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RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - RutgersGuy - 12-06-2017 07:12 PM
(12-06-2017 05:52 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 05:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:(12-06-2017 05:32 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote: We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their
Nobody knows that the numbers actually are there, though, rather than being an result of the "whatever's on ESPN" effect. Assuming viewership is entirely portable going from ESPN2 to NBCSN is a MASSIVE risk, and not one that I'd expect a network to wager nine figures a year on.
Yes...The numbers are there, that's one of the good things about factual raw data, sorry
You don't think the Big East would have better ratings on ESPN?
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - RutgersGuy - 12-06-2017 07:13 PM
(12-06-2017 07:03 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
Well at least thats what they say on the AAC board. Hows that ESPN "exposure"working out for you guys? They have on air talent literally calling for teams to leave the AAC.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Bogg - 12-06-2017 07:36 PM
(12-06-2017 07:03 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
The American probably gets a bump, but it'll still most likely be in the neighborhood of where the money is more or less the same - BE+indy for UConn can probably net them at least $6 million a year, so you're still just talking about which sports situation is better. Yea, stick around to see if something crazy happens where you can get $13-15 million per, since it's really only a season or so out, but it's unlikely the money's so good UConn can't afford to walk away.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Tigersmoke4 - 12-06-2017 08:03 PM
(12-06-2017 07:12 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 05:52 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 05:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:(12-06-2017 05:32 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote: We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their
Nobody knows that the numbers actually are there, though, rather than being an result of the "whatever's on ESPN" effect. Assuming viewership is entirely portable going from ESPN2 to NBCSN is a MASSIVE risk, and not one that I'd expect a network to wager nine figures a year on.
Yes...The numbers are there, that's one of the good things about factual raw data, sorry
You don't think the Big East would have better ratings on ESPN?
Irrelevant. You I mean they chose their path and we chose ours. Neither is right or wrong, they're just different
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Tigersmoke4 - 12-06-2017 08:07 PM
(12-06-2017 07:13 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:03 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
Well at least thats what they say on the AAC board. Hows that ESPN "exposure"working out for you guys? They have on air talent literally calling for teams to leave the AAC.
The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - RutgersGuy - 12-06-2017 08:30 PM
(12-06-2017 08:07 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:13 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:03 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
Well at least thats what they say on the AAC board. Hows that ESPN "exposure"working out for you guys? They have on air talent literally calling for teams to leave the AAC.
The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
Wait, so it's irrelevant if the Big East would get better ratings on ESPN but the AAC will get a great deal from other players because of their ratings?
Okay lady
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Bogg - 12-06-2017 08:33 PM
(12-06-2017 08:07 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote: The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
I'd like to believe that's true, but the truth is you're worth what you have the ability to negotiate, and this is a terrible time to be negotiating a new deal. ESPN negotiated some massive P5 media contracts right before their traditional revenue model started unraveling, and now they're in cost-cutting mode. The AAC should get a bump, but not into eight figures per team per year.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Tigersmoke4 - 12-06-2017 08:51 PM
(12-06-2017 08:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:07 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:13 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:03 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
Well at least thats what they say on the AAC board. Hows that ESPN "exposure"working out for you guys? They have on air talent literally calling for teams to leave the AAC.
The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
Wait, so it's irrelevant if the Big East would get better ratings on ESPN but the AAC will get a great deal from other players because of their ratings?
Okay lady
No it's irrelevant because they aren't with ESPN.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Bogg - 12-06-2017 09:11 PM
(12-06-2017 08:51 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote: No it's irrelevant because they aren't with ESPN.
Riiiiiiiight.......
Anyway, at a certain point UConn's going to have to acknowledge that the money hose has been turned off, ESPN's discouraging any further expansion, and decide if they want to make the AAC their long-term home. That's a much different question than the "where should we ride out the next few years until a spot opens up" question they thought they were faced with four to five years ago.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - johnbragg - 12-06-2017 09:12 PM
(12-06-2017 08:51 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:07 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:13 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:03 PM)goodknightfl Wrote: UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
Well at least thats what they say on the AAC board. Hows that ESPN "exposure"working out for you guys? They have on air talent literally calling for teams to leave the AAC.
The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
Wait, so it's irrelevant if the Big East would get better ratings on ESPN but the AAC will get a great deal from other players because of their ratings?
Okay lady
No it's irrelevant because they aren't with ESPN.
It is relevant, because if you're taking your product to market, it's important to have an idea of how much of your ratings numbers are driven by you, and how much is driven by being on ESPN. Looking at vaguely similar PAC and Big 12 games on ESPN and FS1, you get about 2.5-3 the audience on ESPN for the same game.
