(08-24-2017 02:53 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Disagree
Some folks wish to bash...comment is one thing but when every b'ball thread turns into a bash-fest, it's more than just "commenting" IMO

There was a much higher volume of negative Pastner threads that apparently weren't a big deal to many of those defending Tubby.

(08-24-2017 02:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

I'm not quite sure how much validity there is to your statement, so I am not going to argue. I do think a larger factor that goes into recruiting is how many ACTUAL butts are in the seats come gameday. If you have two different schools, that offer similar facilities, playing time, exposure, etc. are you more apt to go to the one with more or fewer fans at the games. I would think more. I feel like a huge advantage that we once had in recruiting was averaging 14K+ fans at each game. The decline in attendance seemed to have VISIBLY declined in the 12-13 season, and it started with the student section, and seemed to slowly progress around the arena.

I spoke in person with a parent of a Tiger recruit and they specifically used the words "bash Tubby". They brought it up and used those words. Honestly, it caught me off guard. I have always squashed the idea that a message board would have any impact on recruiting. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't, but people are obviously paying attention.

There is one thing that cures many ailments though. Just win.

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

It has been the standard practice here and at other boards for at least the past 11 years for posters to craft sharp fact based words about a coach's performance. Furthermore, the advent and expansion of social media during that time has conditioned people to expect criticism.

(08-24-2017 03:43 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

I'm not quite sure how much validity there is to your statement, so I am not going to argue. I do think a larger factor that goes into recruiting is how many ACTUAL butts are in the seats come gameday. If you have two different schools, that offer similar facilities, playing time, exposure, etc. are you more apt to go to the one with more or fewer fans at the games. I would think more. I feel like a huge advantage that we once had in recruiting was averaging 14K+ fans at each game. The decline in attendance seemed to have VISIBLY declined in the 12-13 season, and it started with the student section, and seemed to slowly progress around the arena.

I spoke in person with a parent of a Tiger recruit and they specifically used the words "bash Tubby". They brought it up and used those words. Honestly, it caught me off guard. I have always squashed the idea that a message board would have any impact on recruiting. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't, but people are obviously paying attention.

There is one thing that cures many ailments though. Just win.

Was this during the recruitment process, or later throughout the year? Maybe they were turned onto this site by a forum member? I don't see this site as one that is accidentally stumbled upon. Anything is possible though.

(08-24-2017 03:52 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 03:43 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

I'm not quite sure how much validity there is to your statement, so I am not going to argue. I do think a larger factor that goes into recruiting is how many ACTUAL butts are in the seats come gameday. If you have two different schools, that offer similar facilities, playing time, exposure, etc. are you more apt to go to the one with more or fewer fans at the games. I would think more. I feel like a huge advantage that we once had in recruiting was averaging 14K+ fans at each game. The decline in attendance seemed to have VISIBLY declined in the 12-13 season, and it started with the student section, and seemed to slowly progress around the arena.

I spoke in person with a parent of a Tiger recruit and they specifically used the words "bash Tubby". They brought it up and used those words. Honestly, it caught me off guard. I have always squashed the idea that a message board would have any impact on recruiting. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't, but people are obviously paying attention.

There is one thing that cures many ailments though. Just win.

Was this during the recruitment process, or later throughout the year? Maybe they were turned onto this site by a forum member? I don't see this site as one that is accidentally stumbled upon. Anything is possible though.

He is still being recruited. I'm not sure where the "bash Tubby" comment came from, but a simple Google search of said recruit's name could lead you to a message board. It's really not that hard to find this site.

(08-24-2017 03:43 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

I'm not quite sure how much validity there is to your statement, so I am not going to argue. I do think a larger factor that goes into recruiting is how many ACTUAL butts are in the seats come gameday. If you have two different schools, that offer similar facilities, playing time, exposure, etc. are you more apt to go to the one with more or fewer fans at the games. I would think more. I feel like a huge advantage that we once had in recruiting was averaging 14K+ fans at each game. The decline in attendance seemed to have VISIBLY declined in the 12-13 season, and it started with the student section, and seemed to slowly progress around the arena.

I spoke in person with a parent of a Tiger recruit and they specifically used the words "bash Tubby". They brought it up and used those words. Honestly, it caught me off guard. I have always squashed the idea that a message board would have any impact on recruiting. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't, but people are obviously paying attention.

There is one thing that cures many ailments though. Just win.

I think bash Tubby/bash Pastner means nothing in comparison to the bashing of our players---when they wore Tiger unis and when they left.

