I just realized this, and it's blowing my mind.

1995 Big West football members (with current conference):

- Nevada (Mountain West)
- Louisiana (Sun Belt)
- Northern Illinois (MAC)
- New Mexico State (CUSA)
- Utah State (Mountain West)
- Arkansas State (Sun Belt)
- San Jose State (Mountain West)
- Louisiana Tech (CUSA)
- UNLV (Mountain West)
- Pacific (R.I.P.)

1996 Big West football members (with current conference):

- Nevada (Mountain West)
- North Texas (AAC)
- New Mexico State (CUSA)
- Boise State (Mountain West)
- Utah State (Mountain West)
- Idaho (Big Sky)

Has any other conference included members of all five current G5 conferences?

That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

(04-05-2024 04:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

Yeah, what were the reasons behind that? Moving from the MAC to (eventually) the Big West was, uh, an interesting path.

The Missouri Valley had an interesting history. They have members in all the P4 and 2 G5 (3 if you count MAC soccer affiliates).
4 Big 12 (ISU, KU, KSU, OK St.), 2 SEC (OU, MU) and 2 Big 10 (NU, Iowa-only 2 years) were members prior to the Big 8 splitoff in 1928, although Oklahoma St. stayed until 1956.
2 more Big 12 (Houston-51-59, Cincinnati-57-70), an ACC (Louisville-63-75), CUSA (NMSU 70-83), 4 AAC (UNT 57-75, Tulsa 35-96, Memphis-68-73, Wichita 49-2017) were members at various times in the peak years of 50s to mid 70s.
They also have former members in 8 different non-fbs conferences in Division I, II and III.

The Southern Conference spawned the SEC in 1933 and ACC in 1953, so they have teams in all the p4 and 2 G5. They have 10 SEC schools as former members, 8 ACC, 1 Big 12 (WVU), 1 Big 10 (MD), 1 AAC (Tulane) and, as I'm sure the OP knows, 3 Sun Belt-Marshall, GSU, App. St.

(04-05-2024 04:38 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

Yeah, what were the reasons behind that? Moving from the MAC to (eventually) the Big West was, uh, an interesting path.

Here's our AD's comments at the time:

"We have closer ties to Chicago, where the rest of the MAC has no recognition. I`m sure some of them are happy to see us leave.”

"As one of the nation`s 40 largest universities, Northern Illinois should be more competitive, with more appeal to the Chicago market. That couldn`t be done from our position on the western fringe of the MAC."

The administration also announced goals of expanding 31k-seat Huskie Stadium and a new basketball arena with the long-term goal of joining the Big Eight, and claimed our 25k enrollment was too big for the MAC.

NIU was run by the equivalent of drunken message boarders back then.

Had Long Beach State kept playing football beyond 1991, they would have also remained in the Big West in 1995-1996.

My guess is they would have been part of the WAC, Mountain West, and easily been included in the eventual PAC-2 expansion.

They might have even kept the PAC-12/10 alive because instead of San Diego State and SMU being talked about as replacements when USC/UCLA left for the Big Ten, it would have been SDSU and LBSU in order to re-capture the Southern California TV market.

(04-05-2024 10:53 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Had Long Beach State kept playing football beyond 1991, they would have also remained in the Big West in 1995-1996.

My guess is they would have been part of the WAC, Mountain West, and easily been included in the eventual PAC-2 expansion.

They might have even kept the PAC-12/10 alive because instead of San Diego State and SMU being talked about as replacements when USC/UCLA left for the Big Ten, it would have been SDSU and LBSU in order to re-capture the Southern California TV market.

San Jose State would have been left behind.

(04-05-2024 09:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  The Missouri Valley had an interesting history. They have members in all the P4 and 2 G5 (3 if you count MAC soccer affiliates).
4 Big 12 (ISU, KU, KSU, OK St.), 2 SEC (OU, MU) and 2 Big 10 (NU, Iowa-only 2 years) were members prior to the Big 8 splitoff in 1928, although Oklahoma St. stayed until 1956.
2 more Big 12 (Houston-51-59, Cincinnati-57-70), an ACC (Louisville-63-75), CUSA (NMSU 70-83), 4 AAC (UNT 57-75, Tulsa 35-96, Memphis-68-73, Wichita 49-2017) were members at various times in the peak years of 50s to mid 70s.
They also have former members in 8 different non-fbs conferences in Division I, II and III.

