avoid Memphis like the plague. This came from former players that transferred or were continually thinking about it.

So here we are. A lineup built in April. Probably not going to have a stellar season. But I'm optimistic that Tubby will sign a good 2018 class. Then we turn it around in 2018. Hopefully some of our new players will be very solid players and that will be the core for 2018.

Did Pastner get slack after his first season? If he did I sure don't remember it.

Yes he did.

(08-25-2017 09:11 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Anyone know when Findlay will be playing their first games? I wonder if they will be traveling this way at all.

It would be great to see them play East. Vanover vs. Wiseman and Dandridge.

I dunno, but I never even thought of that. I wonder if someone will look>>>> I need caffeine.

(08-25-2017 07:43 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

My exact feelings with Pastner. The reason why I won't have the same patience with Tubby is because we have a sample size of 10 years to work with; which is plenty, and because he hasn't recruited at a high level here.

IF Tubby was recruiting at a high level, I would be happy to put aside my dislike for him because he did very well with Pitino's recruits. Tubby recruiting at a level halfway between what he is used to and Pastner's glory years would be a really good coach and would have us in the Sweet 16 within 3-4 years.

Tubby recruiting at his usual level just isn't a very good basketball coach.

(08-24-2017 10:29 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:59 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 08:20 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:35 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  It started with me when Cal clobbered them. We had so much more talent than them, were much more athletic, better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything.

I was in shock that a program like Kentucky; with every advantage known to man, AND the cheatingest program in NCAA history, could put such a bad team on the floor. Then he sucked at Minnesota and then was forced to work at Texas Tech.

This isn't something new that I came up with last year. I would have felt the same way if we would have hired Bruce Weber, Jeff Capel or Travis Ford.

Maybe you should reconsider after he stomped Pastner's best team at Memphis. Memphis had every advantage known to man. But Minnesota was better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything. They even won with lesser ranked players! The nerve! Not to mention a Memphis kid (a four star recruit, btw) dropped 41 points on us...

Then he won Minnesotas only tournament game in the last twenty years (streak still alive). Then brought an awful Texas Tech team to the tournament after a nine year drought. Beat a number 3 ranked team that year too. Did Pastner ever do that?

Pastner was rightly pushed out for failure to meet minimum performance standards. Tubby, IMO, should not be exempt from the standards, either. Tubby has one NCAA Tourney win in ten seasons (soon to be 11) - an unacceptable result at Memphis. Tubby needs better production at Memphis and it does not look good at the moment that he can do it.

I respectfully disagree. I believe Tubby will overachieve this year relative to his roster and will start to pull in higher talent when they see that happen due to the combination of thet production and the advantages that Memphis does have that others have mentioned. We became a problem brand and I am not surprised that recruits might take a wait and see attitude. If Tubby shows he can overachieve relative to the program as he has at other stops, he will start to get the level of talent you and I would hope to see here.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

You realize most of the top 100 kids will be committed before the season starts. So, you are talking about 2019 kids that would start to be affected by our on court performance.

By March of 2018; I think we will have a crystal clear understanding of what we have with Tubby. If we aren't playing at the level of a top 100 RPI team by the end of the year and we still haven't recruited anyone in the top 100 for the 2018-19 season, Tubby is done, even if we don't fire him.

I am sure that Pierre will be a factor, but the school needed to find a way to have him on the road NOW, not next year. Unless he helps enough for Tubby to pull out a few recruiting miracles for the 2018 class, it will be too late.

(08-25-2017 10:29 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 08:45 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 08:20 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-25-2017 07:43 AM)Tiger57 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 11:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Pastner had slack for 7 years? Proof that Tubby lovers will say ANYTHING, will lie through their teeth to defend him.

I supported Pastner fully until the end of the 2014 season. I feel like he underachieved with what I thought was a elite 8 level roster. The UConn game in the AAC tourney was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will try and have the same patience with Tubby. Probably won't but I will at least give him 3 years before I start calling for his head. This roster was a mess when he arrived.

Pastner got a lot of slack. Tons. I supported him until the last year or so and really wanted him to succeed. After all, if he does well, so do the Tigers. I still like the guy.

We hung in there a little too long though. By the end of his tenure, attendance dropped big time and his best skill (recruiting) was falling off. When he had to hire Keelon to get players, you could tell it was near the end. He left us with a dysfunctional team and some longer term issues. Word got out locally to avoid Memphis like the plague. This came from former players that transferred or were continually thinking about it.

So here we are. A lineup built in April. Probably not going to have a stellar season. But I'm optimistic that Tubby will sign a good 2018 class. Then we turn it around in 2018. Hopefully some of our new players will be very solid players and that will be the core for 2018.

Did Pastner get slack after his first season? If he did I sure don't remember it.

Yes he did.

I'm not talking about this message board. I'm talking about the local sports media. I sure don't remember Lapides, Calkins or Parrish giving him any slack.