This isn't sports specific but rather a commentary on the changing landscape (which is exacerbated by the new NIL/Portal environment).

These programs used to help define their sports. Now they are usually bottom feeders.

UNLV MBB
SMU FB
Louisiana Tech WBB
Wichita State BSB
Georgetown MBB
Rice BSB
ODU WBB
Nebraska FB

Is there a world in which they regain their once lofty perches? Conference realignment can offer opportunities and take them away. Can SMU ascend in the ACC better then Nebraska was able to in the Big 10?
With the emergence of Women's Basketball on the national scene, can a CUSA or Sunbelt WBB program become dominant again?
Georgetown plays in an empty tomb of an arena. It's hard to see the Thompson days ever returning there. Same for UNLV. Despite the 6 bids for the Mountain West, UNLV was shut out.

Whenever realignment happens, certain teams just aren't positioned well enough to retain success.

Is there a way for these teams to reverse their conference hierarchies and national hierarchies as well? If so, how can they get there?

UNLV MBB

No because theres been enough coaches since Jerry Tarkanian to know it isnt happening.

SMU FB

Maybe because now they are in a power conference and if the big teams leave they can dominate.

Louisiana Tech WBB

No because Leon Barmore isnt walking though the door again.

Wichita State BSB

No because Gene Stephenson isnt walking through the door again.

Georgetown MBB

Maybe because only 1 team dominates the Big East so theres room for someone else to challenge them.

Rice BSB

No. Wayne Graham is gone.

ODU WBB

They still have winning seasons every year so its not like they completely fell off.

Nebraska FB

Nope. Cant recruit heavily in Texas anymore and cant recruit against the other Big Ten schools.

If you’re in a power conference with boosters to fund NIL, then you have the resources to compete. From there, it’s that alchemy of the right coach with the right fit and the right mix of players. This is a national talent market for football and basketball, so the notion that a school can’t recruit Texas or some other area is old thinking.

Nebraska might have the most supportive fans of any college athletic department in the country and SMU and Georgetown have particularly wealthy boosters. They’re all in power conferences, so they all have the resources to compete. Whether they can reach the levels that they did before is about the implementation of those resources.

The others are the opposite: they’re *structurally* disadvantaged where they don’t have top level level resources at all, so they’re likely precluded from competing at the top level from the start. UNLV might be the only one that can overcome that disadvantage because of their location that, in theory, could create a strong NIL collective (but I don’t know if they’re actually doing that) and is a place that would be naturally attractive to recruits. Everyone else is probably going to be fundamentally challenged in the resource game unless Rice alums suddenly want to be SMU-like in their support for athletics.

(04-13-2024 03:18 AM)Big12HoopsHeaven Wrote:  This isn't sports specific but rather a commentary on the changing landscape (which is exacerbated by the new NIL/Portal environment).

These programs used to help define their sports. Now they are usually bottom feeders.

UNLV MBB
SMU FB
Louisiana Tech WBB
Wichita State BSB
Georgetown MBB
Rice BSB
ODU WBB
Nebraska FB

Is there a world in which they regain their once lofty perches? Conference realignment can offer opportunities and take them away. Can SMU ascend in the ACC better then Nebraska was able to in the Big 10?
With the emergence of Women's Basketball on the national scene, can a CUSA or Sunbelt WBB program become dominant again?
Georgetown plays in an empty tomb of an arena. It's hard to see the Thompson days ever returning there. Same for UNLV. Despite the 6 bids for the Mountain West, UNLV was shut out.

Whenever realignment happens, certain teams just aren't positioned well enough to retain success.

Is there a way for these teams to reverse their conference hierarchies and national hierarchies as well? If so, how can they get there?

UNLV men's hoops and LaTech and ODU women's hoops will struggle to regain national prominence. But I suppose it could, in theory, happen for any of the three. I don't foresee it.

I could actually see SMU football being a "poor man's TCU." And that would not be a bad thing at all.

Rice and Wichita baseball could definitely recapture some national credibility. There are lots of quality college baseball programs that are not part of what will be the future all-sports P4. In fact, baseball offers a nice example of how NOT being affiliated with an all-sports power league can be, to an extent, an advantage.

Nebraska football faces a "geography/location/demographics problem." The days of the Huskers battling for national titles are likely over.

