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+---- Thread: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" (/thread-836635.html)
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - Kittonhead - 12-27-2017 10:21 AM
(12-26-2017 06:13 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote: Adding a school to the Valley has less to do with what they spend and more to do with location and success. Murray will likely be added, the question is, what will that do to the MVFC. The MVC football playing schools agreed to add UND assisting the Summit. The Summit football schools will agree to add Murray. I think your second addition, if they get who they want, Belmont will be at the top of the list.
One last item on budgets. If you look over those basketball budgets, you have to look at the cost of attendance. In the Summit, DU and ORU are by FAR the most expensive schools. In addition, if you look at the MVC and Horizon basketball budgets, that is a lot of wasted money to put a terrible product on the floor.
The 2017-18 figures, when released will be interesting. I know SDSU increased the basketball budget pretty substantially and the overall athletic budget increases by just over $4 million from 2015-16 to 2017-18.
Definitely when you are comparing the overall budget of a private school where the tuition is 40k-50k a year to a public university of 10k-15k tuition when you are talking 250-300 athletes on scholarship. Private universities have larger budgets to reflect the difference in tuition.
I also think when you are talking the difference between a 2.5 million dollar men's basketball budget and a 2.0 million dollar men's basketball budget you are talking about the difference between a small budget and a very small basketball budget. I doubt at that point it means as much as winning tradition, location, academic profile ect.
Its when you get to 3 million you are starting to talk about a decent D1 men's basketball budget that can afford charter flights for the team ect. A program that is capable of comfortably operating outside of a bus league.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - MissouriStateBears - 12-27-2017 10:58 AM
(12-26-2017 11:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:(12-26-2017 08:20 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: Belmont is a horrible choice. They have had one coach, no knowing if they will have any long term success. Plus they have a horrible athletic department outside of basketball.
The only sport that matters for the MVC is Men's Basketball. And Belmont would be a strong add with a more resources devoted to the sport than all one MVC school (Bradley). They are at the top of the OVC table in WBB, and close in Men's as we head into league play. Finished 4th in Soccer. Middle of the pack in most.
Your definition of horrible seems somewhat unfounded, even prejudiced.
You know nothing of the MVC and Belmont won't be added.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - Nerdlinger - 12-27-2017 11:16 AM
(12-27-2017 02:41 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Belmont rejected MVC in 2013 & 2017. Like someone said, they’re content NMSU’ing the Ohio Valley - but as the geographical epicenter.
Really have no idea why the MVC isn’t knocking down NKU’s doors to package with Murray. NKU is never even mentioned.
I've not heard this verb before.
What does it mean here?I really don't see at all why the MVC would go after NMSU at this point.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - NoDak - 12-27-2017 12:49 PM
Belmond to the Southern when Murray St goes to the MVC.
The OVC adds Lipscomb, Southern Indiana, and W Illinois
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - Cyniclone - 12-27-2017 03:28 PM
(12-27-2017 12:49 PM)NoDak Wrote: Belmond to the Southern when Murray St goes to the MVC.
The OVC adds Lipscomb, Southern Indiana, and W Illinois
Why would Belmont want the SoCon at this point?
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - jacksfan29 - 12-27-2017 04:24 PM
(12-27-2017 10:58 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:(12-26-2017 11:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:(12-26-2017 08:20 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: Belmont is a horrible choice. They have had one coach, no knowing if they will have any long term success. Plus they have a horrible athletic department outside of basketball.
The only sport that matters for the MVC is Men's Basketball. And Belmont would be a strong add with a more resources devoted to the sport than all one MVC school (Bradley). They are at the top of the OVC table in WBB, and close in Men's as we head into league play. Finished 4th in Soccer. Middle of the pack in most.
Your definition of horrible seems somewhat unfounded, even prejudiced.
You know nothing of the MVC and Belmont won't be added.
By all accounts Belmont has been approached in the past by the MVC. "Won't" is a pretty strong word. As for their athletic department, is Murray State's any better? outside of Men's BB and shooting, what exactly is Murray good at?
I think Murray will get added. I think the UND addition to the Summit foretells the addition of an MVC addition who plays FB. If the league goes to 12 (not guaranteed), you have to look at Belmont, UWM, who else is there? The MVC does not have a lot of choices that fit their geographic footprint, or academic want.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - DavidSt - 12-27-2017 04:35 PM
Well, MVC looking to expand.
A-SUN seems to be looking at inviting another football school. Some rumors seem to be hinting another D2 school. (West Georgia?)
WAC is looking to invite another school.
Merrimack is begging NEC for an invite.
Robert Morris is shopping around for a new conference.
Tarleton State wants D1.
With all this going around? You do wonder what is going to happen next? Not sure if Robert Morris fits OVC. Robert Morris and Monmouth to the Big South for all sports?
