(03-28-2024 08:42 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  NIU had an enrollment over 25k students back in 2004-2006. It's rather alarming that our total enrollment has declined 10k students. John Peters was the last good university president. I remember when he was one of the top 3 candidates for the University of Tennessee president vacancy.

Then for some reason NIU had an infatuation with all things university of Idaho. We were playing them in football and hired their then vice president (Doug Baker).

I feel gypped that I graduated in 1999 and only got to experience John E. La Tourette and just missed the John Peters era.

Right now, NIU unfortunately is in a bad place. Probably the lowest it's been for a while. We got real complacent, when the base we were working off of was just acceptable. Sure we made the most of our experience. But it was a lot better then, than it is now.

Radish, I am proud that you have a lot of pride for the school. But it was a different place back then. I'm not saying it was the Ivy League or Big Ten. But we had potential and things seemed like the were heading in the right direction. I and many others are only concerned over what it's become.

(03-29-2024 01:05 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  Right now, NIU unfortunately is in a bad place. Probably the lowest it's been for a while. We got real complacent, when the base we were working off of was just acceptable. Sure we made the most of our experience. But it was a lot better then, than it is now.

Radish, I am proud that you have a lot of pride for the school. But it was a different place back then. I'm not saying it was the Ivy League or Big Ten. But we had potential and things seemed like the were heading in the right direction. I and many others are only concerned over what it's become.

I'm not 100% certain when you were at NIU but I was there 1993-99 (no...I didn't become a doctor...)

And we sucked hard in football but we did have the TJ Lux NCAA tournament year, but otherwise we were basically a good volleyball school and we had a lot of fun tailgating and watching LeShon Johnson for awhile and we saw the opening of Starbusters before expanded and became the new Otto's and we saw Otto's in its prime and we saw Amnesia before it became Molly's and we saw Molly's when it expanded its footprint and it was still kind of an Irish bar and you could sometimes sneak in through the Bottle Store if you knew Big Doug well enough (I did) and we one time threw the goal posts in the East Lagoon and I went ice skating with a chick on the East Lagoon and we fell down and made out and then I found out later she was dating a Marine so that didn't go so well and well...we weren't exactly a sport powerhouse and we kind of muddled around the MCC and the Big West or something but it was fun and we got drunk and played the original Playstation mostly EA Sports Hockey when they still allowed blood when you laid a guy out and the fvcking Blackhawks were almost unbeatable. Fvck the Blackhawks and stupid Jeremy Roenick and the University Plaza wasn't a luxury apartment and we still had tugs even though I never went but could hear it from the Plaza but in the summer when I had an apartment the Pikes would have an afterhours kegger and it didn't matter who you were, you could still go and one time I was super drunk and was trading Blazin' Saddles lines with some random black dude who thought the movie was amazing and hilarious and I hooked up with a slightly chubby girl.

But yeah...we had fun and our sports were super mediocre and we didn't seem to care...we just liked going and having fun.

(03-29-2024 01:19 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 01:05 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  Right now, NIU unfortunately is in a bad place. Probably the lowest it's been for a while. We got real complacent, when the base we were working off of was just acceptable. Sure we made the most of our experience. But it was a lot better then, than it is now.

Radish, I am proud that you have a lot of pride for the school. But it was a different place back then. I'm not saying it was the Ivy League or Big Ten. But we had potential and things seemed like the were heading in the right direction. I and many others are only concerned over what it's become.

I'm not 100% certain when you were at NIU but I was there 1993-99 (no...I didn't become a doctor...)

