(03-19-2024 12:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:29 PM)OrangemanRich Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Clemson filing a legal case is sad but not surprising. I think the ACC will eventually prevail in court, and the total exit fee would be very high.

The immediate task for Phillips is to prevent further challenges, particularly by UNC and/or NCSU. So what should Phillips do?

The ACC should impose some penalty for the challenging schools, but I don’t know how.

It seemed w/ the FSU lawsuit (filed in FL), the ACC raced to file their own in NC first.
Did the same occur w/ Clemson?
Does it matter?

I expect the ACC will file a countersuit soon. That alone may not be enough to deter further challenges.

The ACC filed a counter lawsuit. This is a good move, showing the ACC was expecting Clemson’s challenge.

(03-20-2024 05:54 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:29 PM)OrangemanRich Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Clemson filing a legal case is sad but not surprising. I think the ACC will eventually prevail in court, and the total exit fee would be very high.

The immediate task for Phillips is to prevent further challenges, particularly by UNC and/or NCSU. So what should Phillips do?

The ACC should impose some penalty for the challenging schools, but I don’t know how.

It seemed w/ the FSU lawsuit (filed in FL), the ACC raced to file their own in NC first.
Did the same occur w/ Clemson?
Does it matter?

I expect the ACC will file a countersuit soon. That alone may not be enough to deter further challenges.

The ACC filed a counter lawsuit. This is a good move, showing the ACC was expecting Clemson’s challenge.

It's standard.

(03-19-2024 11:38 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Was the GORs necessary to get the ACCN going? If discovery finds out no it was not, then Swofford misrepresented the ACC, which it is starting to look to be the case.

I know that ESPN made the SEC establish a GoR before launching their network. So I expect they would have done the same for the ACC.

Some may find this relevant: Texas forfeited their media rights payment for the final year of their Big XII GoR. Yes, ESPN agreed to "make them whole" by giving them a bonus for moving to the SEC, but that doesn't change the fact that the Longhorns did not get out of the last year of their GoR!

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2024/...r-gor.html

#ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm

UNC board member sure is starting to talk like the FSU board. Quotes from UNC board of trustees chair John Preyer:

"I think that what Clemson is doing is 100 percent proof positive that a significant portion of the membership of the conference is unhappy. I don't see how it is in anyone's interest for the ACC leadership to try and browbeat its member schools from getting access to information and being transparent. And that's kind of the case Clemson is making.

"I think this shows that what is supposed to be a member-based organization is not being led in a way that represents the best interests of all the members, but instead, it's really representing the bottom tier of the membership at the expense of the top tier, which is why Clemson and Florida State are doing what they're doing. I think that's just obvious"


As I said when FSU filed suit, that fanbase should be careful how forceful they are. Wouldn't be surprised to see unc leaving as well.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(03-21-2024 10:15 AM)Ragu Wrote:  UNC board member sure is starting to talk like the FSU board. Quotes from UNC board of trustees chair John Preyer:

"I think that what Clemson is doing is 100 percent proof positive that a significant portion of the membership of the conference is unhappy. I don't see how it is in anyone's interest for the ACC leadership to try and browbeat its member schools from getting access to information and being transparent. And that's kind of the case Clemson is making.

"I think this shows that what is supposed to be a member-based organization is not being led in a way that represents the best interests of all the members, but instead, it's really representing the bottom tier of the membership at the expense of the top tier, which is why Clemson and Florida State are doing what they're doing. I think that's just obvious"


As I said when FSU filed suit, that fanbase should be careful how forceful they are. Wouldn't be surprised to see unc leaving as well.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

UNC is conflicted far more than Clemson. The Tar Heels have box seats in the ACC; if they switch conferences, they know they'll have to sit with the common folk.