Murray State to MVC?
Southern Indiana and North Alabama to the OVC? Bellarmine to OVC as well?
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - MissouriStateBears - 12-27-2017 05:14 PM
(12-27-2017 04:24 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:(12-27-2017 10:58 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:(12-26-2017 11:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:(12-26-2017 08:20 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: Belmont is a horrible choice. They have had one coach, no knowing if they will have any long term success. Plus they have a horrible athletic department outside of basketball.
The only sport that matters for the MVC is Men's Basketball. And Belmont would be a strong add with a more resources devoted to the sport than all one MVC school (Bradley). They are at the top of the OVC table in WBB, and close in Men's as we head into league play. Finished 4th in Soccer. Middle of the pack in most.
Your definition of horrible seems somewhat unfounded, even prejudiced.
You know nothing of the MVC and Belmont won't be added.
By all accounts Belmont has been approached in the past by the MVC. "Won't" is a pretty strong word. As for their athletic department, is Murray State's any better? outside of Men's BB and shooting, what exactly is Murray good at?
I think Murray will get added. I think the UND addition to the Summit foretells the addition of an MVC addition who plays FB. If the league goes to 12 (not guaranteed), you have to look at Belmont, UWM, who else is there? The MVC does not have a lot of choices that fit their geographic footprint, or academic want.
Murray State has had years of success with multiple coaches in basketball. Belmont has not. #12 is going to be either Milwaukee or UIC.
The MVC was too stupid not to get to SDSU and NDSU in the fold. Best two additions by far.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - chargeradio - 12-27-2017 08:30 PM
(12-27-2017 02:41 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Belmont rejected MVC in 2013 & 2017. Like someone said, they’re content NMSU’ing the Ohio Valley - but as the geographical epicenter.NKU is probably seen as too new to Division I, and admittedly the Cincinnati area doesn’t have as strong of a tie to Southwest Indiana and Illinois (the entire state), much less Missouri or Iowa.
Really have no idea why the MVC isn’t knocking down NKU’s doors to package with Murray. NKU is never even mentioned.
That said, if the MVC is pushing to 12, adding NKU and Murray State would inflict the maximum amount of damage on all of the other mid-majors. Cincinnati (AAC), Xavier (Big East), and Dayton (A-10), will have seen a program who is a threat to make the tournament every year rise up right in their own backyards. Morehead State (OVC) will be orphaned in their own conference, or at best be a poor fit in the Horizon League.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - NoDak - 12-28-2017 02:04 AM
(12-27-2017 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(12-27-2017 12:49 PM)NoDak Wrote: Belmond to the Southern when Murray St goes to the MVC.
The OVC adds Lipscomb, Southern Indiana, and W Illinois
Why would Belmont want the SoCon at this point?
The Southern provides more academic legitimacy and the OVC will become a psuedo D II conference. Davidson got an A10 bid from within the Southern and Belmont admires that path.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - solohawks - 12-28-2017 06:56 AM
(12-28-2017 02:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:While Belmont fits the Southerns profile both as a private school and geographically, i just don't see them making the switch from a conference where they are the epicenter of travel. However if the Socon wanted an 11th team, Belmont is a very logical choice(12-27-2017 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(12-27-2017 12:49 PM)NoDak Wrote: Belmond to the Southern when Murray St goes to the MVC.
The OVC adds Lipscomb, Southern Indiana, and W Illinois
Why would Belmont want the SoCon at this point?
The Southern provides more academic legitimacy and the OVC will become a psuedo D II conference. Davidson got an A10 bid from within the Southern and Belmont admires that path.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - Cyniclone - 12-29-2017 03:42 PM
(12-28-2017 02:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:(12-27-2017 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(12-27-2017 12:49 PM)NoDak Wrote: Belmond to the Southern when Murray St goes to the MVC.
The OVC adds Lipscomb, Southern Indiana, and W Illinois
Why would Belmont want the SoCon at this point?
The Southern provides more academic legitimacy and the OVC will become a psuedo D II conference. Davidson got an A10 bid from within the Southern and Belmont admires that path.
