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Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - SuperFlyBCat - 01-31-2017 12:27 PM
Trump targets tech's H-1B visa hiring tool
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/01/30/trump-targets-techs-h1b-visa-hiring-tool/97240588/
So much winning people so much of it.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - Owl 69/70/75 - 01-31-2017 12:28 PM
This ain't winning.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - bullet - 01-31-2017 12:32 PM
H1-B Visas are used by many tech firms to pay less to their tech staff and to force American workers to work part time. That is no secret.
Its grossly abused by the tech sector. Its not as big an issue in most other fields.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - CardFan1 - 01-31-2017 12:33 PM
An American worker should Never , Ever have to train a foreign worker to replace His job like Disney did. If They are that damn smart, They can figure it out themselves.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - SuperFlyBCat - 01-31-2017 12:37 PM
(01-31-2017 12:33 PM)CardFan1 Wrote: An American worker should Never , Ever have to train a foreign worker to replace His job like Disney did. If They are that damn smart, They can figure it out themselves.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - ark30inf - 01-31-2017 01:50 PM
H1-B is basically a tool to keep the tech labor market flooded with excess capacity in order to keep labor prices low. A real screwjob for US workers.
However, if our labor costs do go up then we can't compete globally.
Catch-22
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RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - Bull_Is_Back - 01-31-2017 01:53 PM
(01-31-2017 12:33 PM)CardFan1 Wrote: An American worker should Never , Ever have to train a foreign worker to replace His job like Disney did. If They are that damn smart, They can figure it out themselves.
Easy to say when you're not facing the prospect of not feeding your kids.
It works like this...
Stay and train and you get 3 more months to look for a job plus a decent little severance package.
Don't train and you're gone now with whatever vacation/sick pay you are owed.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - john01992 - 01-31-2017 01:55 PM
(01-31-2017 01:53 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:(01-31-2017 12:33 PM)CardFan1 Wrote: An American worker should Never , Ever have to train a foreign worker to replace His job like Disney did. If They are that damn smart, They can figure it out themselves.
Easy to say when you're not facing the prospect of not feeding your kids.
It works like this...
Stay and train and you get 3 more months to look for a job plus a decent little severance package.
Don't train and you're gone now with whatever vacation/sick pay you are owed.
and the whole thing is super f***ed up.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - Bull_Is_Back - 01-31-2017 01:56 PM
(01-31-2017 01:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote: H1-B is basically a tool to keep the tech labor market flooded with excess capacity in order to keep labor prices low. A real screwjob for US workers.
However, if our labor costs do go up then we can't compete globally.
Catch-22
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The problem is that a lot of these service can now be done overseas... Many, not all but many, of these H1B's will be traded for an off shore party.
But you would be surprised, H1B's here are not working for that much below the average american worker (5-10% in most cases). What they do is put in more hours and take less time off.
If young people coming out were willing to pay their dues, work the 55 hour (salary) weeks for a couple of years to establish themselves this would go away.
My first four or five years in IT were a lot of 50-60 hour weeks. Now I am probably averaging about 45 or so.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - john01992 - 01-31-2017 02:00 PM
The way I see it if you have to bring someone into the country to fulfill a job. said person should be paid 3x the traditional wage for that field. that would force companies to look domestically to train someone to fulfill that job and it would certainly end the disney crap.
obviously you would need a carefully worded exemption for cases where a company is simply trying to attract a specific individual because they consider him incredibly talented and a valuable asset.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - SuperFlyBCat - 01-31-2017 02:06 PM
(01-31-2017 01:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote: H1-B is basically a tool to keep the tech labor market flooded with excess capacity in order to keep labor prices low. A real screwjob for US workers.
However, if our labor costs do go up then we can't compete globally.
Catch-22
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They shift that to Ireland. We should not be importing workers in the IT industry to take American jobs.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - olliebaba - 01-31-2017 05:28 PM
(01-31-2017 02:00 PM)john01992 Wrote: The way I see it if you have to bring someone into the country to fulfill a job. said person should be paid 3x the traditional wage for that field. that would force companies to look domestically to train someone to fulfill that job and it would certainly end the disney crap.
obviously you would need a carefully worded exemption for cases where a company is simply trying to attract a specific individual because they consider him incredibly talented and a valuable asset.
My gosh. I'm actually agreeing with Johnny.
America first.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - 2-Hood-Rich - 01-31-2017 05:38 PM
(01-31-2017 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: This ain't winning.says the resident elite globalist.
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RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - Owl 69/70/75 - 01-31-2017 05:50 PM
(01-31-2017 05:38 PM)2-Hood-Rich Wrote:(01-31-2017 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: This ain't winning.says the resident elite globalist.
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No, the resident realist.
H-1B's aren't taking visas away from Americans because there are no Americans who can do the work. Over half the advanced degrees in IT fields at US universities are going to foreigners because we don't have Americans who can get into the programs. The fix is to fix our education system until Americans can qualify for those slots, but we are nowhere near there today.
If they can't work in the US, the software companies have no alternative but to move their tech centers overseas. That means that the US loses jobs and economic growth and tax revenues. The alternative is that we train those brains and then lose them forever.
Disagree? Fine. Explain to me how things could work differently.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - 2-Hood-Rich - 01-31-2017 06:04 PM
(01-31-2017 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:You addressed it, fix education so that Americans can do more of these jobs. That said we give too many of these away. We need WAY more American tech people. That goes for trades too.(01-31-2017 05:38 PM)2-Hood-Rich Wrote:(01-31-2017 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: This ain't winning.says the resident elite globalist.