EVeryone in the negotiation understands this--the Memphis-UCF CCG would get about the same rating on NBC as ABC. But the Memphis-UCF game in September on ESPN2 is going to get more audience on ESPN2 than it would on NBCSN or FS1. Similarly, what sort of rating with ESPN2 get the same rating with a FIU-Middle Tennessee CCG instead of a Memphis-UCF CCG.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Tigersmoke4 - 12-06-2017 09:59 PM
(12-06-2017 09:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:It's called analytics and neither you nor I know the answer to this, but going by laymans terms, I can go to sports media.com and guess at it just like NBE fans can assume that their ratings (the only thing that matters to tv execs care about) will increase if they just keep winning. That's just as big of a guess as assuming that the AAC proven ratings track is caused by ESPN only, which by the way is the gamble we took that's starting to paying off for us. I do know that the AAC has never disappointed when given good windows and that ESPN has actually put us on ABC more than they had to. As I stated earlier both the AAC and the NBE simple chose different paths to achieve the same goal, so let's just watch it all play out. Heck we may both succeed or both fail, who knows yet.(12-06-2017 08:51 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:30 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:07 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:(12-06-2017 07:13 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: Well at least thats what they say on the AAC board. Hows that ESPN "exposure"working out for you guys? They have on air talent literally calling for teams to leave the AAC.
The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
Wait, so it's irrelevant if the Big East would get better ratings on ESPN but the AAC will get a great deal from other players because of their ratings?
Okay lady
No it's irrelevant because they aren't with ESPN.
It is relevant, because if you're taking your product to market, it's important to have an idea of how much of your ratings numbers are driven by you, and how much is driven by being on ESPN. Looking at vaguely similar PAC and Big 12 games on ESPN and FS1, you get about 2.5-3 the audience on ESPN for the same game.
EVeryone in the negotiation understands this--the Memphis-UCF CCG would get about the same rating on NBC as ABC. But the Memphis-UCF game in September on ESPN2 is going to get more audience on ESPN2 than it would on NBCSN or FS1. Similarly, what sort of rating with ESPN2 get the same rating with a FIU-Middle Tennessee CCG instead of a Memphis-UCF CCG.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - GoldenWarrior11 - 12-06-2017 11:12 PM
UConn was the only non-private school in the original Big East. I don't think the Private/Catholic association with the current Big East would be a big deal for UConn (and I certainly don't think it would be a big deal for the Big East).
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - quo vadis - 12-07-2017 12:41 AM
(12-06-2017 06:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(12-06-2017 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote: UConn football is more valuable than Wichita State basketball. UConn is the only flagship in the AAC, and is in the NYC area market.
No way would the AAC try to kick UConn football out. To say they would is just puffed up pride and ego talking.
This is college sports. Don't discount pride and ego.
Fair point, but in this case, i do think the AAC would realize dumping UConn football if their basketball left would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - PirateTreasureNC - 12-07-2017 12:52 AM
UConn's bball might make more sense in the BE geographically but the fact that the AAC is a multi-bid league and the SOS in conference won't necessarily mean a just over .500 UConn team couldn't squeeze out a bid. Also, I seriously doubt that the AAC having UConn as a full member would allow them to dip to a partial member along football/basketball lines.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - stever20 - 12-07-2017 01:01 AM
(12-07-2017 12:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(12-06-2017 06:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(12-06-2017 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote: UConn football is more valuable than Wichita State basketball. UConn is the only flagship in the AAC, and is in the NYC area market.
No way would the AAC try to kick UConn football out. To say they would is just puffed up pride and ego talking.
This is college sports. Don't discount pride and ego.
Fair point, but in this case, i do think the AAC would realize dumping UConn football if their basketball left would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.
UConn's football is maybe the worst in the AAC right now. If their basketball is gone, there is absolutely NO reason to keep them. NONE.
And you better believe the AAC is making this known to them. They aren't going to help UConn screw them. They're going to make it harder than hell. UConn would have to go independent in football to have a chance- and face the facts that it could be very possible to screw with UConn they take Indy UMass for all sports and make it harder for them to go indy.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - CougarRed - 12-07-2017 01:03 AM
(12-06-2017 04:42 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote: I said TV money (which is true). Yes, there are other conference distributions for football as you've noted, but there are also the Big East's own NCAA Tournament distributions that are very high and only split among 10 schools. Regardless, the Big East is earning that all of that revenue without the expense of FBS football. The gap on the profit/loss and ROI is even wider.