UNPOPULAR OPINION: it wouldn't be the worst thing if the ACC were to lose UNC*, UVA, and Duke - as long as those losses come early enough. That would change things radically. The remaining schools would get more money (I doubt the total payout drops much - those guys aren't exactly football powers - but there would be fewer mouths to feed). All of a sudden, the conference becomes way more football-centric, too. I don't see how those 3 would leave before FSU and Clemson, but it could change the ACC culture enough to save it from itself, IMO.

One plausible alternative is that the other 5 M7 teams leave first, THEN UNC and UVA exit anyway. That's the Doomsday scenario which is shouted by most FSU, Clemson, and Big XII fans. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it's plausible...

* I should clarify: UNC is quite valuable - on par with FSU and Clemson - but too often pick the wrong side in ACC decisions (IMO). Perhaps I should've said "lose UVA and Duke" -- then, maybe, UNC becomes a better team player, too?

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

It's not political theater. Some of you are in for a rude awakening...

The networks control college sports now. The P2 will get who they want. FSU and Clemson will be part of that

I'd bet UNC and others will be too. I'll take a board chair's words over message board guy from the unc perspective

But if they want to be relegated down, then they can have it.

The schools wanting to compete who are wanted by the P2 aren't going to sit back and let teams they are competing with go up 40-60 million a year on them

The ACC accepted a diminished position behind the P2. They know where this is going. The acc and big 12 are getting what they can for the teams who don't make the p2.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

Mark .......... Clemson's move is not about "appeasing" fans. Clemson's administration (President and BOT), athletic department, and booster club are now and have been for several years in lock step with each other when it comes to protecting and enhancing Clemson football specifically and Clemson athletics in general. The new CFP deal that officially relegates the ACC to an M2 status as well as increasing the widening revenue gap was the last straw.

(03-21-2024 08:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Some may find this relevant: Texas forfeited their media rights payment for the final year of their Big XII GoR. Yes, ESPN agreed to "make them whole" by giving them a bonus for moving to the SEC, but that doesn't change the fact that the Longhorns did not get out of the last year of their GoR!

https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2024/...r-gor.html

#ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm

Exactly, great find. The Big 12 didn't tear up its grant of rights and let OU and Texas out, they just let Texas and Oklahoma out after they made the Big 12 and Fox whole. The Big 12 signed a new grant of rights that kicks in starting 2025.

(03-21-2024 11:12 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 10:15 AM)Ragu Wrote:  UNC board member sure is starting to talk like the FSU board. Quotes from UNC board of trustees chair John Preyer:

"I think that what Clemson is doing is 100 percent proof positive that a significant portion of the membership of the conference is unhappy. I don't see how it is in anyone's interest for the ACC leadership to try and browbeat its member schools from getting access to information and being transparent. And that's kind of the case Clemson is making.

"I think this shows that what is supposed to be a member-based organization is not being led in a way that represents the best interests of all the members, but instead, it's really representing the bottom tier of the membership at the expense of the top tier, which is why Clemson and Florida State are doing what they're doing. I think that's just obvious"


As I said when FSU filed suit, that fanbase should be careful how forceful they are. Wouldn't be surprised to see unc leaving as well.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

UNC is conflicted far more than Clemson. The Tar Heels have box seats in the ACC; if they switch conferences, they know they'll have to sit with the common folk.

UNPOPULAR OPINION: it wouldn't be the worst thing if the ACC were to lose UNC*, UVA, and Duke - as long as those losses come early enough. That would change things radically. The remaining schools would get more money (I doubt the total payout drops much - those guys aren't exactly football powers - but there would be fewer mouths to feed). All of a sudden, the conference becomes way more football-centric, too. I don't see how those 3 would leave before FSU and Clemson, but it could change the ACC culture enough to save it from itself, IMO.

One plausible alternative is that the other 5 M7 teams leave first, THEN UNC and UVA exit anyway. That's the Doomsday scenario which is shouted by most FSU, Clemson, and Big XII fans. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it's plausible...

* I should clarify: UNC is quite valuable - on par with FSU and Clemson - but too often pick the wrong side in ACC decisions (IMO). Perhaps I should've said "lose UVA and Duke" -- then, maybe, UNC becomes a better team player, too?

