As the article reported:

"Several sources confirmed a Post report last month that TCU is a strong candidate. Houston, Central Florida, Temple and/or Villanova, which is in the midst of evaluating a move up from FCS, are other lead candidates."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/f...z143P9DIUf

Talk here should be of the lead candidates and what each side can offer the other, not teams that may never have been candidates in the first place. \

With the Houston, Orlando and Philly markets added to the league along with DFW, it would be interesting to see what the revenue increase might be for the league. At worst they would effectively offset the departure of Rutgers or SU-although either would still be major blows to the league.

(11-01-2010 12:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:05 PM)knightastic Wrote:  everyone shouldn't assume Miami will eventually be 'back'.

Shouldn't assume Notre Dame will eventually be back on top, either.

For that matter, before U$C hired Pete Carroll, and before OU hired Bob Stoops, a lot of people didn't assume those teams would ever be back on top, either.

But when programs like that finally find The Right Guy, their upside is much greater than if the same guy was coaching at, say, Vanderbilt or Washington State or Georgia State or UTEP. It's not "fair", but it's true.

I think that what programs like that have - a "recoverability factor" they can be horrific for years at a time, but when it finally clicks again for them, it's as if though they bounce right back to where the public forgets that those bad years ever happened. (Some schools have the opposite issue, where the stench of bad seasons is so pervasive that it will take 2 decades straight of winning to overcome negative perception. See Rutgers and Illinois.)

Also, I COMPLETELY disagree with the people that are down on Miami. They will continue to grab spectacular recruiting classes and with the right coach in place, they'll be just fine once again. They are a TV draw way beyond their private school fan base - I can tell you that people across the country still think of Miami as a "big game" no matter how they're playing in a particular year. Plus, if you've ever visited their campus, you'll know why recruits flock there. Miami has a different vibe from the other Florida schools where it's much more attractive culturally to East Coast recruits. The South Beach factor can't be underestimated - it's basically the most fun place with the most perks for an 18-year old jock outside of maybe USC. I guarantee you that Miami is the school that other coaches fear of getting back on track because it's a place that effectively sells itself to recruits (both within the Miami area and all across the East Coast).

It would create really weird divisions for a North/South breakdown.

South: UCF - USF - Houston - TCU - L-ville - Cincy
North: WVU - Pitt - Cuse - Rutgers - UConn - Temple

Clear rivalries in the South tho...

I guess the "Seton Hall getting dropped" argument collapsed of its own weight.

(11-01-2010 12:38 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  I divided FL by 5 because UCF was named as the #5 program in FL in the previous post & NC by 3 because ECU was named as #3 in NC in that same post. In reality I should have divided NC by 5 because that's how many BCS programs there are in the state.

I wasn't claiming that each school gets an even number of fans, but was just showing the proportions of each school in relation to the population of the state as the arena in which each school has to compete. My math was a "best case" scenario for ECU because I was giving the benefit of the doubt & ignoring WF & Duke. Even in this best case, ECU comes out behind UCF.

Bill, I hope you don't mind, I deleted all of the prior embedded posts as they were getting lengthy.

I found this from a while back......

Bill Marsh Wrote:
(08-13-2010 11:54 AM)ECMAN79 Wrote:
ECU is 3rd in home attendance average due to our stadium size. It's smaller then NC State's and North Carolina's. Do you understand that concept?

Stadiums are built to a size that matches the capability of the fan base to fill them. ECU has a smaller stadium than UNC & NC State because they have a smaller fan base & are less capable of filling a bigger stadium. If there was a greater demand for tickets, they would expand the stadium or build a new one.

Do you understand that concept?


Bill, I understand that concept completely! I'm glad to see someone else does too! Using that premise, I did a little research a while ago. Here's some numbers. These are just for the CUSA usual suspects.

The information regarding attendance averages was obtained from the NCAA website and the populaiton information from the US Census Bureau's website. I'm only comparing Division 1A schools. Also, I compiled this earlier this year and I believe I only used regular season figures for everyone.