Georgetown men's basketball now offers some hope with Ed Cooley. The program might never been as powerful as it was under Big John Thompson but the potential to be nationally relevant (at least more so than it has been) remains.

(04-13-2024 10:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 03:18 AM)Big12HoopsHeaven Wrote:  This isn't sports specific but rather a commentary on the changing landscape (which is exacerbated by the new NIL/Portal environment).

These programs used to help define their sports. Now they are usually bottom feeders.

UNLV MBB
SMU FB
Louisiana Tech WBB
Wichita State BSB
Georgetown MBB
Rice BSB
ODU WBB
Nebraska FB

Is there a world in which they regain their once lofty perches? Conference realignment can offer opportunities and take them away. Can SMU ascend in the ACC better then Nebraska was able to in the Big 10?
With the emergence of Women's Basketball on the national scene, can a CUSA or Sunbelt WBB program become dominant again?
Georgetown plays in an empty tomb of an arena. It's hard to see the Thompson days ever returning there. Same for UNLV. Despite the 6 bids for the Mountain West, UNLV was shut out.

Whenever realignment happens, certain teams just aren't positioned well enough to retain success.

Is there a way for these teams to reverse their conference hierarchies and national hierarchies as well? If so, how can they get there?

UNLV men's hoops and LaTech and ODU women's hoops will struggle to regain national prominence. But I suppose it could, in theory, happen for any of the three. I don't foresee it.

I could actually see SMU football being a "poor man's TCU." And that would not be a bad thing at all.

Rice and Wichita baseball could definitely recapture some national credibility. There are lots of quality college baseball programs that are not part of what will be the future all-sports P4. In fact, baseball offers a nice example of how NOT being affiliated with an all-sports power league can be, to an extent, an advantage.

Nebraska football faces a "geography/location/demographics problem." The days of the Huskers battling for national titles are likely over.

Georgetown men's basketball now offers some hope with Ed Cooley. The program might never been as powerful as it was under Big John Thompson but the potential to be nationally relevant (at least more so than it has been) remains.

SMU and TCU need to maintain that rivalry now that it's a Power rivalry.

I would say any of them could I suppose. But it would be virtually unconnected to the past success, and more of a case of things falling into place.

However, UNLV basketball is more primed for it than most of the others IMO. Vegas supports the Rebels and the program is on simmer IMO. If any of the programs listed, I think it would happen there first. The Mountain West provides everything they need, and their location and fan base are bigger advantages than the others on the list have.

(04-13-2024 09:05 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Nebraska might have the most supportive fans of any college athletic department in the country and SMU and Georgetown have particularly wealthy boosters. They’re all in power conferences, so they all have the resources to compete.

Where are these wealthy Georgetown boosters of which you speak? The ones who could not drive a basketball practice facility that took eight years to complete? Or the ones who didn't get a football stadium finished for 15 years after they first broke ground, with the university ended up cutting costs by only building one half of it? Or that on-campus gym built in 1951 which sits forlorn because there is no money with which to renovate it? Without an on-campus home, you get games like this--how does this resonate with recruits?

(04-13-2024 09:05 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you’re in a power conference with boosters to fund NIL, then you have the resources to compete. From there, it’s that alchemy of the right coach with the right fit and the right mix of players. This is a national talent market for football and basketball, so the notion that a school can’t recruit Texas or some other area is old thinking.

Nebraska might have the most supportive fans of any college athletic department in the country and SMU and Georgetown have particularly wealthy boosters. They’re all in power conferences, so they all have the resources to compete. Whether they can reach the levels that they did before is about the implementation of those resources.

The others are the opposite: they’re *structurally* disadvantaged where they don’t have top level level resources at all, so they’re likely precluded from competing at the top level from the start. UNLV might be the only one that can overcome that disadvantage because of their location that, in theory, could create a strong NIL collective (but I don’t know if they’re actually doing that) and is a place that would be naturally attractive to recruits. Everyone else is probably going to be fundamentally challenged in the resource game unless Rice alums suddenly want to be SMU-like in their support for athletics.

I was thinking something similar. Georgetown and Nebraska a Major Brands with big $$ available to them, they'll always have a chance to compete. SMU in the NIL age also has a chance to compete.