The Southern Conference spawned the SEC in 1933 and ACC in 1953, so they have teams in all the p4 and 2 G5. They have 10 SEC schools as former members, 8 ACC, 1 Big 12 (WVU), 1 Big 10 (MD), 1 AAC (Tulane) and, as I'm sure the OP knows, 3 Sun Belt-Marshall, GSU, App. St.

Living on the east coast, I had no idea the Missouri Valley had that history. Great info.

Looking at the MVC timeline, I'm surprised Tulsa was able to attach itself to the CUSA-to-AAC group of schools. They stayed in the MVC long after all of the other current FBS schools left.

The five most recent FBS schools who left were Cincinnati (1970), Memphis (1973), Texas State (1975), Louisville (1975), New Mexico State (1983)...then Tulsa long after (1996).

(04-05-2024 09:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:38 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

Yeah, what were the reasons behind that? Moving from the MAC to (eventually) the Big West was, uh, an interesting path.

Here's our AD's comments at the time:

"We have closer ties to Chicago, where the rest of the MAC has no recognition. I`m sure some of them are happy to see us leave.”

"As one of the nation`s 40 largest universities, Northern Illinois should be more competitive, with more appeal to the Chicago market. That couldn`t be done from our position on the western fringe of the MAC."

The administration also announced goals of expanding 31k-seat Huskie Stadium and a new basketball arena with the long-term goal of joining the Big Eight, and claimed our 25k enrollment was too big for the MAC.

NIU was run by the equivalent of drunken message boarders back then.

What's wild about that is NIU probably reached their peak in the MAC (Orange Bowl in 2012).

I wonder if adding Buffalo, UMass, UCF, and Temple helped that NIU mindset. They were/are still "on an island" relatively, but at least they aren't the only ones.

Something else that occurred to me: there were three almost exclusively western conferences in FBS as recently as 2011: Pac, MW, and WAC. WAC no longer sponsors FBS, Pac is going the way of the Dodo, and MW is all that’s left standing. It’s a sad state of affairs.

(04-05-2024 10:53 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Had Long Beach State kept playing football beyond 1991, they would have also remained in the Big West in 1995-1996.

My guess is they would have been part of the WAC, Mountain West, and easily been included in the eventual PAC-2 expansion.

They might have even kept the PAC-12/10 alive because instead of San Diego State and SMU being talked about as replacements when USC/UCLA left for the Big Ten, it would have been SDSU and LBSU in order to re-capture the Southern California TV market.

I agree. The Heels played an away game out there at the pyramid basketball venue.

(04-05-2024 09:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:38 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

Yeah, what were the reasons behind that? Moving from the MAC to (eventually) the Big West was, uh, an interesting path.

Here's our AD's comments at the time:

"We have closer ties to Chicago, where the rest of the MAC has no recognition. I`m sure some of them are happy to see us leave.”

"As one of the nation`s 40 largest universities, Northern Illinois should be more competitive, with more appeal to the Chicago market. That couldn`t be done from our position on the western fringe of the MAC."

The administration also announced goals of expanding 31k-seat Huskie Stadium and a new basketball arena with the long-term goal of joining the Big Eight, and claimed our 25k enrollment was too big for the MAC.

NIU was run by the equivalent of drunken message boarders back then.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing. I can only imagine the reaction here if someone started an 'NIU to the MWC thread,' but that basically is what happened ~30 years ago.

(04-05-2024 10:53 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Had Long Beach State kept playing football beyond 1991, they would have also remained in the Big West in 1995-1996.

My guess is they would have been part of the WAC, Mountain West, and easily been included in the eventual PAC-2 expansion.

They might have even kept the PAC-12/10 alive because instead of San Diego State and SMU being talked about as replacements when USC/UCLA left for the Big Ten, it would have been SDSU and LBSU in order to re-capture the Southern California TV market.

The real break point for Big West football would have been the post-1999 direction of the WAC. If Pacific, Cal State Fullerton, and Long Beach State were still playing football it's probably not enough to save Big West football.