State of North Carolina Average Attendance (2009)

Duke 26,314
ECU 41,742
UNC-CH 56,607
NCSU 56,422
Wake 31,791

Total 212,876

ECU's Capture 19.61% (prior to stadium expansion)




State of Florida average attendance (2009)

FIU 10,204
Fl. Atlantic 15,326
Florida 90,635
Fl. State 74,345
Miami 47,551
USF 52,553
UCF 38,078

Total 328,692

UCF's Capture 11.58%




State of Tennessee average attendance (2009)

Memphis 25,795
Middle Tenn 20,517
Tennessee 99,220
Vandy 35,015

Total 180,547

Memphis' capture 14.29%


Lets take into consideration, the populations of the states in which the schools are located.

North Carolina....population (2009)....... 9,380,884
population growth 2000-2009 1.84% annually (straight line)
capture x population............1,839,591


Florida......population (2009)........ 18,537,969
population growth 2000-2009 1.78% annually (straight line)
capture x population...............2,146,697


Tennesse........population (2009)......6,296,254
population growth 2000-2009 1.19% annually (straight line)
capture x population.................899,735


Since that time, we expanded our stadium by 7,000 seats to now seat 50,000. Through 4 games, we're averaging 49,672 or 99.34% of capacity and rank 44th in the nation. I've found the year-to-date numbers for North Carolina. This takes into consideration, our expanded stadium.


Duke 31,546
ECU 49,672
UNC-CH 57,375
NCSU 56,820
Wake 30,399

Total 225,812

ECU's Capture 22.00% (since stadium expansion)

capture x population............2,063,794

Not as far off of UCF's numbers (2,146,697) as you would think.

I was surprised to see Temple included on the list of candidates. Many of us thought they would never be allowed to rejoin the Big East, but it appears they have a shot if Villanova does not move up.

I did notice that Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Philadelphia are all Top 10 media markets, and Orlando is Top 20. Media market could be keeping Temple in the conversation.

(11-01-2010 12:23 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:19 PM)rulethirty Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:01 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  At this point ECU has done everything it is capable of doing to be ready. Expanded the stadium, filled the stadium, upgraded every single athletic facility, won back to back championships, so if it isn't enough then it never will be. It's as simple as that. We will have tough decisions to make if we get left behind again.

Annnd there it is. The real reason ECU fans are such jerks to UCF folks.

We all knew the fear of "being left behind again" was the motivator, it's just nice to see it in writing

It is the same reason that you don't want ECU in, because you don't want to be left behind either :)

I'm honestly not very concerned about it. Boise and TCU have proven themselves just fine and as far as I'm concerned, they're the only two teams in the country who are entitled to complain about this mess. We'll worry about it when we outgrow C-USA.

Looking at that list of alleged front runners, I'd say UCF was third in line (based on potential tv sets for a network. Remember, it's not just about interest in the home team, just teams from the conference). Adding TCU + Houston makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm not convinced `Nova will move up to d1. It then becomes a question of 10 vs. 12.

(11-01-2010 10:33 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Houston is looking at building a brand new football stadium with much higher capacity. Their current stadium doesn't hold much more if any more than that average. I wouldn't go to basketball games either if the league games consisted of teams like ECU and Tulane and Southern Miss. In the Big East, their attendance would increase as it has for every team added to the league.

Take that bolded statement, replace ECU with almost any other CUSA team except Memphis and UAB, and that statement would apply to ECU as well.

During the ECU/UCF game this weekend, the tv announcers mentioned one reason for a less-than-stellar crowd was because UF was playing at home. That is in line with my theory that, in an MSA of over 2 mil people, most of those are UF and Fl. State fans. If anyone had said that about ECU football, I would have been embarrassed. Now, if the same was said during an ECU basketball game, I would just have to agree.

Someone else mentioned in this thread about how slow football powers are at changing; that the football powers that emerged after WWII are still the same today. If that's true, imagine how long it will take to gain ground against the likes of UF and Fl. State.

Again, I'm not bashing; just merely pointing out the obvious. We face the SAME battle in basketball.

(11-01-2010 12:42 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  As the article reported:

"Several sources confirmed a Post report last month that TCU is a strong candidate. Houston, Central Florida, Temple and/or Villanova, which is in the midst of evaluating a move up from FCS, are other lead candidates."