Actually that Doomsday scenario was for stated by the national media, from reporters like Brett McMurphy. Big XII fans initially didn't buy it and thought that the grant of rights would quiet things down, especially after Texas and Oklahoma did not fight it.

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24)...?

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

(03-21-2024 01:21 PM)Ragu Wrote:  It's not political theater. Some of you are in for a rude awakening...

The networks control college sports now. The P2 will get who they want. FSU and Clemson will be part of that...

...The acc and big 12 are getting what they can for the teams who don't make the p2.

(03-21-2024 02:11 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  Mark .......... Clemson's move is not about "appeasing" fans. Clemson's administration (President and BOT), athletic department, and booster club are now and have been for several years in lock step with each other when it comes to protecting and enhancing Clemson football specifically and Clemson athletics in general. The new CFP deal that officially relegates the ACC to an M2 status as well as increasing the widening revenue gap was the last straw.

Hold your horses - I wasn't saying that FSU and Clemson aren't serious about leaving (I'm confident they are). I was answering XLance's question about the timing of their lawsuits. Strategically, Clemson probably should've waited at least until the first hearings to see where things are going, but political pressure wouldn't allow them to wait.

I also agree that, at this point, there's no way the ACC will ever compete on equal footing with the SEC and B1G again. Those are the top 2 leagues, with the ACC and Big XII next, followed by the G5 leagues. Whether that means other ACC schools feel a need to jump - or do they accept the role of football underdogs and, occasionally, Cinderella, we'll have to wait and see. Most of the other ACC schools weresn't competing for national titles even when the playing field was level...

OTOH, the ACC and Big XII both must fight for a level basketball court, IMO!
They need something on which to hange their hats.

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

If the ACC's response to FSU is upheld .........
the ACC issued basically the same response to Clemson.
If the ACC's argument is recognized in the FSU hearing, it will be upheld in Pickens County too.

Why wouldn't Clemson wait so that they could adjust their claim?

(03-21-2024 04:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

If the ACC's response to FSU is upheld .........
the ACC issued basically the same response to Clemson.
If the ACC's argument is recognized in the FSU hearing, it will be upheld in Pickens County too.

Why wouldn't Clemson wait so that they could adjust their claim?

Buried in their pleadings is the reduction of Clemson's power to make a deal within the league. This means we are back to distribution and scheduling. I took that blurb to mean Clemson wanted the ability to be partially in and out like ND. We also are not privy to what may be going on behind the scenes of Big Thursday. If Big Thursday comes back and is not the final game of the regular season, Clemson will want control of the week before and after. Not necessarily a bye week, but control of who the other two teams are.

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

I agree with you. :)

When the SoCon formed in 21 you played who you scheduled in conference. When we went our two separate ways it stayed that way. Bama might play as many as 8 league games, and GT as few as 5 some years. NC State might play 6-7 and South Carolina 3-5. The winner was who had the most wins in conference. The round robin in the ACC did not come into being until 1970 in the ACC and about 1972 in the SEC.

Socially and culturally a round robin was not going to work in 20's, 30's, 40, 50's and 60's. We might be back at that point again. However the B10 and SEC are closing off OOC opportunities. From a Clemson administrator's perspective, they get nothing out of a trip to Durham, Boston, Syracuse, or Oakland. Palo Alto might be tolerable because it's Stanford, WF is tolerable because it's Winston-Salem - the north end of Clemson's natural range so to speak.

I don't think it's all about money. Money is key, money is important.

(03-21-2024 05:44 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

I agree with you. :)

The FSU suit is so poorly constructed it may be that Clemson concluded they could not hide behind it and claim to certain folks that they had a ball in the air with FSU. FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC State, and probably Miami have extremely strong, or at least somewhat influential internal factions that don't want to be tied to the Northeast.

When the conference is flush with money, social differences are tough to see. When things tighten up old socio-economic cleavages show up again.