I'll concede the former point but Davidson got an A10 bid from a stronger Southern. Today's SoCon is missing Davidson, Charleston, Appalachian State and Georgia Southern. Plus Chattanooga is a theoretical flight risk. Is it worth exit/entry fees to join a marginally better conference? If Belmont has A10 hopes — and I certainly think they're worth kicking the tires on if/when the A10 needs/wants another school — they can make the argument from where they are now through continued men's basketball excellence and academics, no matter under whose conference's shingle they labor.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - Mav - 12-29-2017 03:55 PM
(12-26-2017 06:13 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote: Omaha fell off the list because their athletic department is in a financial mess and have not proven they can sustain a solid program at the D1 level.Was.
http://www.omaha.com/eedition/sunrise/articles/mavs-budget-improving-fast/article_e1d08ed7-d642-5a5e-83e5-190dbf90cc76.html
As for the other programs, soccer made the NCAAs and basketball was hurt by the star player transferring over to Nevada because he was mad about the coach not changing his position when he asked. Not kidding. Baseball got royally screwed by the athletic department, so I will say that there has been an impact.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - NoDak - 12-29-2017 05:40 PM
(12-28-2017 06:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:(12-28-2017 02:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:While Belmont fits the Southerns profile both as a private school and geographically, i just don't see them making the switch from a conference where they are the epicenter of travel. However if the Socon wanted an 11th team, Belmont is a very logical choice(12-27-2017 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(12-27-2017 12:49 PM)NoDak Wrote: Belmond to the Southern when Murray St goes to the MVC.
The OVC adds Lipscomb, Southern Indiana, and W Illinois
Why would Belmont want the SoCon at this point?
The Southern provides more academic legitimacy and the OVC will become a psuedo D II conference. Davidson got an A10 bid from within the Southern and Belmont admires that path.
The Carolinas are a relatively untapped enrolment market for Belmont with better schools. A move to the Southern is a nobrainer.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - MissouriStateBears - 12-29-2017 06:42 PM
Belmont to the SoCon is another Nodak fantasy to form the Big North fantasy league.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - Stugray2 - 12-29-2017 06:51 PM
(12-29-2017 03:55 PM)Mav Wrote:(12-26-2017 06:13 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote: Omaha fell off the list because their athletic department is in a financial mess and have not proven they can sustain a solid program at the D1 level.Was.
http://www.omaha.com/eedition/sunrise/articles/mavs-budget-improving-fast/article_e1d08ed7-d642-5a5e-83e5-190dbf90cc76.html
As for the other programs, soccer made the NCAAs and basketball was hurt by the star player transferring over to Nevada because he was mad about the coach not changing his position when he asked. Not kidding. Baseball got royally screwed by the athletic department, so I will say that there has been an impact.
Omaha is still off the list. They need two or three years of better than 100 RPI in basketball to get back on the list, and better attendance numbers. Perhaps it was a good thing the MVC kicked them in the teeth. They seem to have responded by starting to get their house in better order. Perhaps a decade from now with some on court success to back up their bid they might get another opportunity.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - NoDak - 12-29-2017 07:27 PM
(12-29-2017 06:42 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: Belmont to the SoCon is another Nodak fantasy to form the Big North fantasy league.
The Belmont admin must be living in a fantasy world too, as they switched men's soccer from the Horizon to the SoCon.
The OVC region already knows Belmont. Switching to an Eastern seaboard conference would only increases enrollment.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - IWokeUpLikeThis - 12-29-2017 07:45 PM
Hockey-first schools historically don’t do well in hoops (Denver, UNO, UND, WMU, BG, Mia, BU). Miami was very good in hoops, but as soon as they exploded in hockey, hoops regressed to mediocrity. This switch gradually occurred in the 2000s.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - johnbragg - 12-29-2017 07:51 PM
(12-29-2017 05:40 PM)NoDak Wrote: The Carolinas are a relatively untapped enrolment market for Belmont with better schools. A move to the Southern is a nobrainer.
(12-29-2017 06:42 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: Belmont to the SoCon is another Nodak fantasy to form the Big North fantasy league.
Hmm. It's possible, even probable, that NoDak wants Belmont to the SoCon because it opens an OVC spot for Western Illinois, who he wants to "get rid of" from the Summit. But it's a plausible idea.
Let's look at where Belmont's freshmen come from. http://www.belmont.edu/admissions/glance/freshmanprofile/index.html
TN 461
TX 131
IL 131
GA 73
CA 64
OH 58
IN 50
KY 46
NC 45
Possible Conferences
OVC: TN x 5, KY x 3, IL x 2, AL, MO
MVC: IL x 4, IN x 3, IA x 2, MO
SoCon: TN x 2, SC x 3, NC x2, GA, AL, VA
If it were all about enrollment and big cities, they'd make a play for the Horizon, with schools in (or next to) Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinatti and Dayton.
Missouri Valley gets them more exposure in Indiana, Chicago and downstate Illinois.
I don't know.
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand" - NoDak - 12-29-2017 07:54 PM
(12-29-2017 07:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Hockey-first schools historically don’t do well in hoops (Denver, UNO, UND, WMU, BG, Mia, BU). Miami was very good in hoops, but as soon as they exploded in hockey, hoops regressed to mediocrity. This switch gradually occurred in the 2000s.Seems like Badger hockey needs to go in the crapper for Wisco mbb to be good.