2000
Big West (8) - Arkansas St, Boise St, Idaho, Long Beach St, New Mexico St, North Texas, Pacific, Utah State
WAC (9) - TCU, SMU, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, Fresno St, San Jose St, Hawaii, Nevada
Sun Belt - non-football

2001
Big West (8) - Arkansas St, Boise St, Idaho, Long Beach St, New Mexico St, North Texas, Pacific, Utah State
WAC (10) - Louisiana Tech, TCU, SMU, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, Fresno St, San Jose St, Hawaii, Nevada
Sun Belt - non-football; MTSU, Louisiana, ULM play as independents

2005
Big West - non-football
WAC (12)
Coastal - Hawaii, Fresno State, San Jose State, Long Beach St, Pacific, CSU Fullerton
Interior - Louisiana Tech, New Mexico St, Utah State, Boise St, Idaho, Nevada
Sun Belt (8) - Arkansas St, North Texas, MTSU, Louisiana, ULM, FIU, FAU, Troy St

The next big question would be if the WAC's "Final 5" (Idaho, NMSU, CSUF, Pacific, Long Beach St) would be able to hold on past 2012. Louisiana Tech and UTSA still bail for C-USA. Texas State to the Sun Belt probably still happens unless if enough schools like Montana jump to FBS via the WAC.

Even if no one else joins them by 2013, it's probably enough to make FBS independent life comfortable indefinitely. The WAC adds Denver, Seattle, and UT-Arlington as non-football member and keeps on trucking. It's possible BYU might even join them instead of the WCC while an FBS independent. Without Denver, the Summit League likely winds up with Utah Valley and UTRGV. Grand Canyon, Tarleton State, Dixie State/Utah Tech, and Cal Baptist whither away in Division II.

C-USA would still grab NMSU as a full member effective 2023. Pacific joins the WCC and becomes a football-only member of C-USA. Long Beach State, Idaho, and Cal State Fullerton enter into a similar arrangement with the Big West, which also takes non-football Seattle joins the Mountain West as a non-football offset to Hawaii. UT-Arlington joins the Summit, ending the WAC.

The Pac-2 then are faced with the same decision as to either take the entire Mountain West or to try to part it out for a "best-of-the rest" league. If they choose the latter the Mountain West raids C-USA football to restock.

Pac-12
Coastal - Washington State, Oregon State, San Diego St, Fresno St, Boise St, UNLV
Central - UTSA, North Texas, Colorado State, New Mexico, Memphis, Tulane

Mountain West
Western - Hawaii/Seattle, Nevada, San Jose State, Pacific, CSU Fullerton, Long Beach St
Mountain - Utah St, Idaho, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico St, UTEP

Big West (non-football)
UC San Diego, UC Irvine, UC Davis, UC Riverside, UC Santa Barbara, Cal Poly, CSU Northridge, CSU Bakersfield, Hawaii

(04-06-2024 08:49 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 09:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:38 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

Yeah, what were the reasons behind that? Moving from the MAC to (eventually) the Big West was, uh, an interesting path.

Here's our AD's comments at the time:

"We have closer ties to Chicago, where the rest of the MAC has no recognition. I`m sure some of them are happy to see us leave.”

"As one of the nation`s 40 largest universities, Northern Illinois should be more competitive, with more appeal to the Chicago market. That couldn`t be done from our position on the western fringe of the MAC."

The administration also announced goals of expanding 31k-seat Huskie Stadium and a new basketball arena with the long-term goal of joining the Big Eight, and claimed our 25k enrollment was too big for the MAC.

NIU was run by the equivalent of drunken message boarders back then.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing. I can only imagine the reaction here if someone started an 'NIU to the MWC thread,' but that basically is what happened ~30 years ago.

I remember reading some articles about this in the mid-80's. There was something else happening in the MAC that was ticking them off as well, but I can't recall. I probably have the articles saved somewhere.

(04-05-2024 09:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Here's our AD's comments at the time:

"We have closer ties to Chicago, where the rest of the MAC has no recognition. I`m sure some of them are happy to see us leave.”

"As one of the nation`s 40 largest universities, Northern Illinois should be more competitive, with more appeal to the Chicago market. That couldn`t be done from our position on the western fringe of the MAC."

The administration also announced goals of expanding 31k-seat Huskie Stadium and a new basketball arena with the long-term goal of joining the Big Eight, and claimed our 25k enrollment was too big for the MAC.

NIU was run by the equivalent of drunken message boarders back then.

Northern Illinois's open talk of joining the Big 8 someday was silly, and leaving the MAC was a huge mistake. (The Huskies went 9-2 a few years after they left but did not play in a bowl game because they were an independent and no one would take them.)