(03-21-2024 01:21 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Quote:Clemson has filed against the ACC in Pickens County, South Carolina, a source confirms to ESPN. This is the second lawsuit that the ACC faces, as Florida State and the ACC currently have dueling lawsuits.

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

It's not political theater. Some of you are in for a rude awakening...

The networks control college sports now. The P2 will get who they want. FSU and Clemson will be part of that

I'd bet UNC and others will be too. I'll take a board chair's words over message board guy from the unc perspective

But if they want to be relegated down, then they can have it.

The schools wanting to compete who are wanted by the P2 aren't going to sit back and let teams they are competing with go up 40-60 million a year on them

The ACC accepted a diminished position behind the P2. They know where this is going. The acc and big 12 are getting what they can for the teams who don't make the p2.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The networks have controlled college football since the 80's. C'mon now.

Clemson filed suit on the first day of the Big Dance. Pure political theatre. And it was lame.

The ACC accepted a diminished position? What were they supposed to do, form their own division?!?!

SHOW ME WHERE MEDIA MONEY = SUCCESS


and I'll point to Indiana, Rutgers, Minnesota, Nebraska, Maryland, Purdue (coach poached by Louisville), Miss State, Ole Miss, Vandy, South Carolina, Arkansas, aTm, Northwestern and the list goes on and on

Stop being a little brat and accept the fact your thirsty trustees (like ours) just want more and more money. It has nothing to do with on the field performance. Your school built themselves up from the ground up with MUCH less than they have now. Get over it and put your blue collar back on.

(03-21-2024 06:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:21 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:47 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  @PeteThamel

Updated: Sounds like more of the FSU litigation -- "It's not fair. We could make more elsewhere."

Nobody made Clemson or FSU sign those contracts or those assignments of media rights.

Why would they sue before the first ruling on Florida State's hearing (scheduled for 3/22/24).

I really makes no sense.

For the same reason I believe FSU sued: political theatre. The admins at those 2 schools want to appear proactive. Plus, it IS an election year, after all!

It's not political theater. Some of you are in for a rude awakening...

The networks control college sports now. The P2 will get who they want. FSU and Clemson will be part of that

I'd bet UNC and others will be too. I'll take a board chair's words over message board guy from the unc perspective

But if they want to be relegated down, then they can have it.

The schools wanting to compete who are wanted by the P2 aren't going to sit back and let teams they are competing with go up 40-60 million a year on them

The ACC accepted a diminished position behind the P2. They know where this is going. The acc and big 12 are getting what they can for the teams who don't make the p2.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The networks have controlled college football since the 80's. C'mon now.

Clemson filed suit on the first day of the Big Dance. Pure political theatre. And it was lame.

The ACC accepted a diminished position? What were they supposed to do, form their own division?!?!

SHOW ME WHERE MEDIA MONEY = SUCCESS


and I'll point to Indiana, Rutgers, Minnesota, Nebraska, Maryland, Purdue (coach poached by Louisville), Miss State, Ole Miss, Vandy, South Carolina, Arkansas, aTm, Northwestern and the list goes on and on

Stop being a little brat and accept the fact your thirsty trustees (like ours) just want more and more money. It has nothing to do with on the field performance. Your school built themselves up from the ground up with MUCH less than they have now. Get over it and put your blue collar back on.

Don't really care what the tobacco road crowd thinks. FSU and Clemson are getting out very soon. Honestly hope you guys go to the other power 2 conference, but it really doesn't matter. You will be a middle to lower level football program with no power in either one

Or you can stay in a diminished acc. Don't really give a damn. The difference wasn't ever 40-60 million a year like it will be now and into the future. The access wasn't as much of a difference either.

I do think you and your fanbase will be eating a lot of crow soon . People in charge/in power are saying things very different from the fans on here from UNC.

Will be quite funny to watch you guys backtrack after the hell you raised when Fsu said they are getting out ..and UNC does the same thing....

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