And we sucked hard in football but we did have the TJ Lux NCAA tournament year, but otherwise we were basically a good volleyball school and we had a lot of fun tailgating and watching LeShon Johnson for awhile and we saw the opening of Starbusters before expanded and became the new Otto's and we saw Otto's in its prime and we saw Amnesia before it became Molly's and we saw Molly's when it expanded its footprint and it was still kind of an Irish bar and you could sometimes sneak in through the Bottle Store if you knew Big Doug well enough (I did) and we one time threw the goal posts in the East Lagoon and I went ice skating with a chick on the East Lagoon and we fell down and made out and then I found out later she was dating a Marine so that didn't go so well and well...we weren't exactly a sport powerhouse and we kind of muddled around the MCC and the Big West or something but it was fun and we got drunk and played the original Playstation mostly EA Sports Hockey when they still allowed blood when you laid a guy out and the fvcking Blackhawks were almost unbeatable. Fvck the Blackhawks and stupid Jeremy Roenick and the University Plaza wasn't a luxury apartment and we still had tugs even though I never went but could hear it from the Plaza but in the summer when I had an apartment the Pikes would have an afterhours kegger and it didn't matter who you were, you could still go and one time I was super drunk and was trading Blazin' Saddles lines with some random black dude who thought the movie was amazing and hilarious and I hooked up with a slightly chubby girl.

But yeah...we had fun and our sports were super mediocre and we didn't seem to care...we just liked going and having fun.

Haha. I was there from 06-11, because I also liked to party. Your story is very similar to many I've had. No regrets. Plus if they weren't so interesting, what would you have to remember and share? I want to say my time at NIU came when social media was merely a novelty that served as a supplement to life, instead of the principal focus of life it is now.

With that being said, life and mistakes happened. It wasn't recorded, we forgot about it the next day or week and anonymity prevailed. We could shut the Internet off by closing our laptops and computers. Smart phones weren't really a thing till our super senior years.

But yeah, we let in randos to our houses for $5 a cup and filled them all they could drink. My collegiate experience was identical to every movie about college ever. We can trade stories in person over a beer. It was like the US Navy vs China, think less ships but greater tonnage. We lived young and spontaneously. It was safe too, we lived in a protective bubble where we were mostly existing outside of risk and danger.

(03-28-2024 07:45 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:29 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:26 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  

(03-27-2024 07:07 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  'How would NIU substantially raise enrollment? I'm still part of the biggest freshman class (2022). They don't have the funds to increase class sections, renovate dorms, or pay their instructors enough. Our department keeps getting classes slashed despite the CS student body being 950+ students."

Once again, more students = more money to open more dorm rooms, and the apartments are already there and waiting. Scale back up over several years just as they have at UIC, ISU etc.. It starts with adding an additional 400-800 new freshman on to the norm next fall, which Freeman has failed to do year after year. Her plan is not working.

Every point everyone makes on each of these enrollment threads screams NEW LEADERSHIP and NEW DIRECTION. I really wish alumni were more vocal about that, seems like most are very unhappy with the current direction of the university. I emailed the trustees a few months back as mentioned on this platform. I got zero response from any of them, but a friend on the inside said it caused a bit of chatter in the ranks. Feel free to join in.

You were part of the largest freshman class of 2,200? From 1984 to 1993 each and every single freshman class well over 3,000, including 3,900+ in 1985. So, no, you weren’t in the largest freshman class.

I thin he means the freshman class that came into NIU in the year 2022. I have no idea how many were in the incoming class.

Yeah, I re-read his post and agree with that, so I edited my response, but, no way 2022 is our largest freshman class. Not even close.

Sorry, I meant the largest freshman class since 2014. The freshman class of 2023 is smaller than 2022.

(03-29-2024 04:33 PM)radishbeet Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:45 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:29 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:26 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  

(03-27-2024 07:07 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  'How would NIU substantially raise enrollment? I'm still part of the biggest freshman class (2022). They don't have the funds to increase class sections, renovate dorms, or pay their instructors enough. Our department keeps getting classes slashed despite the CS student body being 950+ students."

Once again, more students = more money to open more dorm rooms, and the apartments are already there and waiting. Scale back up over several years just as they have at UIC, ISU etc.. It starts with adding an additional 400-800 new freshman on to the norm next fall, which Freeman has failed to do year after year. Her plan is not working.

Every point everyone makes on each of these enrollment threads screams NEW LEADERSHIP and NEW DIRECTION. I really wish alumni were more vocal about that, seems like most are very unhappy with the current direction of the university. I emailed the trustees a few months back as mentioned on this platform. I got zero response from any of them, but a friend on the inside said it caused a bit of chatter in the ranks. Feel free to join in.