The only reason Temple is mentioned by Big East sources is to force Villanova's hand. Temple will never get back into the Big East.

Villanova might be able to split home games between the soccer stadium, University of Pennsylvania's Franklin Field, and possibly the Phillies home stadium. Wasn't scheduling control of a home stadium on Saturdays one of the criteria that got Temple kicked out in the first place? I'll answer that: Yes it was.

Big East: The gift that keeps on giving.

(11-01-2010 12:55 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:05 PM)knightastic Wrote:  

Plus, if you've ever visited their campus, you'll know why recruits flock there. Miami has a different vibe from the other Florida schools where it's much more attractive culturally to East Coast recruits. The South Beach factor can't be underestimated - it's basically the most fun place with the most perks for an 18-year old jock outside of maybe USC. I guarantee you that Miami is the school that other coaches fear of getting back on track because it's a place that effectively sells itself to recruits (both within the Miami area and all across the East Coast).

I might be getting off track w/ this thread while what you say is partially true, the vibe might not be for everyone for a true college experience. It has a very small undergraduate population w/ surprisingly not many good looking women, remember it's private so a lot of the social life as a Miami student is just enjoying Miami as a city which can easily be done after college. They now play around 40 minutes north of campus instead of the old orange bowl that was a lot closer despite being off campus. I knew several girls that went there. They might get 'special treatment' but if they don't, the prices to do anything there are not in most college students budget unless you're a loaded trust fund kid from the North East(a lot of U. Miami's student pop). I don't know how all recruits think but some might want to get away from that especially if they grew up in Miami.

I think UCF has the best 'Florida vibe' at of all the Florida Universities that are always mentioned here. It looks fresh, new, and with a resort look to it's campus w/ the leisure pool, etc. And while Downtown Orlando is 10 miles away for plenty of bars/entertainment, there is a nice strip of true 'cheap dive college bars' surrounding campus where our players are seen after games and gives the area a 'college town' atmosphere but just outside of a city. FSU ofcourse has a great atmosphere in their social bubble but is surrounded by the deep south. UF is the only true college town in the state, is the flagship, centrally located, and is a mix of deep south and 'florida' feel. USF has a very 'urban commuter school' vibe and there are a lot of challenges for them to change that. Like I mentioned earlier Miami under Shalala won't be elite again, they get T.V. ratings but that will go away if they keep losing 4-5 games a year.

Bill Marsh Wrote:
(08-13-2010 11:54 AM)ECMAN79 Wrote:
ECU is 3rd in home attendance average due to our stadium size. It's smaller then NC State's and North Carolina's. Do you understand that concept?

Stadiums are built to a size that matches the capability of the fan base to fill them. ECU has a smaller stadium than UNC & NC State because they have a smaller fan base & are less capable of filling a bigger stadium. If there was a greater demand for tickets, they would expand the stadium or build a new one.

Do you understand that concept?[/quote]

Dowdy Ficklen seats 50,000 and we currently average 99.34% capacity. Plans are underway for our second phase of expansion to include luxury suites, meeting space and a new press box on the south side.

Carter Finley seats +/-57,500. Kenan seats 60,000.

We're third on the list, but soon to be growing again!

(11-01-2010 01:50 PM)qwerty1 Wrote:  The only reason Temple is mentioned by Big East sources is to force Villanova's hand. Temple will never get back into the Big East.

Villanova might be able to split home games between the soccer stadium, University of Pennsylvania's Franklin Field, and possibly the Phillies home stadium. Wasn't scheduling control of a home stadium on Saturdays one of the criteria that got Temple kicked out in the first place? I'll answer that: Yes it was.

Big East: The gift that keeps on giving.

I'll debate this with you. If the FB schools are looking at splitting, Temple is definitely in play. If Nova doesn't jump up and the FB schools split, there is no chance they abandon the 4th largest market in the country. Even if they don't split, that sized market adds to the TV value.

I've been blowing this thread up today and it's been fun, but this is my last post.