That's what I would look at if I were a parent. How much weight is put on the players compared to the head coach who is paid to make a team.


#Austin...#Thomas # Spoon #Lawsons #Black #Jackson #Ferguson #Lynch and so on

(08-24-2017 04:00 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 03:43 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

I'm not quite sure how much validity there is to your statement, so I am not going to argue. I do think a larger factor that goes into recruiting is how many ACTUAL butts are in the seats come gameday. If you have two different schools, that offer similar facilities, playing time, exposure, etc. are you more apt to go to the one with more or fewer fans at the games. I would think more. I feel like a huge advantage that we once had in recruiting was averaging 14K+ fans at each game. The decline in attendance seemed to have VISIBLY declined in the 12-13 season, and it started with the student section, and seemed to slowly progress around the arena.

I spoke in person with a parent of a Tiger recruit and they specifically used the words "bash Tubby". They brought it up and used those words. Honestly, it caught me off guard. I have always squashed the idea that a message board would have any impact on recruiting. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't, but people are obviously paying attention.

There is one thing that cures many ailments though. Just win.

I think bash Tubby/bash Pastner means nothing in comparison to the bashing of our players---when they wore Tiger unis and when they left.

That's what I would look at if I were a parent. How much weight is put on the players compared to the head coach who is paid to make a team.


#Austin...#Thomas # Spoon #Lawsons #Black #Jackson #Ferguson #Lynch and so on

That's a fair point. It would be interesting to live your life in the public eye. Praise comes in volume, but you also have the potential to receive criticism in bulk as well. I suppose you'd have to tune a lot of it out.

(08-24-2017 02:56 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:53 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Disagree
Some folks wish to bash...comment is one thing but when every b'ball thread turns into a bash-fest, it's more than just "commenting" IMO

There was a much higher volume of negative Pastner threads that apparently weren't a big deal to many of those defending Tubby.

Disagree
Not until year 6 did we see the volume we are already seeing with Tubby after year 1

(08-24-2017 04:04 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 04:00 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 03:43 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:23 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:09 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Parents of recruits read the message board and they know Tubby is getting bashed. I used to kinda blow off comments like this, but it's true.

Whether or not it ultimately impacts the decision to sign with us or not (I couldn't tell you), but obviously it's something people are thinking about and it doesn't look good.

I'm not quite sure how much validity there is to your statement, so I am not going to argue. I do think a larger factor that goes into recruiting is how many ACTUAL butts are in the seats come gameday. If you have two different schools, that offer similar facilities, playing time, exposure, etc. are you more apt to go to the one with more or fewer fans at the games. I would think more. I feel like a huge advantage that we once had in recruiting was averaging 14K+ fans at each game. The decline in attendance seemed to have VISIBLY declined in the 12-13 season, and it started with the student section, and seemed to slowly progress around the arena.

I spoke in person with a parent of a Tiger recruit and they specifically used the words "bash Tubby". They brought it up and used those words. Honestly, it caught me off guard. I have always squashed the idea that a message board would have any impact on recruiting. Maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't, but people are obviously paying attention.

There is one thing that cures many ailments though. Just win.

I think bash Tubby/bash Pastner means nothing in comparison to the bashing of our players---when they wore Tiger unis and when they left.

That's what I would look at if I were a parent. How much weight is put on the players compared to the head coach who is paid to make a team.


#Austin...#Thomas # Spoon #Lawsons #Black #Jackson #Ferguson #Lynch and so on

That's a fair point. It would be interesting to live your life in the public eye. Praise comes in volume, but you also have the potential to receive criticism in bulk as well. I suppose you'd have to tune a lot of it out.

Yup...good training for anybody, but excellent training for anyone who might wind up in the public eye.

Learn to tune it all out (praise and criticism) when you're young. Learn not to accept hooklinesinker anything you see on message boards or read on the internet in general.

-- people come and go, talking of Michelangelo.

(08-24-2017 04:50 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:56 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:53 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:24 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  That's not fair or true.
Pastner had no head coaching experience at the college level and was still hired at Memphis. Majority of Memphis fans were willing to give him a chance and Pastner being an overall good human being IMO contributed to the amount of "slack" he was given. 7 years is a long time and things didn't go completely sour until his 6th season.

Folks not willing to give Tubby the requisite amount of time to build this program back is confounding. Even if folks disagree with Tubby's methods, the constant criticism after a year is crazy. Every b'ball related thread turns into Tubby bash. Tubby is going to get a lot less time than Pastner before the fanbase completely gives up on him. If we aren't in the tourney by year 3, it will be time to move on.