You were part of the largest freshman class of 2,200? From 1984 to 1993 each and every single freshman class well over 3,000, including 3,900+ in 1985. So, no, you weren’t in the largest freshman class.

I thin he means the freshman class that came into NIU in the year 2022. I have no idea how many were in the incoming class.

Yeah, I re-read his post and agree with that, so I edited my response, but, no way 2022 is our largest freshman class. Not even close.

Sorry, I meant the largest freshman class since 2014. The freshman class of 2023 is smaller than 2022.

That's disappointing. When I was back at NIU, we were at 25K. Going neck and neck with ISU. I used to give a pass, because of COVID, lack of state funding and the deterioration of DeKalb. But it's not like Chicago and Bloomington/Normal, and Edwardsville are blooming metropolises. They too suffer from a lack of state funding, yet those universities are building up and thriving.

I keep hearing from many alumni on here, who went there in the 90s, 80s and 70s that many buildings haven't had facelifts since their times. I'll give credit that many other things have changed. But for the most part, we are lagging community colleges nowadays.

Current leadership should be held responsible for the decay. I am done with season tickets, donations for now.

(03-29-2024 07:14 PM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 04:33 PM)radishbeet Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:45 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:29 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 07:26 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  You were part of the largest freshman class of 2,200? From 1984 to 1993 each and every single freshman class well over 3,000, including 3,900+ in 1985. So, no, you weren’t in the largest freshman class.

I thin he means the freshman class that came into NIU in the year 2022. I have no idea how many were in the incoming class.

Yeah, I re-read his post and agree with that, so I edited my response, but, no way 2022 is our largest freshman class. Not even close.

Sorry, I meant the largest freshman class since 2014. The freshman class of 2023 is smaller than 2022.

That's disappointing. When I was back at NIU, we were at 25K. Going neck and neck with ISU. I used to give a pass, because of COVID, lack of state funding and the deterioration of DeKalb. But it's not like Chicago and Bloomington/Normal, and Edwardsville are blooming metropolises. They too suffer from a lack of state funding, yet those universities are building up and thriving.

I keep hearing from many alumni on here, who went there in the 90s, 80s and 70s that many buildings haven't had facelifts since their times. I'll give credit that many other things have changed. But for the most part, we are lagging community colleges nowadays.

UIC has 800 million in endowment. They have a medical center among other things. Surrounding area is a wee bit different than DeKalb. Not top mention commuters.

This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

(03-29-2024 11:12 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

Yes enrollment was down prior to Freeman as it was at many IL colleges, but she clearly promised to turn that around when taking office, just as the ISU and UIC presidents did around the same time. ISU and UIC presidents have kept there promise, Freeman on the other hand is riding NIU into the ground.

Freeman's gameplan:
https://foxillinois.com/news/local/niu-l...-fall-2023

Freeman's failure:
https://northernstar.info/107952/news/un...t-changes/

Why stick up for this trainwreck? NIU needs fresh leadership and a new game plan ASAP.

(03-29-2024 01:19 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 01:05 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  Right now, NIU unfortunately is in a bad place. Probably the lowest it's been for a while. We got real complacent, when the base we were working off of was just acceptable. Sure we made the most of our experience. But it was a lot better then, than it is now.

Radish, I am proud that you have a lot of pride for the school. But it was a different place back then. I'm not saying it was the Ivy League or Big Ten. But we had potential and things seemed like the were heading in the right direction. I and many others are only concerned over what it's become.

I'm not 100% certain when you were at NIU but I was there 1993-99 (no...I didn't become a doctor...)