(04-13-2024 06:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 09:05 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Nebraska might have the most supportive fans of any college athletic department in the country and SMU and Georgetown have particularly wealthy boosters. They’re all in power conferences, so they all have the resources to compete.

Where are these wealthy Georgetown boosters of which you speak? The ones who could not drive a basketball practice facility that took eight years to complete? Or the ones who didn't get a football stadium finished for 15 years after they first broke ground, with the university ended up cutting costs by only building one half of it? Or that on-campus gym built in 1951 which sits forlorn because there is no money with which to renovate it? Without an on-campus home, you get games like this--how does this resonate with recruits?

Seems Georgetown averaged about 6,700 fans per home game this year (not bad by some standards — but not good for GU). A lot of the excitement built over many years of success is now gone. But maybe Ed Cooley can return the program to respectability.

https://guhoyas.com/sports/mens-basketba...ath=mbball

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...ttendance/

(04-13-2024 06:58 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Seems Georgetown averaged about 6,700 fans per home game this year (not bad by some standards — but not good for GU). A lot of the excitement built over many years of success is now gone. But maybe Ed Cooley can return the program to respectability.

Two games--a "free admission" opener and the Syracuse game, accounted for 18 percent of the overall total. Georgetown has not sold out a home game in 11 years--the base is gone.

(04-13-2024 07:27 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 06:58 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Seems Georgetown averaged about 6,700 fans per home game this year (not bad by some standards — but not good for GU). A lot of the excitement built over many years of success is now gone. But maybe Ed Cooley can return the program to respectability.

Two games--a "free admission" opener and the Syracuse game, accounted for 18 percent of the overall total. Georgetown has not sold out a home game in 11 years--the base is gone.

Another poster and Georgetown fan (VCE, who seemingly no longer posts) made the same argument. It's unfortunate.

I can't see any of them becoming powers again. People say Nebraska, get real why would great young athletes want to go there, When you have much nicer places available to play. Their time has come and gone.

Georgetown will be respectable again within 3 years. SMU football will be solid in the ACC. I actually think UNLV basketball will get better. They nearly poached both Cronin and Beard. Also the MW will be the #6 league going forward most years so I think UNLV is in a decent spot.

UNLV MBB - Mark Few has built a similar power at Gonzaga with less resources. UNLV (and many other major programs outside the P5) just need a lifer coach.

SMU FB - I believe there were two dominant SMU eras: pre-Cowboys and Pony Express. NIL could get SMU as perennial top 20-40, sure. They'll never get to pre-Cowboys level though.


Georgetown MBB - Yeah, this is sort of the easiest one IMO. G'town is a destination job, somebody just has to want to live in DC. I think Cooley will be there until he retires or is forced out.


Nebraska FB - Oof. Probably not. NU had a lot of unique things going for it back when they were dominant. They should be a perennial top 40 program though.

(04-14-2024 08:13 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I can't see any of them becoming powers again. People say Nebraska, get real why would great young athletes want to go there, When you have much nicer places available to play. Their time has come and gone.

NIL. It’s nationalizing the recruiting market even more than before. Geography means less and less.

I’m telling you - Nebraska support for athletics across the board blows everyone else away. Sell out every football game for the past 60-plus years. Sell out nearly every men’s basketball game for the past decade. #1 in women’s volleyball attendance. Top 10 in baseball attendance. Everyone is a fair weather fan base compared to them. Combine that support with the Big Ten that now includes California and its insanity to make any declarative negative statements about Nebraska. Big Ten membership plus rabid fans plus crap loads of money overcomes a whole lot of geographic issues on this environment. Whether they spend that money wisely is a totally different question.

(04-14-2024 08:13 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I can't see any of them becoming powers again. People say Nebraska, get real why would great young athletes want to go there, When you have much nicer places available to play. Their time has come and gone.

Yes it is tough being worshiped by everyone in the entire state. Who would want that?

(04-14-2024 10:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 08:13 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I can't see any of them becoming powers again. People say Nebraska, get real why would great young athletes want to go there, When you have much nicer places available to play. Their time has come and gone.

NIL. It’s nationalizing the recruiting market even more than before. Geography means less and less.

