Was reading Children of Dune by Frank Hebert. On page 221, it had this quote as one of the truths believed by the Bene Gesserit Witches:

"Governments. If they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively for the interests of the ruling class---whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy."

(08-03-2024 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  Was reading Children of Dune by Frank Hebert. On page 221, it had this quote as one of the truths believed by the Bene Gesserit Witches:

"Governments. If they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively for the interests of the ruling class---whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy."

We are at that stage now with Democrats. 250 years is nothing in the scheme of Kingdoms.

(08-03-2024 04:33 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  Was reading Children of Dune by Frank Hebert. On page 221, it had this quote as one of the truths believed by the Bene Gesserit Witches:

"Governments. If they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively for the interests of the ruling class---whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy."

We are at that stage now with Democrats. 250 years is nothing in the scheme of Kingdoms.

XACLY! ... one is a fk'n idiot if not viewing from that lens ... @muhSpeciesSucksFrumunda

I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

basically, the premise is the dissolve within a triumvirate 'wanting' a single source ... yep, it's beyond a phallic fallacy....

#rememberedCorrectly+

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

He eventually wrote 6 books in the Dune series. The trilogy was the original plan, Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune.

There are about 20 extra books with side stories or explanations that he or his son wrote.

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

It was originally a trilogy, yes. The first 3 were incredible. I have the first 7, but nothing after the first 3 were worth reading imo.

(08-03-2024 09:33 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

It was originally a trilogy, yes. The first 3 were incredible. I have the first 7, but nothing after the first 3 were worth reading imo.

I hadn't read Dune since the 70s. My son read the 6 in the core Dune story and convinced me to read Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. He liked the next 3, but said they were just ok.

And for those who saw the recent 2 part movie, the first book ends somewhat differently. They Disneyized and wokeized the end. And they set it up for Zendaya to play a big part in a 3rd movie.

(08-03-2024 05:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 04:33 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  Was reading Children of Dune by Frank Hebert. On page 221, it had this quote as one of the truths believed by the Bene Gesserit Witches:

"Governments. If they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively for the interests of the ruling class---whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy."

We are at that stage now with Democrats. 250 years is nothing in the scheme of Kingdoms.

XACLY! ... one is a fk'n idiot if not viewing from that lens ... @muhSpeciesSucksFrumunda

to y'all's point...



And yet, many hate the man who brings HIS OWN money to the job instead of stealingt it from the taxpayers like most every other politician...go figure...

(08-03-2024 06:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

He eventually wrote 6 books in the Dune series. The trilogy was the original plan, Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune.

There are about 20 extra books with side stories or explanations that he or his son wrote.

I knew there were an additional 3 and that his son collaborated to pen some additional books. I had no idea t here were so many. I'm pretty sure I didn't read the 3 written after Children Of Dune.

I hate re-reading books from my youth that I liked tremendously at the time of reading. I did that with Stranger in a Strange Land and actually hated it, at least the last third of it when things got really weird. It made me realize that Heinlein would fit right in with all the freaks and weirdo's running around loose in this country today.

(08-03-2024 09:33 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

It was originally a trilogy, yes. The first 3 were incredible. I have the first 7, but nothing after the first 3 were worth reading imo.

I swear, brother from another mother. +3

(08-03-2024 11:41 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 04:33 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  Was reading Children of Dune by Frank Hebert. On page 221, it had this quote as one of the truths believed by the Bene Gesserit Witches:

"Governments. If they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively for the interests of the ruling class---whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy."

We are at that stage now with Democrats. 250 years is nothing in the scheme of Kingdoms.

XACLY! ... one is a fk'n idiot if not viewing from that lens ... @muhSpeciesSucksFrumunda

to y'all's point...



And yet, many hate the man who brings HIS OWN money to the job instead of stealingt it from the taxpayers like most every other politician...go figure...

Envy and jealousy are powerful emotions I guess.

(08-04-2024 06:56 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I hate re-reading books from my youth that I liked tremendously at the time of reading.

I've had the same experience a number of times. I can't decide if I was a moron then or a moron now.

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

I actually thought the first dune series was not bad considering the computers and graphics we had at the time. But you knew it wasn't going to get through all of them at the time with how big they were.

Quote:I did that with Stranger in a Strange Land and actually hated it, at least the last third of it when things got really weird. It made me realize that Heinlein would fit right in with all the

Tiger!! I no longer like you whatsoever!! Ye shall not criticize my 2nd favoritest author of all times without a duel being declared. We shall draw dueling swords at Dawn on the morrow!