There was a bit more going on, though.

The struggle by some MAC members to meet Division I-A attendance requirements in the early 1980s led to a lot of acrimony among members, including rumors of an exodus by some members of the MAC to separate themselves from the schools struggling to meet attendance requirements. This saga cumulated in a 1984-85 effort to expel Eastern Michigan.

Assuming EMU would be expelled and that they'd only have to play eight conference games in 1985, Northern Illinois scheduled three Big Ten teams in nonconference play on their 11-game schedule. When EMU survived the expulsion effort, the MAC went back to a nine-game conference schedule.

Northern Illinois balked. They wanted to keep their Big Ten games. So, they refused to play at Kent State. The MAC's commissioner, Jim Lessig, had to step in and talk NIU into paying for Texas-El Paso to visit Kent State so the Flashes could play out an 11-game schedule.

With bad blood all around, Northern Illinois decided to leave the MAC after the 1985 football season. Lessig made fun of them on their way out. "I think Northern Illinois made a mistake," he said. "You have to question the wisdom of their move when you see independent teams struggling to get back into conferences across the country. This is not sour grapes, but when Northern joined the conference, we were hoping for more media exposure in Chicago. It never happened, except for a few SportsVision telecasts of NIU games with other conference teams."

My source on this is a great Reddit post that appears well researched.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/8t...cision_to/

Pretty sure CUSA 2003-4 can make the same claim… let’s see…

(04-06-2024 12:44 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  Pretty sure CUSA 2003-4 can make the same claim… let’s see…

Never mind… I re re reread the topic

(04-05-2024 09:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:38 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 04:29 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  That's pretty remarkable. Delusion ran rampant in NIU's administration when leaving the MAC.

Yeah, what were the reasons behind that? Moving from the MAC to (eventually) the Big West was, uh, an interesting path.

Here's our AD's comments at the time:

"We have closer ties to Chicago, where the rest of the MAC has no recognition. I`m sure some of them are happy to see us leave.”

"As one of the nation`s 40 largest universities, Northern Illinois should be more competitive, with more appeal to the Chicago market. That couldn`t be done from our position on the western fringe of the MAC."

The administration also announced goals of expanding 31k-seat Huskie Stadium and a new basketball arena with the long-term goal of joining the Big Eight, and claimed our 25k enrollment was too big for the MAC.

NIU was run by the equivalent of drunken message boarders back then.

Well they also didn't expect to lose 40% of their enrollment in the next 30 years.

(04-06-2024 09:27 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 10:53 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  Had Long Beach State kept playing football beyond 1991, they would have also remained in the Big West in 1995-1996.

My guess is they would have been part of the WAC, Mountain West, and easily been included in the eventual PAC-2 expansion.

They might have even kept the PAC-12/10 alive because instead of San Diego State and SMU being talked about as replacements when USC/UCLA left for the Big Ten, it would have been SDSU and LBSU in order to re-capture the Southern California TV market.

The real break point for Big West football would have been the post-1999 direction of the WAC. If Pacific, Cal State Fullerton, and Long Beach State were still playing football it's probably not enough to save Big West football.

2000
Big West (8) - Arkansas St, Boise St, Idaho, Long Beach St, New Mexico St, North Texas, Pacific, Utah State
WAC (9) - TCU, SMU, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, Fresno St, San Jose St, Hawaii, Nevada
Sun Belt - non-football

2001
Big West (8) - Arkansas St, Boise St, Idaho, Long Beach St, New Mexico St, North Texas, Pacific, Utah State
WAC (10) - Louisiana Tech, TCU, SMU, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, Fresno St, San Jose St, Hawaii, Nevada
Sun Belt - non-football; MTSU, Louisiana, ULM play as independents

2005
Big West - non-football
WAC (12)
Coastal - Hawaii, Fresno State, San Jose State, Long Beach St, Pacific, CSU Fullerton
Interior - Louisiana Tech, New Mexico St, Utah State, Boise St, Idaho, Nevada
Sun Belt (8) - Arkansas St, North Texas, MTSU, Louisiana, ULM, FIU, FAU, Troy St

The next big question would be if the WAC's "Final 5" (Idaho, NMSU, CSUF, Pacific, Long Beach St) would be able to hold on past 2012. Louisiana Tech and UTSA still bail for C-USA. Texas State to the Sun Belt probably still happens unless if enough schools like Montana jump to FBS via the WAC.