I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Disagree
Some folks wish to bash...comment is one thing but when every b'ball thread turns into a bash-fest, it's more than just "commenting" IMO

There was a much higher volume of negative Pastner threads that apparently weren't a big deal to many of those defending Tubby.

Disagree
Not until year 6 did we see the volume we are already seeing with Tubby after year 1

He started it. Tubby started it at the end of year 1. Betcha he was trying his best not to sign a contract and get the heck outta Dodge. lol

Pastner waited many years to say 'How many were vacated?'

The end.

Not the end. In any relationship, whether it be with a fan base or just one person....ya nevah evah say..'you can't expect better....your expectations are too high.' lol

(08-21-2017 11:49 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Explain to me how we will get a bid in our conference. I would like to hear that, for real.

Two from our conference is becoming the norm, one of which is the autobid.

3 is the average. We've had 2, 4, 2, 4 the past 4 years. Before Wichita. 3-4 is the certainly the norm with WSU. Need to get in the top 4 and make it tough on the committee. This year? Doubtful. Next year it should be the expectation.

(08-23-2017 12:00 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner had 7 years. That's a lot of slack.

Yeah. I did a triple-take on that line. Pastner no slack - FOR 7 YEARS. Tubby getting a lot of slack - while getting second guessed on EVERYTHING.

(08-22-2017 02:25 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  I've never seen so much whining about an assistant coach. Lol

To their point, I believe most of it is because of where his first AC job landed. I doubt he would have chosen a 1st year AC that wasn't Saul. I agree that Memphis is too large of a stage to have someone w/out much in the way of credentials being the AC.
[/quote]

Saul would not have been my choice. But to be clear, this isn't Saul's first AC job. He served at TN Tech to start his career and then he was an AC at Minny. And the HC has the right to hire anyone he wanted. I said it with Pastner and Keelon, and I'll say it when Tubby is gone.

(08-22-2017 08:20 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:35 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 10:25 PM)450bench Wrote:  I'm really not following this continued and escalating distain for Tubby. Now it's sort of a character assassination of the man. It's truly bizarre to me. Especially since the guy has only coached the team for 1 year.
The criticism of how Tubby handled the Lawson situation is totally wild as well. I know the Lawson family. They aren't bad people and neither are the boys, however, when the oldest boys began being recruited in high school things sort of changed, at least that's my observation. Keelon clearly parlayed the situation into a win for him, on several fronts, leveraging the kids. It happens but it simply went too far.
In my estimation, knowing a little about it, Tubby wanted to give it a chance and did but when the power play escalated, Tubby thought more bad than good was on the horizon so he took a bit more control of the situation and played hardball for the betterment of the team and program. I commend him for that, and if it meant losing 2 key players and possibly more aligned with the Lawsons, so be it.
I kind of see addition by subtraction here without the drama.
Let the thing play out before hurling grenades. At least that's my line of thinking.

Quote:I'm really not following this continued and escalating distain for Tubby.

It started with me when Cal clobbered them. We had so much more talent than them, were much more athletic, better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything.

I was in shock that a program like Kentucky; with every advantage known to man, AND the cheatingest program in NCAA history, could put such a bad team on the floor. Then he sucked at Minnesota and then was forced to work at Texas Tech.

This isn't something new that I came up with last year. I would have felt the same way if we would have hired Bruce Weber, Jeff Capel or Travis Ford.

Maybe you should reconsider after he stomped Pastner's best team at Memphis. Memphis had every advantage known to man. But Minnesota was better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything. They even won with lesser ranked players! The nerve! Not to mention a Memphis kid (a four star recruit, btw) dropped 41 points on us...

Then he won Minnesotas only tournament game in the last twenty years (streak still alive). Then brought an awful Texas Tech team to the tournament after a nine year drought. Beat a number 3 ranked team that year too. Did Pastner ever do that?

Pastner was rightly pushed out for failure to meet minimum performance standards. Tubby, IMO, should not be exempt from the standards, either. Tubby has one NCAA Tourney win in ten seasons (soon to be 11) - an unacceptable result at Memphis. Tubby needs better production at Memphis and it does not look good at the moment that he can do it.