But did you know Heinlein hated the fact that people thought SIASL was his Manifesto about what was wrong with society overall.

(Although he did get a kick out of the "Church of All Worlds" that was created at one point, based on this book).

(08-04-2024 06:56 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 06:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

He eventually wrote 6 books in the Dune series. The trilogy was the original plan, Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune.

There are about 20 extra books with side stories or explanations that he or his son wrote.

I knew there were an additional 3 and that his son collaborated to pen some additional books. I had no idea t here were so many. I'm pretty sure I didn't read the 3 written after Children Of Dune.

I hate re-reading books from my youth that I liked tremendously at the time of reading. I did that with Stranger in a Strange Land and actually hated it, at least the last third of it when things got really weird. It made me realize that Heinlein would fit right in with all the freaks and weirdo's running around loose in this country today.

i've re-read a few. Just re-read Great Gatsby. There were a number of Sci-Fi writers in the 60s, "New Wave." who would fit in well. Harlan Ellison for one. He wrote "City on the Edge of Forever," one of my favorite Star Trek TOS episodes.

(08-04-2024 06:56 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 06:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

He eventually wrote 6 books in the Dune series. The trilogy was the original plan, Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune.

There are about 20 extra books with side stories or explanations that he or his son wrote.

I knew there were an additional 3 and that his son collaborated to pen some additional books. I had no idea t here were so many. I'm pretty sure I didn't read the 3 written after Children Of Dune.

I hate re-reading books from my youth that I liked tremendously at the time of reading. I did that with Stranger in a Strange Land and actually hated it, at least the last third of it when things got really weird. It made me realize that Heinlein would fit right in with all the freaks and weirdo's running around loose in this country today.

I'd seen there were a bunch in the book store, but was surprised when I looked at the cover of Children of Dune (a recent edition) and saw how many there were. Actually Frank Hebert only wrote the 6. His son with Kevin Anderson wrote 16 more (House Corrino, House Atredies, Mentats of Dune, etc.) as well as 3 by himself that seem more biographical about his father and writing the books.

Dune has its Treky like fan base.

(08-04-2024 11:18 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-03-2024 05:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I read Dune many years ago, I think I was still in high school. Am I misremembering that it was originally a trilogy? I saw the original film version and remember being distinctly underwhelmed. The latest efforts have been far superior.

I actually thought the first dune series was not bad considering the computers and graphics we had at the time. But you knew it wasn't going to get through all of them at the time with how big they were.

Quote:I did that with Stranger in a Strange Land and actually hated it, at least the last third of it when things got really weird. It made me realize that Heinlein would fit right in with all the

Tiger!! I no longer like you whatsoever!! Ye shall not criticize my 2nd favoritest author of all times without a duel being declared. We shall draw dueling swords at Dawn on the morrow!

But did you know Heinlein hated the fact that people thought SIASL was his Manifesto about what was wrong with society overall.

(Although he did get a kick out of the "Church of All Worlds" that was created at one point, based on this book).

I always liked Heinlein and I know I read SIASL, but I don't remember it at all, except a "sense" that it reminds me of the Moties on Earth in "The Mote in God's Eye,"(Niven and Pournelle). I do have copies of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Time Enough for Love," but I don't remember them either.

I was excited that I could fulfill my English literature requirement at Texas with "English Literature-Science Fiction." Still haven't read all the books on the reading list he gave us, but I'm slowly working on it. Got about 70 out of the 100, all published before mid-70s. The remaining ones are hard to find. I recently read "Nerves" by Lester Del Rey written in the 40s. It was on Kindle and they had xeroxed the pages. Obviously out of print. It dealt with nuclear power and was a good story, but hopelessly wrong scientifically.

Harlan Ellison was incredible. Any Asimov fans here?

(08-04-2024 12:38 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Harlan Ellison was incredible. Any Asimov fans here?

Yes!

I was wondering if that was DaSaint's favorite ahead of Heinlein. I've done all the Foundation Series, think I've done all the Empire series, a good bit of the robot series and several of his non-sci-fi books. His "Chronicles of the World" is a really good "encyclopedia" of history if you are in to history. Have been thinking about re-reading the Foundation Series. I'm sure its been over 40 years since I read the first 4. I even read the 3 followup Foundation novels by other authors after he passed (they weren't that good). "Pebble in the Sky" I really enjoyed. Its kind of a "prelude" to the Empire series.

I really like Alfred Bester, but he only wrote two novels (the Stars my Destination and the Demolished Man), along with some short stories.

What amazes me is a lot of the scifi I read as a kid and young adult no longer seems like scifi but more like prescience. Consider Orwell if you will.