I'm no TV exec and don't claim to have all the numbers. I'm not a decision maker in any way, shape or form; just enjoy expansion talk. With that being said, ECU has a sizable fanbase, over 27,000 students; the fastest growing school in one of the top ten most populated and fastest growing states in the Union.

Our fans travel from great distances to go to games as evidenced by our attendance vs. the population of Greenville. I'm not smart, but one thing's for certain, all those people aren't coming from the east unless they're coming by boat from Bermuda, which I don't think's the case. That only leaves north, south and west. To the north is Tidewater, VA and DC, the west is Raleigh-Durham (and Charlotte) and the south is, well, South Carolina. I make no claims that we carry any of these markets, but I do know we have a strong presence there. (That's like saying UCF carries Orlando) To dismiss us simply as Greenville being the 103rd ranked TV market is a little short-sighted. I think the Big East leadership is aware of our current/potential reach and influence on the Mid-Atlantic Seaboard.

Based on TV markets, these may agree...

105. Florida State
106. University of Nebraska
112. Boise State
114. Michigan State
116. University of Indiana
119. University of Oregon
143. Texas Tech University
160. University of Florida
183. University of Virginia

(11-01-2010 02:11 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 01:50 PM)qwerty1 Wrote:  The only reason Temple is mentioned by Big East sources is to force Villanova's hand. Temple will never get back into the Big East.

Villanova might be able to split home games between the soccer stadium, University of Pennsylvania's Franklin Field, and possibly the Phillies home stadium. Wasn't scheduling control of a home stadium on Saturdays one of the criteria that got Temple kicked out in the first place? I'll answer that: Yes it was.

Big East: The gift that keeps on giving.

I'll debate this with you. If the FB schools are looking at splitting, Temple is definitely in play. If Nova doesn't jump up and the FB schools split, there is no chance they abandon the 4th largest market in the country. Even if they don't split, that sized market adds to the TV value.

I agree with you here. It's not that I think Temple is exactly a great addition, but frankly, they add as much or more than Villanova in a split situation. They don't have any start-up costs to move up to FBS and or any stadium issues. The problems that they do have (attendance, fan base, tepid support in Philly market) are the exact problems that Villanova would have. I understand why Villanova would be asked to move up if there isn't a split since it would obviously be a compromise to keep the hybrid together, but they make absolutely no sense in a split league when Temple is essentially brining the same elements or more to the table.

(11-01-2010 02:15 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  Based on TV markets, these may agree...

105. Florida State
106. University of Nebraska
112. Boise State
114. Michigan State
116. University of Indiana
119. University of Oregon
143. Texas Tech University
160. University of Florida
183. University of Virginia

Note how 8 of those 9 pretty much represent an entire state (Boise is debatable), NOT a region, and most of them started football somewhere around 100 years ago. So your point? Moot.

(11-01-2010 02:15 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  I've been blowing this thread up today and it's been fun, but this is my last post.

I'm no TV exec and don't claim to have all the numbers. I'm not a decision maker in any way, shape or form; just enjoy expansion talk. With that being said, ECU has a sizable fanbase, over 27,000 students; the fastest growing school in one of the top ten most populated and fastest growing states in the Union.

Our fans travel from great distances to go to games as evidenced by our attendance vs. the population of Greenville. I'm not smart, but one thing's for certain, all those people aren't coming from the east unless they're coming by boat from Bermuda, which I don't think's the case. That only leaves north, south and west. To the north is Tidewater, VA and DC, the west is Raleigh-Durham (and Charlotte) and the south is, well, South Carolina. I make no claims that we carry any of these markets, but I do know we have a strong presence there. (That's like saying UCF carries Orlando) To dismiss us simply as Greenville being the 103rd ranked TV market is a little short-sighted. I think the Big East leadership is aware of our current/potential reach and influence on the Mid-Atlantic Seaboard.

Based on TV markets, these may agree...

105. Florida State
106. University of Nebraska
112. Boise State
114. Michigan State
116. University of Indiana
119. University of Oregon
143. Texas Tech University
160. University of Florida
183. University of Virginia

5 of the schools on that lists are the flagship school of their State. Florida State is located in the state capital. Market matters when you're not the flagship school unless you were invited in on the good ole boy network over 50 years ago like some programs that currently find themselves in BCS conferences(Iowa State, Baylor)

(11-01-2010 02:21 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 02:15 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  Based on TV markets, these may agree...