And we sucked hard in football but we did have the TJ Lux NCAA tournament year, but otherwise we were basically a good volleyball school and we had a lot of fun tailgating and watching LeShon Johnson for awhile and we saw the opening of Starbusters before expanded and became the new Otto's and we saw Otto's in its prime and we saw Amnesia before it became Molly's and we saw Molly's when it expanded its footprint and it was still kind of an Irish bar and you could sometimes sneak in through the Bottle Store if you knew Big Doug well enough (I did) and we one time threw the goal posts in the East Lagoon and I went ice skating with a chick on the East Lagoon and we fell down and made out and then I found out later she was dating a Marine so that didn't go so well and well...we weren't exactly a sport powerhouse and we kind of muddled around the MCC and the Big West or something but it was fun and we got drunk and played the original Playstation mostly EA Sports Hockey when they still allowed blood when you laid a guy out and the fvcking Blackhawks were almost unbeatable. Fvck the Blackhawks and stupid Jeremy Roenick and the University Plaza wasn't a luxury apartment and we still had tugs even though I never went but could hear it from the Plaza but in the summer when I had an apartment the Pikes would have an afterhours kegger and it didn't matter who you were, you could still go and one time I was super drunk and was trading Blazin' Saddles lines with some random black dude who thought the movie was amazing and hilarious and I hooked up with a slightly chubby girl.

But yeah...we had fun and our sports were super mediocre and we didn't seem to care...we just liked going and having fun.

This is awesome.

(03-30-2024 01:14 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 11:12 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

Yes enrollment was down prior to Freeman as it was at many IL colleges, but she clearly promised to turn that around when taking office, just as the ISU and UIC presidents did around the same time. ISU and UIC presidents have kept there promise, Freeman on the other hand is riding NIU into the ground.

Freeman's gameplan:
https://foxillinois.com/news/local/niu-l...-fall-2023

Freeman's failure:
https://northernstar.info/107952/news/un...t-changes/

Why stick up for this trainwreck? NIU needs fresh leadership and a new game plan ASAP.

She sounds clueless. Get her outta here.

(03-29-2024 11:12 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

Poor financial decisions at the State level has a trickle down affect. Money moved from higher education to fill other holes in the budget. Decl8n8ng population in Illinois also reducing tax revenue.

(03-30-2024 01:14 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 11:12 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

Yes enrollment was down prior to Freeman as it was at many IL colleges, but she clearly promised to turn that around when taking office, just as the ISU and UIC presidents did around the same time. ISU and UIC presidents have kept there promise, Freeman on the other hand is riding NIU into the ground.

Freeman's gameplan:
https://foxillinois.com/news/local/niu-l...-fall-2023

Freeman's failure:
https://northernstar.info/107952/news/un...t-changes/

Why stick up for this trainwreck? NIU needs fresh leadership and a new game plan ASAP.

I am simply pointing out that this is not her mess as some seem to think. We can go round and round on why the downfall started, continued and can’t seem to be fixed. But when it started is not a debate. It’s 15+ years in the making. I also seem to remember no one liking Baker and the crap he did. I don’t have the answers, but do know that there is a correlation to student population, demographics, entrance qualifications and academics.

And again, UICis not NIU. Similarities stop at being in the state of Illinois. Also pretty sure ISU has more to offer, didn’t let everyone and anyone in, and academic standards and student quality has surpassed NIU. I think looking at breakdowns over the years tell the story.

And perhaps even a 2008 shooting at NIU on the national scene was a factor that added to a turning on campus, one made worse by flight from Illinois, politics, parental influence, out of state attractiveness, student social life prospectus.

I don’t know the vision, don’t agree with stuff the leaders are doing there and other schools. But it’s not going to change, not going to be a school that is going to attract the middle, upper middle class suburbanite of years ago. That’s come and gone. Unless maybe about 250 million is invested in the campus and town infrastructure and business. Then hope you get them back.

There is no doubt in my mind that the 2008 shooting is a contributing factor in the downward trend of attendance. And Doug Baker made it worse




quote='randyfensfanclub1' pid='19548371' dateline='1711936084']

(03-30-2024 01:14 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 11:12 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

Yes enrollment was down prior to Freeman as it was at many IL colleges, but she clearly promised to turn that around when taking office, just as the ISU and UIC presidents did around the same time. ISU and UIC presidents have kept there promise, Freeman on the other hand is riding NIU into the ground.

Freeman's gameplan:
https://foxillinois.com/news/local/niu-l...-fall-2023

Freeman's failure:
https://northernstar.info/107952/news/un...t-changes/

Why stick up for this trainwreck? NIU needs fresh leadership and a new game plan ASAP.