Even if no one else joins them by 2013, it's probably enough to make FBS independent life comfortable indefinitely. The WAC adds Denver, Seattle, and UT-Arlington as non-football member and keeps on trucking. It's possible BYU might even join them instead of the WCC while an FBS independent. Without Denver, the Summit League likely winds up with Utah Valley and UTRGV. Grand Canyon, Tarleton State, Dixie State/Utah Tech, and Cal Baptist whither away in Division II.

C-USA would still grab NMSU as a full member effective 2023. Pacific joins the WCC and becomes a football-only member of C-USA. Long Beach State, Idaho, and Cal State Fullerton enter into a similar arrangement with the Big West, which also takes non-football Seattle joins the Mountain West as a non-football offset to Hawaii. UT-Arlington joins the Summit, ending the WAC.

The Pac-2 then are faced with the same decision as to either take the entire Mountain West or to try to part it out for a "best-of-the rest" league. If they choose the latter the Mountain West raids C-USA football to restock.

Pac-12
Coastal - Washington State, Oregon State, San Diego St, Fresno St, Boise St, UNLV
Central - UTSA, North Texas, Colorado State, New Mexico, Memphis, Tulane

Mountain West
Western - Hawaii/Seattle, Nevada, San Jose State, Pacific, CSU Fullerton, Long Beach St
Mountain - Utah St, Idaho, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico St, UTEP

Big West (non-football)
UC San Diego, UC Irvine, UC Davis, UC Riverside, UC Santa Barbara, Cal Poly, CSU Northridge, CSU Bakersfield, Hawaii

Northridge State joined the Big West in 2001.

But could they still survived if these schools kept football?

Santa Clara
Northridge State
UC-Santa Barbara
CSU-LA
San Jose State as Long Beach State goes to the WAC than to the MWC.
Fullerton State
Pacific
UC-Davis gets an invite sooner.
Sacramento State
UC-San Diego

Then I would look at schools like?
Hawaii as a full member
Cal Poly Pomona if they kept football.
UC-Irvine if they add football
CSU-San Bernardino
Chico State
Sonoma State
Southern Oregon if they stayed in D2, and stay with their old conference mates who are now in the MWC and Big West.
Utah Tech in the future

(04-06-2024 06:27 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 09:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  The Missouri Valley had an interesting history. They have members in all the P4 and 2 G5 (3 if you count MAC soccer affiliates).
4 Big 12 (ISU, KU, KSU, OK St.), 2 SEC (OU, MU) and 2 Big 10 (NU, Iowa-only 2 years) were members prior to the Big 8 splitoff in 1928, although Oklahoma St. stayed until 1956.
2 more Big 12 (Houston-51-59, Cincinnati-57-70), an ACC (Louisville-63-75), CUSA (NMSU 70-83), 4 AAC (UNT 57-75, Tulsa 35-96, Memphis-68-73, Wichita 49-2017) were members at various times in the peak years of 50s to mid 70s.
They also have former members in 8 different non-fbs conferences in Division I, II and III.

The Southern Conference spawned the SEC in 1933 and ACC in 1953, so they have teams in all the p4 and 2 G5. They have 10 SEC schools as former members, 8 ACC, 1 Big 12 (WVU), 1 Big 10 (MD), 1 AAC (Tulane) and, as I'm sure the OP knows, 3 Sun Belt-Marshall, GSU, App. St.

Living on the east coast, I had no idea the Missouri Valley had that history. Great info.

Looking at the MVC timeline, I'm surprised Tulsa was able to attach itself to the CUSA-to-AAC group of schools. They stayed in the MVC long after all of the other current FBS schools left.

The five most recent FBS schools who left were Cincinnati (1970), Memphis (1973), Texas State (1975), Louisville (1975), New Mexico State (1983)...then Tulsa long after (1996).

Tulsa was playing Division I-A football in the MVC when no one else was. The rest of the conference had either dropped football or were playing in I-AA. Tulsa's schedule was suspect as a result, and had a 10-1 team miss a bowl game one year. They chose to stay in Division I-A, even playing as an independent for a few years.

When the WAC expanded upon the demise of the SWC, Tulsa was able to get into that. Once they were in a FBS conference, they were able to stay at that level, eventually moving to C-USA and then the AAC. They're not in Texas, but close enough to it and recruit it heavily.