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No, the resident realist.
H-1B's aren't taking visas away from Americans because there are no Americans who can do the work. Over half the advanced degrees in IT fields at US universities are going to foreigners because we don't have Americans who can get into the programs. The fix is to fix our education system until Americans can qualify for those slots, but we are nowhere near there today.
If they can't work in the US, the software companies have no alternative but to move their tech centers overseas. That means that the US loses jobs and economic growth and tax revenues. The alternative is that we train those brains and then lose them forever.
Disagree? Fine. Explain to me how things could work differently.
My post to you was somewhat tongue in cheek but you've documented your self as pro TPP, pro NAFTA, weak (imo) on immigration, etc. Please let's not rehash those.
If we don't create more jobs here what the hell are lower middle and middle class Americans going to be doing? I'm at the point that I don't mind paying a little more for product / services as long as the quality is better. I'm not getting that with goods made in Mexico or tech support when I can't understand the guy on the other line. I used to work for Bechtel so I know exactly how that works (Indian engineering team for example).
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RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - SuperFlyBCat - 01-31-2017 06:09 PM
(01-31-2017 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(01-31-2017 05:38 PM)2-Hood-Rich Wrote:(01-31-2017 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: This ain't winning.says the resident elite globalist.
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No, the resident realist.
H-1B's aren't taking visas away from Americans because there are no Americans who can do the work. Over half the advanced degrees in IT fields at US universities are going to foreigners because we don't have Americans who can get into the programs. The fix is to fix our education system until Americans can qualify for those slots, but we are nowhere near there today.
If they can't work in the US, the software companies have no alternative but to move their tech centers overseas. That means that the US loses jobs and economic growth and tax revenues. The alternative is that we train those brains and then lose them forever.
Disagree? Fine. Explain to me how things could work differently.
you need a link for that. US universities do love foreign students, it is a cash cow.
Americans can do and are very qualified for those careers.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - Owl 69/70/75 - 01-31-2017 06:22 PM
(01-31-2017 06:09 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:(01-31-2017 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(01-31-2017 05:38 PM)2-Hood-Rich Wrote:(01-31-2017 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: This ain't winning.says the resident elite globalist.
No, the resident realist.
H-1B's aren't taking visas away from Americans because there are no Americans who can do the work. Over half the advanced degrees in IT fields at US universities are going to foreigners because we don't have Americans who can get into the programs. The fix is to fix our education system until Americans can qualify for those slots, but we are nowhere near there today.
If they can't work in the US, the software companies have no alternative but to move their tech centers overseas. That means that the US loses jobs and economic growth and tax revenues. The alternative is that we train those brains and then lose them forever.
Disagree? Fine. Explain to me how things could work differently.
you need a link for that. US universities do love foreign students, it is a cash cow.
Americans can do and are very qualified for those careers.
http://college.usatoday.com/2015/07/08/international-students-stem-degrees/
Not exactly the same, but pretty close.
Check Bill Gates's testimony before Congress in March of 2008 http://www.networkworld.com/article/2284389/infrastructure-management/bill-gates-written-transcript-from-today-s-congressional-testimony.html.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - 2-Hood-Rich - 01-31-2017 06:31 PM
ok so that's another question. why are we taking so many foreign students (aside from the obvious answer)? I drive by UNC Charlotte every day at 7:30 and work 1/2 mile from there. 75% of the students I see walking back and forth are of Asian decent.
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RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - bullet - 01-31-2017 06:35 PM
(01-31-2017 01:56 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:(01-31-2017 01:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote: H1-B is basically a tool to keep the tech labor market flooded with excess capacity in order to keep labor prices low. A real screwjob for US workers.
However, if our labor costs do go up then we can't compete globally.
Catch-22
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
The problem is that a lot of these service can now be done overseas... Many, not all but many, of these H1B's will be traded for an off shore party.
But you would be surprised, H1B's here are not working for that much below the average american worker (5-10% in most cases). What they do is put in more hours and take less time off.
If young people coming out were willing to pay their dues, work the 55 hour (salary) weeks for a couple of years to establish themselves this would go away.
My first four or five years in IT were a lot of 50-60 hour weeks. Now I am probably averaging about 45 or so.
In other words, the companies aren't paying enough to get the employees to do that.
RE: Want American citizens to get white collar tech jobs? - bullet - 01-31-2017 06:38 PM
(01-31-2017 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(01-31-2017 05:38 PM)2-Hood-Rich Wrote:(01-31-2017 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: This ain't winning.says the resident elite globalist.
Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app
No, the resident realist.
H-1B's aren't taking visas away from Americans because there are no Americans who can do the work. Over half the advanced degrees in IT fields at US universities are going to foreigners because we don't have Americans who can get into the programs. The fix is to fix our education system until Americans can qualify for those slots, but we are nowhere near there today.
If they can't work in the US, the software companies have no alternative but to move their tech centers overseas. That means that the US loses jobs and economic growth and tax revenues. The alternative is that we train those brains and then lose them forever.
Disagree? Fine. Explain to me how things could work differently.
Companies bring in H1-B while lots of talented American programmers are unemployed. What you are describing are their talking points, but not reality.
Now there are plenty of Americans who want to get into electrical engineering. The problem is very talented foreigners are coming into our universities and out-competing them. But those people usually get green cards. They don't tend to be the H1-B people.