Big East does not share tournament money equally. More eat what you kill. See:
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20160409/big-east-basketball-not-among-top-money-makers
UConn would need to get a lot stronger before moving if it expected an average share of Big East hoops tourney revenue from the get go.
And if UConn got a lot stronger in the American, then that's less reason to leave the American.
Regardless, UConn got $10M from the American last year, in part due to exit fees. Big East schools averaged school less than $7M from that conference last year. The next American TV deal will be the tale of the tape. Your whole premise is flawed.
This is not rocket science. UConn lost it's John Wooden. They are now dealing with their (slightly better) version of Larry Farmer - a former player who had early success and now is struggling.
Their basketball issues are 100% coaching.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - ArQ - 12-07-2017 01:45 AM
(12-06-2017 03:52 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:(12-06-2017 03:44 PM)CougarRed Wrote: If UConn was in the Big East this year, they would be 10th place. Ahead of only DePaul.
Moving to the Big East is not necessary to right the ship in men's hoops. Hiring a better coach is.
For example, see Geno winning several national titles in the American, which is not a good women's league.
Not necessarily. The Big East is viewed as a major conference, the AAC isn't. The Big East will usually have 5 bids to the tourney, the AAC 2 to 3.
Recruiting is in a major conference is better than trying to recruit in a mid-major conference.
AAC is more likely to get 4 bids. But AAC has 12 members while Big East has only ten. So that is 50% for Big East and 33% for AAC.
IMO UConn is likely to be in top 33% of AAC but very unlikely in top 50% of Big East in the current condition.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Attackcoog - 12-07-2017 02:28 AM
(12-06-2017 08:33 PM)Bogg Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:07 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote: The only thing that matters is the ratings. The on air talking heads don't write the checks. No time to argue with you lady, just go to sportsmedia watch.com
I'd like to believe that's true, but the truth is you're worth what you have the ability to negotiate, and this is a terrible time to be negotiating a new deal. ESPN negotiated some massive P5 media contracts right before their traditional revenue model started unraveling, and now they're in cost-cutting mode. The AAC should get a bump, but not into eight figures per team per year.
Well, if thats the case I wouldnt look for the UConn indy contract--which would represent some of the least attractive AAC inventory--to bring much of anything in the open market. Keep in mind---your probably only talking about 5 home games as an Indy.
That said, while UConn football probably wont see much at all from media value--I see no reason that would be that big a deal. Two payday games, offset with a cheap FCS home game should easily offset most of the lost media income--especially considering its on top of the 4 million BE media deal. Hell, maybe the Huskies couild get by with just one pay day game--making it possible to do a full 6 game home schedule.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Attackcoog - 12-07-2017 02:34 AM
(12-06-2017 09:11 PM)Bogg Wrote:(12-06-2017 08:51 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote: No it's irrelevant because they aren't with ESPN.
Riiiiiiiight.......
Anyway, at a certain point UConn's going to have to acknowledge that the money hose has been turned off, ESPN's discouraging any further expansion, and decide if they want to make the AAC their long-term home. That's a much different question than the "where should we ride out the next few years until a spot opens up" question they thought they were faced with four to five years ago.
Thats really a conference wide question. IF all the teams are going to be here for a while and no real change is coming--and a decent paycheck is there to be had--then you could see moves made to make basketball better and maybe improve travel--or maybe to bring in BYU or Army. If the next TV deal is a bust--then another question becomes relevant--If there is no TV money in it---is there really any reason for a large footprint G5 league? Could be lots and lots of change depending on the answer to that question.
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East - Attackcoog - 12-07-2017 02:36 AM
(12-07-2017 01:03 AM)CougarRed Wrote:(12-06-2017 04:42 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote: I said TV money (which is true). Yes, there are other conference distributions for football as you've noted, but there are also the Big East's own NCAA Tournament distributions that are very high and only split among 10 schools. Regardless, the Big East is earning that all of that revenue without the expense of FBS football. The gap on the profit/loss and ROI is even wider.
Big East does not share tournament money equally. More eat what you kill. See:
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20160409/big-east-basketball-not-among-top-money-makers
UConn would need to get a lot stronger before moving if it expected an average share of Big East hoops tourney revenue from the get go.
And if UConn got a lot stronger in the American, then that's less reason to leave the American.
Regardless, UConn got $10M from the American last year, in part due to exit fees. Big East schools averaged school less than $7M from that conference last year. The next American TV deal will be the tale of the tape. Your whole premise is flawed.
This is not rocket science. UConn lost it's John Wooden. They are now dealing with their (slightly better) version of Larry Farmer - a former player who had early success and now is struggling.
Their basketball issues are 100% coaching.
They have also had some buzzard luck on the injury front as well.