I’m telling you - Nebraska support for athletics across the board blows everyone else away. Sell out every football game for the past 60-plus years. Sell out nearly every men’s basketball game for the past decade. #1 in women’s volleyball attendance. Top 10 in baseball attendance. Everyone is a fair weather fan base compared to them. Combine that support with the Big Ten that now includes California and its insanity to make any declarative negative statements about Nebraska. Big Ten membership plus rabid fans plus crap loads of money overcomes a whole lot of geographic issues on this environment. Whether they spend that money wisely is a totally different question.

From 1962 to 2002, NU only had THREE seasons ('67, '68, and '02) of less that NINE wins. Yeah, that's not happening again.

(04-14-2024 11:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 10:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 08:13 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I can't see any of them becoming powers again. People say Nebraska, get real why would great young athletes want to go there, When you have much nicer places available to play. Their time has come and gone.

NIL. It’s nationalizing the recruiting market even more than before. Geography means less and less.

I’m telling you - Nebraska support for athletics across the board blows everyone else away. Sell out every football game for the past 60-plus years. Sell out nearly every men’s basketball game for the past decade. #1 in women’s volleyball attendance. Top 10 in baseball attendance. Everyone is a fair weather fan base compared to them. Combine that support with the Big Ten that now includes California and its insanity to make any declarative negative statements about Nebraska. Big Ten membership plus rabid fans plus crap loads of money overcomes a whole lot of geographic issues on this environment. Whether they spend that money wisely is a totally different question.

From 1962 to 2002, NU only had THREE seasons ('67, '68, and '02) of less that NINE wins. Yeah, that's not happening again.

I mean - that’s a ridiculous standard for even the best programs in the modern era. If that’s your standard, no one can do it. Even Alabama and Ohio State have had more than 4 seasons each of fewer than 9 wins since 2000. That’s like saying that no one will do what John Wooden did at UCLA again. That’s true, but it’s also an insane standard to hold any program to today.

Can Nebraska be making the playoff and consistently competing for playoff spots? I don’t see why that’s particularly controversial. They have the hard part down - membership in a P2 league, massive fan base, and tons of NIL money. Once again, it’s about implementation at Nebraska. Any school would take that 1000 times out of 1000 compared to real entrenched structural advantages (such as no power conference membership, weak fans, low NIL funds, etc.).

(04-14-2024 01:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 11:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 10:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 08:13 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I can't see any of them becoming powers again. People say Nebraska, get real why would great young athletes want to go there, When you have much nicer places available to play. Their time has come and gone.

NIL. It’s nationalizing the recruiting market even more than before. Geography means less and less.

I’m telling you - Nebraska support for athletics across the board blows everyone else away. Sell out every football game for the past 60-plus years. Sell out nearly every men’s basketball game for the past decade. #1 in women’s volleyball attendance. Top 10 in baseball attendance. Everyone is a fair weather fan base compared to them. Combine that support with the Big Ten that now includes California and its insanity to make any declarative negative statements about Nebraska. Big Ten membership plus rabid fans plus crap loads of money overcomes a whole lot of geographic issues on this environment. Whether they spend that money wisely is a totally different question.

From 1962 to 2002, NU only had THREE seasons ('67, '68, and '02) of less that NINE wins. Yeah, that's not happening again.

I mean - that’s a ridiculous standard for even the best programs in the modern era. If that’s your standard, no one can do it. Even Alabama and Ohio State have had more than 4 seasons each of fewer than 9 wins since 2000. That’s like saying that no one will do what John Wooden did at UCLA again. That’s true, but it’s also an insane standard to hold any program to today.

Can Nebraska be making the playoff and consistently competing for playoff spots? I don’t see why that’s particularly controversial. They have the hard part down - membership in a P2 league, massive fan base, and tons of NIL money. Once again, it’s about implementation at Nebraska. Any school would take that 1000 times out of 1000 compared to real entrenched structural advantages (such as no power conference membership, weak fans, low NIL funds, etc.).

I said they should be top 40 every season, which they haven't.

They won't be the power program they once were though and I don't think that is particularly controversial. If you look at my previous post I was comparing the aforementioned programs to the height of their power status.

Nebraska absolutely can, maybe sooner than later. Rhule is the right guy.

Georgetown and UNLV are head scratchers to me. No reason they shouldn’t be competitive even if dominant isn’t likely.

SMU buying a seat a the big table, or the medium one at least should be interesting.