I respectfully disagree. I believe Tubby will overachieve this year relative to his roster and will start to pull in higher talent when they see that happen due to the combination of thet production and the advantages that Memphis does have that others have mentioned. We became a problem brand and I am not surprised that recruits might take a wait and see attitude. If Tubby shows he can overachieve relative to the program as he has at other stops, he will start to get the level of talent you and I would hope to see here.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-22-2017 02:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 10:17 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 11:26 PM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 08:43 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 12:59 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  Kissing his ass? CJP didn't kiss his ass, he just made him feel like he was a part of the team. What's funny is he gets bashed here yet when he was on the radio and had every chance to bash Tubby, he didn't. You hire assistants for 2 reasons, 1. to coach and 2. to recruit. A lot of coaches only do one well . . . Lawson recruits better than ANYONE on the staff right now . . . regardless if they are his sons or not, he would have brought in more talent than anyone currently on the staff and has more connections with Memphis than anyone on the stuff. Keelon is being made out to be this horrible guy, when he isn't even close to that.

Total myth.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

Whats the total myth? and please come up with examples as to why Lawson (the father) was such a bad guy at Memphis. I've heard ZERO stories of how the Father was a bad guy, the exact opposite and he showed it in a lot of his interviews after leaving Memphis. It's funny how people say things about him getting hired bc of his sons yet Tubby hires his own son and pushes out someone who can do a better job, i'm sorry but that's just true. I would say this about ANY coach who pushed someone out who can bring high level recruits to the team.

Saul is a much better coach than Keelon and anybody actually employed in college basketball will tell you that. I have worked with several college basketball programs around the country so this is where my perspective comes from.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

And yet Saul hasn't been able to get a decent job without Tubby in 12 years in the business. Before Memphis, he has had one job that involved more important chores than pointing a video camera or being in charge of ballhandling drills. Thank God Tubby chose Memphis for Saul's coming out party.

He wants to work with his dad.

Sent from my LG-H811 using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-22-2017 02:49 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 02:35 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 02:26 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 12:56 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 10:51 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  Both sides are hurling bolts and raining ****. That's because once again, we find ourselves in the middle of a BB program poop storm, with almost no way out and the only umbrella we have is 'hope'. Hope ain't sturdy...it's the last resort when you are waiting and seeing. lol

#bitingthrough

Tubby turned around two teams that were worse off than us. If he does the same here, we'll return to respectability and it'll be time for a new coach. I'd say now being a tourney team is the first goal. I think year 3.

It doesn't matter if you don't have hope or not. It won't change the fact that Tubby will be our coach for the foreseeable future. Doesn't matter if you don't want to wait and see either. He'll still be the coach. We don't have the money to buy him out, so whatever you choose, it won't effect the outcome. Tubby's the head coach.

So, I'll choose to be hopeful. Why be otherwise? Does incessant whining help? Does disparaging our current players and recruits help? The kids do read this board. And all they get to hear is that they suck, they don't have enough stars, the coaches suck, etc. This thread was supposed to be about a recruit, Conner Vanover. Once again it morphed into a Tubby sucks thread, to match the other twenty threads.

I just don't get it. The program was broke when Tubby got here. That's the reason the last guy got his walking papers. Tubby's cleaned house. I think he'll sign a good 2018 class. I can't tell you for sure that he'll fix it, but based on his past, I think he will. He isn't the long term solution and never was. He was brought in to rebuild the program and retire. Hopefully, it will be in such a good place that we can actually hire a top coach that can get us to the next level.

At worst, we hire an up and comer with a lot of energy and he runs circles around Tubby as a recruiter. At best he makes it work with Keelon, we have a happy Dedric and KJ on the team and maybe Markel sticks around. Maybe the other guy doesn't completely whiff on the 2016 class and we have a player or two that could have helped both years.

Quote:The program was broke when Tubby got here.

3 years of Dedric, KJ, and Marshall, 2 years of Markel, 1 year of Woodson to go along with an ok point guard and possibly being able to keep Charlie Moore is far from broke.

I read that Tubby never contacted Nick Marshall, but I don't know if it is true. I read that Tubby barely contacted Woodson, but don't know if it is true. Markel is on record saying that Tubby barely tried to convince him to stay and the KJ video was made on Clergeot's phone.

With the right hire, the program could have been in the NIT last year, possibly a tournament team this year and at the very least, would have had momentum moving forward.

Instead, it is a complete disaster on every level.

Sorry, but the disaster was Pastner. He broke it. Need me to repost the article on attendance? 16,000 to 6,000. Do I need to remind you that the Lawsons were on his last team here? That we had to hire his dad to sign them? One that finished 7th in the freakin' American?

Maybe we could have hired a different coach. But we didn't. So, Tubby's the man.