I am simply pointing out that this is not her mess as some seem to think. We can go round and round on why the downfall started, continued and can’t seem to be fixed. But when it started is not a debate. It’s 15+ years in the making. I also seem to remember no one liking Baker and the crap he did. I don’t have the answers, but do know that there is a correlation to student population, demographics, entrance qualifications and academics.

And again, UICis not NIU. Similarities stop at being in the state of Illinois. Also pretty sure ISU has more to offer, didn’t let everyone and anyone in, and academic standards and student quality has surpassed NIU. I think looking at breakdowns over the years tell the story.

And perhaps even a 2008 shooting at NIU on the national scene was a factor that added to a turning on campus, one made worse by flight from Illinois, politics, parental influence, out of state attractiveness, student social life prospectus.

I don’t know the vision, don’t agree with stuff the leaders are doing there and other schools. But it’s not going to change, not going to be a school that is going to attract the middle, upper middle class suburbanite of years ago. That’s come and gone. Unless maybe about 250 million is invested in the campus and town infrastructure and business. Then hope you get them back.
[/quote]

(03-31-2024 09:01 PM)MPython Wrote:  There is no doubt in my mind that the 2008 shooting is a contributing factor in the downward trend of attendance. And Doug Baker made it worse




quote='randyfensfanclub1' pid='19548371' dateline='1711936084']

(03-30-2024 01:14 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(03-29-2024 11:12 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  This is older chart, but enrollment has went down every year 2009-2018.

So let's not act like this was something that is of late.

That's 2 school presidents ago.

Fall UG G LAW TOTAL TOTAL FTE
2009 18,277 5,838 309 24,424 20,022
2010 17,886 5,633 331 23,850 19,592
2011 17,306 5,365 319 22,990 18,817
2012 16,552 4,984 333 21,869 18,033
2013 15,814 5,020 304 21,138 17,324
2014 15,435 4,900 276 20,611 16,940
2015 15,027 4,850 253 20,130 16,502
2016 14,079 4,672 264 19,015 15,712
2017 13,454 4,319 269 18,042 14,982
2018 12,788 4,121 260 17,169 14,352

Yes enrollment was down prior to Freeman as it was at many IL colleges, but she clearly promised to turn that around when taking office, just as the ISU and UIC presidents did around the same time. ISU and UIC presidents have kept there promise, Freeman on the other hand is riding NIU into the ground.

Freeman's gameplan:
https://foxillinois.com/news/local/niu-l...-fall-2023

Freeman's failure:
https://northernstar.info/107952/news/un...t-changes/

Why stick up for this trainwreck? NIU needs fresh leadership and a new game plan ASAP.

I am simply pointing out that this is not her mess as some seem to think. We can go round and round on why the downfall started, continued and can’t seem to be fixed. But when it started is not a debate. It’s 15+ years in the making. I also seem to remember no one liking Baker and the crap he did. I don’t have the answers, but do know that there is a correlation to student population, demographics, entrance qualifications and academics.

And again, UICis not NIU. Similarities stop at being in the state of Illinois. Also pretty sure ISU has more to offer, didn’t let everyone and anyone in, and academic standards and student quality has surpassed NIU. I think looking at breakdowns over the years tell the story.

And perhaps even a 2008 shooting at NIU on the national scene was a factor that added to a turning on campus, one made worse by flight from Illinois, politics, parental influence, out of state attractiveness, student social life prospectus.

I don’t know the vision, don’t agree with stuff the leaders are doing there and other schools. But it’s not going to change, not going to be a school that is going to attract the middle, upper middle class suburbanite of years ago. That’s come and gone. Unless maybe about 250 million is invested in the campus and town infrastructure and business. Then hope you get them back.

[/quote]

2008 did something. No question about it. I was there for that and knew many of the victims.

But VT was able to grow.

https://history.unirel.vt.edu/students_a...ments.html

With that being said, it's not just one silver bullet that's weighing this school down. It's compounding things and continuously bad decisions. We need to stop making excuses and fix this thing.