105. Florida State
106. University of Nebraska
112. Boise State
114. Michigan State
116. University of Indiana
119. University of Oregon
143. Texas Tech University
160. University of Florida
183. University of Virginia

Note how 8 of those 9 pretty much represent an entire state (Boise is debatable) and most of them started football somewhere around 100 years ago. So your point? Moot.

Dangit, Knighttower, (and Knightastic) I said that was my last post. Don't you know ECU is the flagship university of the 51st State!! EAST CAROLINA!

(11-01-2010 02:15 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  I've been blowing this thread up today and it's been fun, but this is my last post.

I'm no TV exec and don't claim to have all the numbers. I'm not a decision maker in any way, shape or form; just enjoy expansion talk. With that being said, ECU has a sizable fanbase, over 27,000 students; the fastest growing school in one of the top ten most populated and fastest growing states in the Union.

Our fans travel from great distances to go to games as evidenced by our attendance vs. the population of Greenville. I'm not smart, but one thing's for certain, all those people aren't coming from the east unless they're coming by boat from Bermuda, which I don't think's the case. That only leaves north, south and west. To the north is Tidewater, VA and DC, the west is Raleigh-Durham (and Charlotte) and the south is, well, South Carolina. I make no claims that we carry any of these markets, but I do know we have a strong presence there. (That's like saying UCF carries Orlando) To dismiss us simply as Greenville being the 103rd ranked TV market is a little short-sighted. I think the Big East leadership is aware of our current/potential reach and influence on the Mid-Atlantic Seaboard.

Based on TV markets, these may agree...

105. Florida State
106. University of Nebraska
112. Boise State
114. Michigan State
116. University of Indiana
119. University of Oregon
143. Texas Tech University
160. University of Florida
183. University of Virginia

I like ECU and in terms of fan base attendance and overall football play over the past decade, it's likely the best of the C-USA options on paper. The problem is that I just don't think anyone outside of North Carolina and maybe some contingent areas in Virginia realizes it - there is virtually no national opinion about ECU (good, bad or indifferent). Memphis has a horrid football program, but they've played enough elite level basketball games where at least the average person off the street will hear the school's name and say, "Oh, that's a major basketball program." I'm not saying Memphis is a great option, either, as they truly have been terrible in football, yet there's some national name recognition.

Does the average sports fan in California or the Midwest turn on a football game to watch ECU just because ECU is involved? If we're being honest here, probably not. What about TCU? Well, that's likely a different answer.

(11-01-2010 02:15 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  I've been blowing this thread up today and it's been fun, but this is my last post.

I'm no TV exec and don't claim to have all the numbers. I'm not a decision maker in any way, shape or form; just enjoy expansion talk. With that being said, ECU has a sizable fanbase, over 27,000 students; the fastest growing school in one of the top ten most populated and fastest growing states in the Union.

Our fans travel from great distances to go to games as evidenced by our attendance vs. the population of Greenville. I'm not smart, but one thing's for certain, all those people aren't coming from the east unless they're coming by boat from Bermuda, which I don't think's the case. That only leaves north, south and west. To the north is Tidewater, VA and DC, the west is Raleigh-Durham (and Charlotte) and the south is, well, South Carolina. I make no claims that we carry any of these markets, but I do know we have a strong presence there. (That's like saying UCF carries Orlando) To dismiss us simply as Greenville being the 103rd ranked TV market is a little short-sighted. I think the Big East leadership is aware of our current/potential reach and influence on the Mid-Atlantic Seaboard.

I'll agree with you on the bolded statement. Hence:
Several sources confirmed a Post report last month that TCU is a strong candidate. Houston, Central Florida, Temple and/or Villanova, which is in the midst of evaluating a move up from FCS, are other lead candidates.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/f...z143qsuPDl

The other thing about Memphis is that IF they were good, I think it's fair to say that people in Memphis would get behind them. Their media market could become an asset. But that's only if they ever actually got good.