I like that he cleaned house. That group didn't produce wins. I'm ready for a fresh start with some hard working, hungry players...

So we hired a coach for on average of 3mil a year to stop the bleeding and instead he ripped the wound wide open and now we have a gusher.

I like the players we have now. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

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(08-24-2017 05:31 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 04:50 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:56 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 02:53 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 01:45 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I agree that Tubby should be given until year three to make the NCAA Tourney before axing him. However, in the meantime some fans wish to comment on a messageboard dedicated to Tiger athletics about Tubby's progress (or lack thereof) in obtaining the objective.

Disagree
Some folks wish to bash...comment is one thing but when every b'ball thread turns into a bash-fest, it's more than just "commenting" IMO

There was a much higher volume of negative Pastner threads that apparently weren't a big deal to many of those defending Tubby.

Disagree
Not until year 6 did we see the volume we are already seeing with Tubby after year 1

He started it. Tubby started it at the end of year 1. Betcha he was trying his best not to sign a contract and get the heck outta Dodge. lol

Pastner waited many years to say 'How many were vacated?'

The end.

Not the end. In any relationship, whether it be with a fan base or just one person....ya nevah evah say..'you can't expect better....your expectations are too high.' lol

huh?

(08-24-2017 06:59 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 08:20 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:35 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 11:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 10:25 PM)450bench Wrote:  I'm really not following this continued and escalating distain for Tubby. Now it's sort of a character assassination of the man. It's truly bizarre to me. Especially since the guy has only coached the team for 1 year.
The criticism of how Tubby handled the Lawson situation is totally wild as well. I know the Lawson family. They aren't bad people and neither are the boys, however, when the oldest boys began being recruited in high school things sort of changed, at least that's my observation. Keelon clearly parlayed the situation into a win for him, on several fronts, leveraging the kids. It happens but it simply went too far.
In my estimation, knowing a little about it, Tubby wanted to give it a chance and did but when the power play escalated, Tubby thought more bad than good was on the horizon so he took a bit more control of the situation and played hardball for the betterment of the team and program. I commend him for that, and if it meant losing 2 key players and possibly more aligned with the Lawsons, so be it.
I kind of see addition by subtraction here without the drama.
Let the thing play out before hurling grenades. At least that's my line of thinking.

Quote:I'm really not following this continued and escalating distain for Tubby.

It started with me when Cal clobbered them. We had so much more talent than them, were much more athletic, better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything.

I was in shock that a program like Kentucky; with every advantage known to man, AND the cheatingest program in NCAA history, could put such a bad team on the floor. Then he sucked at Minnesota and then was forced to work at Texas Tech.

This isn't something new that I came up with last year. I would have felt the same way if we would have hired Bruce Weber, Jeff Capel or Travis Ford.

Maybe you should reconsider after he stomped Pastner's best team at Memphis. Memphis had every advantage known to man. But Minnesota was better coached, better conditioned, played better defense, everything. They even won with lesser ranked players! The nerve! Not to mention a Memphis kid (a four star recruit, btw) dropped 41 points on us...

Then he won Minnesotas only tournament game in the last twenty years (streak still alive). Then brought an awful Texas Tech team to the tournament after a nine year drought. Beat a number 3 ranked team that year too. Did Pastner ever do that?

Pastner was rightly pushed out for failure to meet minimum performance standards. Tubby, IMO, should not be exempt from the standards, either. Tubby has one NCAA Tourney win in ten seasons (soon to be 11) - an unacceptable result at Memphis. Tubby needs better production at Memphis and it does not look good at the moment that he can do it.

I respectfully disagree. I believe Tubby will overachieve this year relative to his roster and will start to pull in higher talent when they see that happen due to the combination of thet production and the advantages that Memphis does have that others have mentioned. We became a problem brand and I am not surprised that recruits might take a wait and see attitude. If Tubby shows he can overachieve relative to the program as he has at other stops, he will start to get the level of talent you and I would hope to see here.

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I hope you are correct, but realistically I do not see the fulfillment of factors leading to success.

What does that have to do with Connor Vanover?

(08-23-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  I can really only think of one person who thinks it wasn't time or past time for Past ner to move on.

The way I'm taking the Pastner/Tubb comparison is stat for stat.

It's part of the point being made that Pastner was cut no slack...but Tubbs is getting cut a lot.

It's just one way of looking at this abrupt lowering of our expectations...it's not a diving board into 'Bring Pastner back' or 'Pastner should've stayed'. lol

Pastner got an honest 3 years of slack.

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